How much to spend?

[mct94]

Wondering what people's thoughts are on this -

 

Looking to buy first gun for clays- Do I buy something in the 600-800 region (Marrochi, W&S, Bettinsoli Ect) or do I go for something more high end (browning, Berretta Ect)

 

My thoughts are that I could easily want to buy a different gun 6/12 months down the line so do I buy something cheaper for now and accept it won't hold as much value, or pay more for a higher end gun and it hold more value.

 

For all I know the first gun I buy might end up being ideal, and being a novice I am not sure my shooting capability will change between a £800 gun and a £1500 gun.

 

You do hear some bad reviews of the lower end guns especially Webley and Scott , but if the gun fits me well isn't that most important? I'm gonna buy brand new so it will have warranty so presumably any problems would be sorted anyway?

[fenboy]

I would always buy S/H quality rather than new budget guns.

You get a better gun that holds its value and someone else has taken the hit from the new price , buy a cheaper gun then I can almost guarantee that you will want to upgrade before long if you start to take the clays seriously.

 

£800-£1000 will get you a very tidy gun from the big three Browning, Beretta or Miroku.

[Glenlivet]

I wouldn't buy new. My Guerini was mint second hand with 7 of the original 10 year warranty left and I paid £1000 less than new price. I'd spend decent money then keep the gun and learn to use it properly.

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, there are many lower cost O/U that are well made and will last many years, a well fitting multi choke gun around £500/800 will do all you need, many makes types you just need to research the best to suite you.

[TONY R]

If you are wanting to shoot clays i would personaly, Buy a used Miroku, it will swalow all your budget, but you will have a gun to last you years if you do your research on the gun and ensure its in genuine sound condition and not a ex shooting school reject with a bit of spit and polish.

Remember these guns are popular clay busters guns so even if joe soap owns it, it can have seen a lot of action and still look pretty tidy, to buy once you need to buy wise.

For new guns in that price range its a dangerous price point in my opinion, buy cheap buy BAIKAL is a motto i was told as a kid in the 1970s and that i feel is still true today as it ever was, and you will have change from your 800 quid.

But for me a nice used Miroku is the way to go.

[rimfire4969]

My advance for what it's worth is to buy second hand. You can get a great gun that will last years or it will hold its money to sell when you want to change.

 

It's like buying a new car, it will loss a load of money the min you walk out the door.

[oowee]

I would always buy S/H quality rather than new budget guns.

You get a better gun that holds its value and someone else has taken the hit from the new price , buy a cheaper gun then I can almost guarantee that you will want to upgrade before long if you start to take the clays seriously.

 

£800-£1000 will get you a very tidy gun from the big three Browning, Beretta or Miroku.

I thought that until I saw the s/h beretta going for £800 and they were 10 - 15 years old (s pigeon) and a new one was I think £1100-£1200 and I thought if i just kept the new one 10 years I could sell it for what I paid?

[johnphilip]

If you are wanting to shoot clays i would personaly, Buy a used Miroku, it will swalow all your budget, but you will have a gun to last you years if you do your research on the gun and ensure its in genuine sound condition and not a ex shooting school reject with a bit of spit and polish.

Remember these guns are popular clay busters guns so even if joe soap owns it, it can have seen a lot of action and still look pretty tidy, to buy once you need to buy wise.

For new guns in that price range its a dangerous price point in my opinion, buy cheap buy BAIKAL is a motto i was told as a kid in the 1970s and that i feel is still true today as it ever was, and you will have change from your 800 quid.

But for me a nice used Miroku is the way to go.

 

Yep a Miroku mk38 sporter an amazing gun i have just gone back to one of these. Had guns upto two grand and this one is my go to gun.

[Chris Bb]

I'd go for second hand Browning/Miroku/Beretta.

 

BUT (and this is a lesson I didn't learn until too late) go around the grounds and try the different guns until you find one that makes you shoot better.

 

Only after a few years if/when you're getting very good will you feel the need for a new(ish) "quality" gun.

 

Me, after 5 years + I'm still more than happy with my Browning and don't feel the need for anything else. Plus, it's still worth what I paid for it.

 

Mainly, enjoy!

[ditchman]

are you shooting already ?

[Whitebridges]

Try plenty and buy secondhand !

[McSpredder]

As others have said, look for a good secondhand Browning/Miroku/Beretta. If it suits you, you can use it for the rest of your life. If you decide to change for something else, you will get good trade-in.

 

It is easy to improve gun fit, but very difficult to improve reliability (which comes from good design and good materials, accurately machined and heat treated). What you want is a gun that is unlikely to break down, one that every decent gunsmith in the country is familiar with, a model for which spares are available off the shelf. That is why those three names keep cropping up.

 

Go to a gunsmith (somebody who actually repairs guns as well as selling them) and tell him you want something that is mechanically sound, but are not too worried if the stock has a few scratches and bruises, or some of the blacking is worn off the barrels.

 

Buy locally if possible. Something for sale at the other end of the country might sound cheap, but if it has to be sent back to have a problem sorted, it might prove to be less of a bargain after all.

[bruno22rf]

Buy second hand from a local, reputable dealer, let someone else suffer the initial depreciation.....most quality guns will live longer than you so you can buy with confidence.

[Cambsman]

All of my shotguns are secondhand. Top marques, but second hand. Not too much to go wrong as shotguns are pretty low tech. All of my rifles, however, I bought brand new. Higher tech, more chance of some muppit messing it up.

[JohnfromUK]

Buy second hand from a local, reputable dealer, let someone else suffer the initial depreciation.....most quality guns will live longer than you so you can buy with confidence.

+1 but whatever you buy, make sure it fits you well.

[ElvisThePelvis]

If you have decided to buy new, good on you, there is something nice about being the first owner and you do benefit from the warranty. Having seen people buy the cheaper end and then upgrade within a year I would suggest buying beretta or miroku over bettinsoli or similar, they are better made and better balanced all other things such as fit being equal.

 

Buying second hand has it merits, especially if it has a story, but for the small marginal saving of a gun a few years old versus buying new I can see the sense in buying a new one

[johnphilip]

If you buy new and say after a couple of months you dont like it you are going to loose a lot of money trust me i have been there loosing £400 on a couple of months old gun that cost me £2000 ,the guy in the shop said keep it for a year and i will still offer you the same loosing £400.

[Danger-Mouse]

I would always buy S/H quality rather than new budget guns.

You get a better gun that holds its value and someone else has taken the hit from the new price , buy a cheaper gun then I can almost guarantee that you will want to upgrade before long if you start to take the clays seriously.

 

£800-£1000 will get you a very tidy gun from the big three Browning, Beretta or Miroku.

 

This ^ ^

 

All I`ll add is that of the three, Miroku will get you the best bang for your buck.

 

If you do decide to go cheaper a used Winchester is another option. Plenty of nice 101`s about for around £500 and they`ll hold their value.

[hawkfanz]

If you are wanting to shoot clays i would personaly, Buy a used Miroku, it will swalow all your budget, but you will have a gun to last you years if you do your research on the gun and ensure its in genuine sound condition and not a ex shooting school reject with a bit of spit and polish.

Remember these guns are popular clay busters guns so even if joe soap owns it, it can have seen a lot of action and still look pretty tidy, to buy once you need to buy wise.

For new guns in that price range its a dangerous price point in my opinion, buy cheap buy BAIKAL is a motto i was told as a kid in the 1970s and that i feel is still true today as it ever was, and you will have change from your 800 quid.

But for me a nice used Miroku is the way to go.

dont knock baikel i had one for over 20 years and got double what i paid for it after all that time.

[B25Modelman]

...but if the gun fits me well isn't that most important? I'm gonna buy brand new so it will have warranty so presumably any problems would be sorted anyway?

You have hit the nail on the head yourself.

 

Like any sport, there are tools that suit and tools that don't and with that comes cost be it new or s/h.

 

You could buy something that has absolutely no character (poor build quality) that suits you well or one that has character (very good build quality and looks) that does not...or visa versa.

 

Let's face it shooting is not a cheap pastime so buy something you like the look of, that fits reasonably well and what fits your budget be it s/h or new.

 

For example: a recent purchase. I paid top $$$ (well £150 off RRP) only to find the same gun(s) being sold s/h 5 months later for £400 less. But they were not available when I wanted to buy so it has not phased me. Also the ones that did appear s/h had important accessory parts missing from their original supply and one seller did not even know its barrel length. I got precisely what I wanted, with all it's genuine parts, when I wanted it and for the money I was prepared to pay.

[TONY R]

dont knock baikel i had one for over 20 years and got double what i paid for it after all that time.

I did not knock Baikals i sujested he should buy one if he was on for a brand new gun in his price range.

[buze]

I think the idea of buying second hand is sound (that's what I did) however there most important part is not the gun, is the fit..

Instead of looking for a gun, try to find a ground that has a gunroom and is willing to lend you guns to try out. And try a few of the suggestions above!

 

That's what I did at the mid Wales Shooting Centre, I put a deposit on one gun, and shifted it twice before settling on 'the gun' I bought. And that was even before I had my licence!

 

I also had settled on a miroku btw, I think they are excellent; however the other advantage of the method I described is that the guy at the gunroom will learn what you are looking for and what might suit you, and might find you something even better!

 

That's how I landed a pristine B25 B2C in the end!

[jonthebrit]

Another advocate for second hand good quality. I recently went into a gun room looking for a Beretta Silver Pigeon 1. The fit was right etc and the price about what I could afford. I ended up walking out with a Beretta SP III second hand, saved a bit of cash and got to try the actual gun before committing. Very pleased.

 

Of course I went home and scratched the barrel on the zip of my slip ..... very un-pleased

[mct94]

Cheers for the replies, not gonna reply to all in one mammoth post but have read all comments and really appreciate everyones input

 

As soon as this SGC hits the doormat I am straight up to Doveridge (my local) to become a member and use a load of their guns. Hopefully this will give me a better idea of what to buy. Ive only ever shot a Beretta Silver Pig 1 on lessons and an old AYA No 2 SxS with my shooting mate.

 

 

I think the general consensus of buying big brand and second hand seems to be the way forward. My only problem with this is I feel I could wait a long time for a 525, MK38, SP1 to come up that fits me well? Which makes me think buying from a shop, with a large selection to hold, would allow me to get one that fits very well and means I can get shooting quicker

 

Right heres a question for you all (could be painfully obvious) - Do guns come out the Factory in the same measurements? i.e length of pull, cast , comb etc? For example, if you had 5 Beretta Silver Pigeon 1's (all same Gauge/bore and grade) on the wall in a gun shop, would they all have the same measurements? Or do they come in slight variations?

 

Once again thanks again for everyones comments, big help.

[TONY R]

Guns of same brand and model are pretty much identical in stock dimensions, Deatail changes can be made throughout probuction but generaly these changes are slight and certainly dont change the overall dynamics of the guns handling so you could tell.

But handling a gun is the best way of knowing its what you want.

Wood mass and denbsity can make similar guns feel quite different in ballance, i once remember picking up an 1187 SP remington and compared its balance to a 1100 magnum, both guns had same length and profile barrels both were multi choke and stacks same length and drop etc, yet the 1100 just felt so much better to everyone who compared the two, but they were physicaly near identical, i could only put this down to denser wood on the old 1100.

So look at each gun and see what suits you, with Browning Mirokus and in my opinion more so with Bberettas Older can be fine. And with Berettas I dont even like post 1994 guns but have no issues with the older guns, its you that has to make the choice, and remember its not a race to buy a gun and the world is full of them so you will have lots of them to check out.