What's wrong in the world

[johnphilip]

:lol:

 

You should work for the Government Walshie!

Sorry but the Government should work for us, we put them there. I belive a lot of this problem started some years ago when you were stopped for correctng your child, i.e a clip around the ear, or teachers not been able to punish children for doing wrong.

Kids turning around and saying, i am going to report you for clipping me around the ear.

And saying you can do that to me. So they know they can do wrong and not get punished for it.

I think all that is needed let the punishment fit the crime.

[walshie]

It was many years ago now but I can still remember my Granddad's words to me regarding what you needed to know in life. "Once you have learnt right from wrong, the rest will be obvious."

 

My mother used to batter me, and the school used to slipper us and cane us if required. We even had a teacher who would twist your ear till it nearly came off in his hand. Logically, as I don't pour boiling water on people, it must have worked.

[Dr D]

So here's what the foundational international human rights document says on the subject.

 

"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood."

 

And when individuals don't behave as required above, their rights maybe limited. The only exception is that, as a consequence, they must not be tortured or held in slavery. These are the only two human rights that are absolute. Everything else, including the right to life can be taken away by the state and be human rights compliant, provided it is a reasonable and proportionate response as would be acceptable in a democratic society.

 

So, let's not blame human rights for this sort of vile behaviour or the inadequacy of the response.

 

Let's blame the perpetrators and perhaps bad criminal laws or sentencing guidelines.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Dr D

[four-wheel-drive]

The simple fact is that as long as there are human beings on this world there will be bad people doing bad things and nothing that anyone can say or do will change that it always has been that way and always will it is just a fact of life that we have to live with.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

The simple fact is that as long as there are human beings on this world there will be bad people doing bad things and nothing that anyone can say or do will change that it always has been that way and always will it is just a fact of life that we have to live with.

 

That may well be true, unfortunately there will also be bleeding heart liberals who get in the way of justice and retribution.

[subsonicnat]

So here's what the foundational international human rights document says on the subject.

"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood."

And when individuals don't behave as required above, their rights maybe limited. The only exception is that, as a consequence, they must not be tortured or held in slavery. These are the only two human rights that are absolute. Everything else, including the right to life can be taken away by the state and be human rights compliant, provided it is a reasonable and proportionate response as would be acceptable in a democratic society.

So, let's not blame human rights for this sort of vile behaviour or the inadequacy of the response.

Let's blame the perpetrators and perhaps bad criminal laws or sentencing guidelines.

Well said that man.

[countryman]

Last week i was waiting for the wife in the Car at our village. A kid of about 10 i would say was walking home with what i assume was his dad and younger sister and brother. This kid was swearing and spitting as he walked along, he came up to my car and stuck his arms out pushing his face towards the window, challenging me for a reaction. All his dad did was smirk at him and said theirs someone in there. If i was not in the Car i am sure i would have come back to see damage done. Never have i wanted to give some kid a good smack and his dad a good slap as well.

[12gauge82]

Lloyd90 is spot on some people just come on and spout rubbish about human rights law.

 

Misconstruing Article 8. Talking nonsense about Article 3 not having been violated prior to 1998. And reflecting on the golden age of the 13th Century!!!! For god sake.

I've watched several of the human rights laws being used to defend evil people many times in real life, maybe if you had seen the suffering caused to good people I have you would feel different, who knows? I never suggested we go back to the 13th century, just pointed that the road to the rule of law as we know it today started a very long time ago, I didn't say article 3 was not violated before 1998, as it has continued to be violated since the echr. You've got your opinion and I've got mine.

[Wb123]

Blimey. You lot could argue about anything.

 

Whatever the laws are, they obviously aren't harsh enough to deter scum from doing this.

 

I don't care if the perpetrator was mentally ill or a drug addict. The fact he went to the effort of boiling some water to pour on an old man means he wasn't there purely for the money.

 

If he's caught, I'd like to see his punishment as having boiling water poured on him throughout his prison sentence, but unfortunately some do-gooder will make out this excuse for a human is somehow the victim and needs to be handled with kid gloves on his community service.

Do you belive the death penalty is an effective deterrent in countries where it is still applied? The data would suggest it isnt. Unfortunately humans dont seem to behave by such rational and predictable rules, i am all for locking this sort away for a very long time but that is for the protection of the rest of society, i dont imagine for a minute it would act as a deterrent for this kind of offending.

[CharlieT]

It was many years ago now but I can still remember my Granddad's words to me regarding what you needed to know in life. "Once you have learnt right from wrong, the rest will be obvious."

 

My mother used to batter me, and the school used to slipper us and cane us if required. We even had a teacher who would twist your ear till it nearly came off in his hand. Logically, as I don't pour boiling water on people, it must have worked.

 

And there you have the answer, summed up simply in your Granddad's.

 

Anyone who can not live in society following this simple rule needs to be dealt with harshly. Children behave and respect rules because of the fear of the consequences, this in turn moulds their adult life.

 

If we adopted a zero tolerance attitude towards missbehaviour and so called petty crime through fear of harsh consequences, we may just start to see some of these feral people thinking about their actions.

 

It really is time we brought back corporal punishment in schools and did away with the namby pamby idea that explaining to the young that their errant ways are naughty or that, to an adult, community service is a deterrent.

[Bazooka Joe]

If we adopted a zero tolerance attitude towards missbehaviour and so called petty crime through fear of harsh consequences, we may just start to see some of these feral people thinking about their actions.

 

It really is time we brought back corporal punishment in schools and did away with the namby pamby idea that explaining to the young that their errant ways are naughty or that, to an adult, community service is a deterrent.

 

 

I agree Charlie, & would add bring the birch back as well.....now there's one for the lefties..

[Velocette]

 

And there you have the answer, summed up simply in your Granddad's.

 

Anyone who can not live in society following this simple rule needs to be dealt with harshly. Children behave and respect rules because of the fear of the consequences, this in turn moulds their adult life.

 

If we adopted a zero tolerance attitude towards missbehaviour and so called petty crime through fear of harsh consequences, we may just start to see some of these feral people thinking about their actions.

 

It really is time we brought back corporal punishment in schools and did away with the namby pamby idea that explaining to the young that their errant ways are naughty or that, to an adult, community service is a deterrent.

 

That's the way of it,,,plus disregarding the idea that "society has let them down" . You let yourself down,,or you do not. Poverty and the like did not turn our grandparents into antisocial idiots.

[wymberley]

 

And there you have the answer, summed up simply in your Granddad's.

 

Anyone who can not live in society following this simple rule needs to be dealt with harshly. Children behave and respect rules because of the fear of the consequences, this in turn moulds their adult life.

 

If we adopted a zero tolerance attitude towards missbehaviour and so called petty crime through fear of harsh consequences, we may just start to see some of these feral people thinking about their actions.

 

It really is time we brought back corporal punishment in schools and did away with the namby pamby idea that explaining to the young that their errant ways are naughty or that, to an adult, community service is a deterrent.

^^^^

This.

 

Unfortunately though, there would be a time delay before it kicked in. "Fear of the consequences" suggests a rational thought process. Often the brain (or whatever it once could have been called) of many of this ilk is now so addled that the ability to calculate that 1 + 1 = 2 - you can forget the 2 + 2 = 4 on the grounds that that is utterly beyond their comprehension - is exceedingly doubtful. Eradicating drug abuse would, at a stroke, reduce the number of such crimes. Please, though, just don't ask me how this could be achieved.

[12gauge82]

So if they didn't have human rights we could torture the where abouts out of them ? Or do you mean something else ? You are a bit vague with what that actually means. If your referring to the Moors killers they were medically diagnosed as 'criminally insane'.

 

As for article 8, if you even read the first paragraph you would see the exact words

 

" There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

 

As for the claim that prisoners say their cell mates are "their family" and this stops them being dealt with - do you have a source for this please ?

 

I find it highly unbelievable sorry, the LEGAL definition is a group living together with ties by blood, marriage or adoption.

 

I would be interested to hear actual sources of what you claim, maybe you are right and I wouldn't be rude and say you are wrong but I don't believe at present ...

The law has quantified prisons as communities and their cell as their home, the problem with the echr is it creates an uneven playing field, criminals don't care about others human rights and once jailed it is of very little deterrence, the system and everyone else is bound by it, this gives criminals a massive advantage. As for the Moors murders and the like, I don't care if they're insane or not, I believe the rights of the victims family's should come first and if information could be extracted leading to where victims where buried giving their families peace, sorry I don't care about monsters rights.

[Dr D]

I've watched several of the human rights laws being used to defend evil people many times in real life, maybe if you had seen the suffering caused to good people I have you would feel different, who knows? I never suggested we go back to the 13th century, just pointed that the road to the rule of law as we know it today started a very long time ago, I didn't say article 3 was not violated before 1998, as it has continued to be violated since the echr. You've got your opinion and I've got mine.

I seen quite a bit, and although I admit human rights may be used to defend some nasty characters I have also seen it get cancer suffers drugs, nursing home residents dignity, armed forces personnel basic equipment to protect their lives in theatre, equality for unmarried people, non-discrimination in accessing services for lgbti..... I could go on. But I won't..

 

As you say, you have your opinion and I have mine. And, I know you meant the HRA, rather than the echr but I will let that little faux pas go.

[12gauge82]

I seen quite a bit, and although I admit human rights may be used to defend some nasty characters I have also seen it get cancer suffers drugs, nursing home residents dignity, armed forces personnel basic equipment to protect their lives in theatre, equality for unmarried people, non-discrimination in accessing services for lgbti..... I could go on. But I won't..

 

As you say, you have your opinion and I have mine. And, I know you meant the HRA, rather than the echr but I will let that little faux pas go.

Can't disagree with that, which is why I said SOME of the hra, (which as we know is part of the echr) should be removed for PRISONERS, decent law abiding people should enjoy all the protections they can get.

[njc110381]

The world has gone to **** hasn't it. I'm firmly of the belief that anyone who commits a crime this brutal should be disposed of. I don't care about rehab - quite frankly we are over populated as a planet so we could manage without them. They talk about costs but why does it have to cost? It's all down to the pen pushers and folk who need to create such a difficult process at the end.

 

Personally I'd have a door with a chute leading to an under ground incinerator next to the court room. Open the door and chuck them in. A unit like that could be run for less money than one prisoner costs per year. You'd only have to spark it up once a week and shovel out the ash to make space for the next lot. Anyone, and I mean anyone who gets more than ten years should get that treatment automatically. Just walk them out, open the door and give them a push. Done!

 

Of course we could try to fix them but why? Animals aren't given that level of care and it makes me sick that as humans we feel we matter more than every other species on the planet. Just put them down as cheaply as possible.

[Lloyd90]

Can't disagree with that, which is why I said SOME of the hra, (which as we know is part of the echr) should be removed for PRISONERS, decent law abiding people should enjoy all the protections they can get.

The point of the act is clearly totally lost to you!

 

Hopefully one day people who hunt aren't classed as "monsters" as we would lose certain rights and there's plenty of folk out there who think that should happen!

[bornfree]

Blimey. You lot could argue about anything.

 

Whatever the laws are, they obviously aren't harsh enough to deter scum from doing this.

 

I don't care if the perpetrator was mentally ill or a drug addict. The fact he went to the effort of boiling some water to pour on an old man means he wasn't there purely for the money.

 

If he's caught, I'd like to see his punishment as having boiling water poured on him throughout his prison sentence, but unfortunately some do-gooder will make out this excuse for a human is somehow the victim and needs to be handled with kid gloves on his community service.

Have you thought of becoming the Justice minister? Most of the country would back you.

[12gauge82]

The point of the act is clearly totally lost to you!

 

Hopefully one day people who hunt aren't classed as "monsters" as we would lose certain rights and there's plenty of folk out there who think that should happen!

I think my point is lost on you and if God forbid you are one day one of your family is effected by these monsters I'm sure you would have a change of heart, considering the human rights Act has only been in its current form since 1998 what travesty of justice happened in modern times before that, bearing in mind they still do and remember if a psychotic goverment ever did get into power they could simply opt out of the hra anyway or just ignore it.

[12gauge82]

The point of the act is clearly totally lost to you!

 

Hopefully one day people who hunt aren't classed as "monsters" as we would lose certain rights and there's plenty of folk out there who think that should happen!

One another point of law, remember I mentioned our wonderful legal system, which worked fine before the hra? Well it's generally not possible to be retrospectively prosicuted for something that wasnt illegal at the time, so that blows your above point out of the water, I know you've been brain washed at uni recently but in the real world you will probably realise the error of your training, but maybe my point is totally lost on you, maybe we should re discuss this after you've been at your new profession a few years.

[Lloyd90]

One another point of law, remember I mentioned our wonderful legal system, which worked fine before the hra? Well it's generally not possible to be retrospectively prosicuted for something that wasnt illegal at the time, so that blows your above point out of the water, I know you've been brain washed at uni recently but in the real world you will probably realise the error of your training, but maybe my point is totally lost on you, maybe we should re discuss this after you've been at your new profession a few years.

Yea maybe by then I'll want to walk everyone into a big incinerator 🙄😂😂

[Thunderbird]

No idea what the answer is, and it does seem from evidence that the death-penalty does not appear to be a deterrent.

 

However, one thing it would do is prevent reoffending.

 

[Westley]

An elderly couple in Bristol have had their front door kicked in they've been mugged the old gent was bashed on the head with a cleaver and had boiling water poured on him

What on gods green earth is wrong with these people

 

They BREATHE ?

[12gauge82]

No idea what the answer is, and it does seem from evidence that the death-penalty does not appear to be a deterrent.

 

However, one thing it would do is prevent reoffending.

 

Spot on and totally agree, I understand those that are against the death penalty, but I've seen people walk free after 4 years for what was in reality murder, they then get locked up again for a stabbing (section 18) and they have the cheek to whine about their rights, while solicitors moan in adjudications (mini trials within jails) how their clients rights have been breached trying to justify why their client has thrown a kettle of boiling water and sugar over the face of an officer they never even met before, scaring them for life, the cps then refuse to take it on as it's not in the public interest. Got to be honest I'm sick of the winging bleeding hearts who defend this type of scum without ever having to deal with them, I defy anyone who did not to change their opinion.