Fenny Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 Had a chat with a land owner friend who said he had plenty of crow showing on a strip of maize he had cut and he had put a bale hide out for me. Set out before first light and had plenty of crow coming in and the odd pigeon showing had a really good start to the day. Then I noticed a car drive past me on a nearby road it drove up and down 3 times . On the third occasion the vehicle stopped and a man came storming down the field and shouted you haven't got permission to shoot this field and if you don't **** off I will knock you out. I just could not believe it I told the man that he was trespassing and perhaps he should think about how he talks to people as he may come unstuck if he speaks to the wrong person like that ,with that he stormed off and drove off. About 20 minutes later a keeper friend of mine turned up and said he had a shoot tomorrow and the fields either side he would like to shoot . I chatted to him for 20 minutes and I said to him I would pack up and go on another permission which also had cut maize , I stated to him his under keeper needed to learn some manners and if he would have been polite earlier I would have packed up , has anyone experienced these sorts of incidents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsowatts Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 I had a similar incident a couple of years ago, I had (have) written permission from a farmer (tenant) and was about to set up to shoot when the keeper appeared and started on about me not having permission and telling me to ****** off. I called the farmer who appeared on the scene, I thought the farmer and keeper were going to come to blows. I stayed and shot and I have shot there on one more occasion, however I was left feeling very uncomfotable and have not been back there for the last two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team tractor Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 (edited) Yep. A farm my mate works on has a keeper that one day came storming up to us while we were pigeon shooting and telling us with hadn't permission . My mate rang his boss who told us to say #### off to the keeper as he had asked us to shoot . The keeper was passed the message and stormed off to the owner who told him to stay away from us My mates boss does not worry about his language lol. Edited December 19, 2015 by team tractor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 Yep many many years ago....similar scenario! he was very unpleasant, threatening and aggressive! But I stood my ground and he stomped off mumbling more threats!.........Some months later I found out the guy was removing a shotgun from his vehicle and the gun went off.....headshot he died instantly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 Keepers can be their own worst enemies at times and some treat neighbouring shooters as if they have no right to be shooting.Had a few run ins with some and they never seem to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 Out stalking once with a friend had an excited keeper shouting we where ruin the weeks game shoot. He stated the new shoot captain would sort us out and not stand for this deer stalking rubbish in the game season. Swore a lot at us I tried to explain we wouldn't disturb his shoot in 3 days time. He ******** I'm call the shoot captain to sort you out again tried to explain, he wouldn't listen he was slightly shocked as I asked the phone to him! Our initial formal meeting (planned for lunchtime) didn't go as he planned!!! Being polite cost nothing listen to others is also a useful skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 I've seen this no end of times. Mostly (in my experience) it seems to come down to a clash of interests between the keeper who is paying to run a shoot on the land and the farmer whose crops need protecting. It can be difficult and as some have said can lead to awkwardness. Where I've found myself in this position I have told whoever to go and speak to the landowner, and then as soon as they have gone I warn the landowner that they have incoming. I've found that provided you are in the right place and doing what you are supposed to be doing, the landowner will at the very least take your side, though you may have to move if the keeper/whoever can give a good reason for wanting you to. The comment about some keepers communications skills being somewhat lacking at times is very true though - I just adopt the line I take with anyone who is pushy or disagreeable, which is to discuss if I am in the wrong, or point them firmly toward whoever told me to do whatever it is they dont like (the landowner), on the basis that I will take my next instructions from that person and not Mr Angry. Slightly different to your situation Fenny, in so far as it was keeper to keeper business, but I think you did the right thing in speaking to the head man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Richo Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 If it's private land nothing to do with him tell him so what if they are shooting fields nearby there problem not yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Richo Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 If it's a tenant farmer it's a differant situation as they do not have the power to give you shooting rights on their farms as this is sold to the keeper so it's a no go. Generally the tenant farmers are allowed to use one gun but only for pest controll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipper Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 Fortunately i've only been in a very similar situ over 8 years ago. The neighbouring estate rent a couple of fields off my farmer friend. One night whilst out lamping for foxes in the farmers rhino, we were followed by a vehicle, it tail gated us to the point of almost making contact. We decided to pull over into the service yard of my mates farm. The following truck stops, out steps a very very angry hot headed chap. He storms over and literally from the point 'go' dishes out abuse. He accused us of being near his pens, etc etc. We told him to hold his horses, and explained the situ. and further explained to him my farmer friend knows of our presence. He was having non of it and decides to call the farmer. Bad decision. The farmer turns up (in his jim jams), not impressed by how we were treated by this under-keeper, tells us to go home and he'd handle it. Off we went, then a couple of days later, my farmer friend tells me, he has decided that was the last straw and he would not renew the lease next season. Apparently (i was told), this under-keeper has an attitude problem, and thought because 'they' were paying rent, they could call the shots. Idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 Had the same thing happen a couple of times. On one piece of land the result was that the estate next door was even refused permission to dog in. The farmer was so p##### he told me to shoot every pheasant on sight. The arrogance of some knows no bounds, to their own detriment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kelly Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 Seems to me that farmers/land owners and keepers are all their own worse enemies. Each one of them lives a solitary life and has a siege mentality. If they all learnt to communicate with each other a little bit they would all have easier lives. Quite funny seeing them constantly getting into battles over simple communications failures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team tractor Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 Although not a keeper I did have another guy ring me up and say " are you .....,? " " do you shoot .......?" " you don't no more as its my ground" Well I rang my mate who's rented the ground for 20 years and has all the rights in this case . He said that I'm to carry on shooting there and he's changed all the locks on the gates so the **** can't go anymore This idiot has done this to multiple shooters I've since found out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katzenjammer Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 Our permission owners kicked the syndicate that was on off their land for arrogance, lack of respect for the land, crops, livestock and their family. The hunt is also banned for the same reasons. Riding en masse and quadbiking over crops, damaging hedges and fences - the list was endless. Both have been informed that our small group of three are the preferred and only pest controllers. Needless to say the shooting syndicate were not very happy from the creation of an island in the lands they shot over and have done their best to get us into trouble. All has now backfired as they have now lost all the other lands roundabout and have been replaced by what seems to be a more caring syndicate. We have to thank the hunt however who chased a fox on to our permission yesterday which was duly dispatched by my mate. A few years ago I was strolling up the lane with the old farmer and his dog chatting on. The subject got on to the hunt and the syndicate and their lack of respect. I asked him if he thought I respected the land, livestock and families. He turned and said "let's put it this way, you would not be strolling up the lane with me on this summers day if we did not think that!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tadorna Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 And for every idiot keeper there is an idiot shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennett Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 Whilst I'm not advocating the way some of you have been approached, you have to remember that some keeper's, and especially young, low paid underkeepers live and die (metaphorically) by their results on a shoot day. Their boss has sunk huge amounts of money into the day, and a syndicate aren't going to be too happy if their day is short, they don't care why. Those few bad days can mean the difference between having a roof over your head or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 +1 for the last 2 comments Dunno wot u all do for jobs but how would u feel if ur entire years work was based on 10 or 20 days (possibly more on a commercial shoot). Aat this time of year with cover getting thin someone shooting inbetween 2 drives/middle of a beat WILL push birds off and could take days or weeks to get back to normal depending on how hard it is shot. Esp this year with the mild weather too. If the birds are not there n those few days goood chance keeper will loose his job, house, motor, kennels, kids to move school etc. While they don't help themselves at times it's not hard to see the pressure they can be under and so some shooter blasting away is all they need, but sometimes farmers can be just as ackward and make life difficult for shoots esp so if a tennant farmer as they get no benefit/cash from the shoot I had a similar experience many years ago as a boy, keeper caught me shoulder deep digging my ferrets out and gave me a real bollacking despite having permission and only using nets as probably only 13 so before i had a gun. Ended up working on the rearing field and most wknds as his keeper/helper while at school and become an underkeeper on that estate for him. It can be a high pressure job that is easily affected by so many other folk from dog walkers to antis so when u get fellow shooters making it harder posibly harder to take. I have been offered a bit of shooting with other game shoots on and always turn it down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 If the keeper has a problem with what your doing or where your doing it and comes over and explains why, then assuming he has a genuine reason to ask you not to shoot where you are, I for one would move immediately! If he comes over ranting, raving, abusive and threatening and I have the right to be there.....then he can whistle! Manners cost nothing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 I give the keeper a ring before I go, if he says not tonight josephine then that's it, I go elsewhere. He has kicked one of the previous Foxers off there that's why I've got it. Quite well justified too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 If the keeper has a problem with what your doing or where your doing it and comes over and explains why, then assuming he has a genuine reason to ask you not to shoot where you are, I for one would move immediately! If he comes over ranting, raving, abusive and threatening and I have the right to be there.....then he can whistle! Manners cost nothing! Totally agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat g Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 Whilst I'm not advocating the way some of you have been approached, you have to remember that some keeper's, and especially young, low paid underkeepers live and die (metaphorically) by their results on a shoot day. Their boss has sunk huge amounts of money into the day, and a syndicate aren't going to be too happy if their day is short, they don't care why. Those few bad days can mean the difference between having a roof over your head or not That is absolutely spot on!!!! However there is a way to speak to people and using the threat of violence is not one of them . You speak to people the way you yourself like to be spoken to. More so when the underkeeper probably has a SGC and FAC and to use threatening violence could see him losing his tickets. Thats a sure fire way of him losing the roof over his head just as much as poor shoot days. ATB, Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 If the keeper has a problem with what your doing or where your doing it and comes over and explains why, then assuming he has a genuine reason to ask you not to shoot where you are, I for one would move immediately! If he comes over ranting, raving, abusive and threatening and I have the right to be there.....then he can whistle! Manners cost nothing! Absolutely. Couldnt agree more. If they havent the decency to respect what recreational shooters do in their time off i couldnt care less what they are are trying to achieve as a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STOTTO Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 That is absolutely spot on!!!! However there is a way to speak to people and using the threat of violence is not one of them . You speak to people the way you yourself like to be spoken to. More so when the underkeeper probably has a SGC and FAC and to use threatening violence could see him losing his tickets. Thats a sure fire way of him losing the roof over his head just as much as poor shoot days. ATB, Pat “You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar”! Comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Richo Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 If that is private land you were shooting it had nothing to do with the under keeper should of called police when threatened. You could of got your mate landowner to complain of trespassing he would of got done. Carry on shooting it if your doing pest controll on private land nothing to do with anybody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladyjack Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 i w as shooting pigeons on a farm when a man came storming accross the field,with a baseball bat in hand,he called me a ******* idiot and he was going to cave my head in if i didnt stop shooting birds,i told him there was only one idiot on this field and it wasnt me, and if you lift that bat and come towards me i swear down ill shoot you in the legs,he stormed off and must of rang police,when the officer came,i had allready met this officer before,he says the man had allready had a caution for the same thing towards another shooter,the officer called to my house a couple of hours later and said ttyhe man appoligised and did i want to prees charges,i said no as long as he stays of the land,he said he will go back and tell him he is lucky i did not take this matter further,and if he comes on land again he will be arrested,hence he has not been on field again, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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