scotslad Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) So just to clarify, you are claiming that...........Orkney and Shetland voted to remain in the Union despite the "constant reminders" that a "vote for independence would mean automatic exclusion from the EU"? That being the case we must then conclude that the reported majority of the rest of Scotland voted to for independence......even though it would "mean automatic exclusion from the EU?" Is that correct? If so it appears that the majority of Scotland was prepared to leave the Union and understood this would mean exclusion from the EU, but according to Ms Sturgeon, Scotland is not prepared to stay in the Union and leave the EU? Interesting! Ur sort of muddled up there, according to SNP at the referendum we WOULD be allowed to remain part of EU (thats despite most leading experts saying we wouldn't) and the No campign pledged voting No was the only way to guarantee to stay i the EU. Both appear to be false now Thats wot SNP were pledging along with keeping the pound despite treasury/BoE saying no way, didn't make a lot of sense at the time It's hard to compare the 2 referndums and say which way people voted at them and compare that to any future referndum There was so many lies and half truths told at referndum time on both sides (just like with the EU vote) its hard to keep up. Edited January 9, 2017 by scotslad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Ur sort of muddled up there, according to SNP at the referendum we WOULD be allowed to remain part of EU (thats despite most leading experts saying we wouldn't) and the No campign pledged voting No was the only way to guarantee to stay i the EU. Both appear to be false now Thats wot SNP were pledging along with keeping the pound despite treasury/BoE saying no way, didn't make a lot of sense at the time It's hard to compare the 2 referndums and say which way people voted at them and compare that to any future referndum There was so many lies and half truths told at referndum time on both sides (just like with the EU vote) its hard to keep up. Muddled up? Could be but I thought I was requesting clarification of a claim made by aldivalloch in post #43 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Isn't the current situation just another ride on the merry-go-round. I'm thinking of back in the 70s when Winnie Ewing quickly blossomed and even more quickly withered. We even got invited to join the Royal Scottish Air Force and Navy! I daresay that there will always be an ebb and flow, but my feeling/suspicion is that we will not see any further significant increase in support for the SNP from where we are now. The difference of the SNP now versus the heyday of Winnie is that the current lot really captured much of the narrative that was traditionally dominated by Labour voters. After the 50s/60s when the Scottish vote demographic moved from being predominantly Conservative to predominantly Labour the SNP always occupied more of a right of centre stance. Salmond, Sturgeon and the SNP strategists have been shrewd into positioning the SNP as apparently being a left of centre party and taking advantage of the traditional Labour voter feeling left behind by New Labour. Much like UKIP have done in a lot of blue collar England. The squeezed middle in Scotland are now starting to recognise the hollow and/or unfunded promises of the SNP and recognising that they will be left to shoulder the burden, hence the gradual creep towards a Tory vote by that demographic. All fascinating stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krugerandsmith Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 So little Nikki is moaning on again abut a second independence referendum .I for one would welcome it . Look back at the results of the original vote for a Scottish assembly you will see that on a low turn out taking into account those Scots who did not bother to vote plus those that voted no only about 20% of the population voted for a Scottish Assembly . O n this basis 80& of Scots did not vote for it so the question is does MS Surgeon actually a mandate from the people of Scotland to speak for them ? Will someone reel her in and introduce her to a priest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 One of these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 thats the one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuji Shooter Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 HAve you borrowed that off Ditchman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCloggie Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 The trouble is the average Scott is isolated from the big picture, often living in small rural communities, and constantly bombarded by Nationalist propaganda. I have repeated this many times on here but my elderly aunt in Langholm was told by a campaigner during the independence referendum that if they got independence the SNP would double her pension. SHE BELIEVED IT! and she voted accordingly. How many more like her are there? If you are going to tell fibs tell big ones appears to be their motto Did the same not happen during the Brexit campaign when Farage said that money that went to the EU would be used for the NHS (remember the bus?) . A lot of ignorant stupid folk fell for that huge lie as well. I wonder why England is so desperate to keep Scotland in the union... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 I wonder why England is so desperate to keep Scotland in the union... Perhaps you could enlighten us all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCloggie Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Perhaps you could enlighten us all. I wouldn't wonder if I knew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 the thing that ####s me off is that spurgeon's only criteria is independence at any price, her/their only consideration should be what is the best for Scotland and the people of Scotland, then prove it !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny long shanks Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Sturgeon is a trouble maker, always has been, always will be. Sometimes it seems as though the scots (especially the SNP) will always disagree with the English regardless of the subject matter. I think that if brexit is ever to be a real success then we all need to be on the same team, simples. Unfortunately it looks like it will turn into a political showdown. Question is, who has got the biggest pair of ******** Sturgeon or May? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 A minor correction - it's "Orkney", not the "Orkneys", and "Shetland", not "Shetland Islands". Get yer facts right. Oh, and talking of facts, you may or may not know that when Orkney and Shetland voted to stay within the UK it was in light of the constant reminders issued to Scotland that a vote for independence would mean automatic exclusion from the EU....... Mmm, I wonder what's changed..... A minor correction it's YOUR not YER. Just saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Did the same not happen during the Brexit campaign when Farage said that money that went to the EU would be used for the NHS (remember the bus?) . A lot of ignorant stupid folk fell for that huge lie as well. I wonder why England is so desperate to keep Scotland in the union... from my experience most people don't care - again it is the "London elite" who want to keep the union. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achosenman Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Did the same not happen during the Brexit campaign when Farage said that money that went to the EU would be used for the NHS (remember the bus?) . You might want to fact check that. Nigel was on record saying that in his opinion, the leave campaign made an error of judgement with that bus thing. Remember Nigel was NOT part of the official leave champagne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulnix Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 from my experience most people don't care - again it is the "London elite" who want to keep the union. I think the first time around a lot of people would of been sad to see the Scots go, if they have another vote I think a lot will just not care either way. Re Brexit and EU money going to the NHS, I thought it was always said it could be used not would be ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 You might want to fact check that. Nigel was on record saying that in his opinion, the leave campaign made an error of judgement with that bus thing. Remember Nigel was NOT part of the official leave champagne. I love that Freudian slip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCloggie Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 You might want to fact check that. Nigel was on record saying that in his opinion, the leave campaign made an error of judgement with that bus thing. Remember Nigel was NOT part of the official leave champagne. I think the loon drank a wee bit too much of the stuff when he was spouting his drivel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 One of these? What on earth would she use one of these for?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achosenman Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 I think the loon drank a wee bit too much of the stuff when he was spouting his drivel. Yeah ok, that's auto correct for you...how about retracting your allegation re the bus advert. The only drivel I have read so far comes from the re-moan camp...you for the avoidance of doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCloggie Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) It wasn't just an allegation. He was backpedaling on claims he made during the campaign . the old game of lie and deceive. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-nigel-farage-nhs-350-million-pounds-live-health-service-u-turn-a7102831.html Edited January 9, 2017 by McCloggie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achosenman Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 It wasn't just an allegation. He was backpedaling on claims he made during the campaign . the old game of lie and deceive. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-admits-wont-extra-8271594 No you mentioned the bus. That was a very specific allegation. You were wrong. NF was nothing to do with that ad campaign. The day I believe anything that issues forth from the wet left rag that is the Mirror is the day I'll start batting for the other side. The only games of lie and deceive come from those in the EU with their collective snouts firmly embedded in the trough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCloggie Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 No you mentioned the bus. That was a very specific allegation. You were wrong. NF was nothing to do with that ad campaign. The day I believe anything that issues forth from the wet left rag that is the Mirror is the day I'll start batting for the other side. The only games of lie and deceive come from those in the EU with their collective snouts firmly embedded in the trough. OK, fair enough.I wasn't completely right there. But you have to admit that NF wherever he spoke was going on about how the money could be spend on our own services and institutions instead of paying it into the EU.He might have not lead the campaign,but to many people he was the face of the campaign and believed everything he said.and that's what the majority voted on. Now we'll see what will bloom from this now NF and the other clown BJ have jumped ship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 He might have not lead the campaign,but to many people he was the face of the campaign and believed everything he said.and that's what the majority voted on. And theirs me thinking it was the little people that had spoken against the political elite of westminster, or is that another false claim.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCloggie Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 And theirs me thinking it was the little people that had spoken against the political elite of westminster, or is that another false claim.... No,that was the Scottish independence referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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