Dead-Eyed Duck Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 This may come as a cautionary tale to some. A shooting friend of mine contracted an initial bout of cancer a few years ago, and he gave me a letter to be opened in the event of his death, which happened a couple of weeks ago. The letter gave me permission to dispose of his shotguns, which were stored at his house. The letter also explained that the key to the gun cabinet was in a separate safe, and his wife had access to the key in this safe. The letter also contained a copy of his shotgun certificate. I was not sure of the legality of his action (I thought that nobody was allowed to have access to the gun cabinet keys?), and so contacted BASC who were very helpful. They stressed that Police Firearms Departments could possibly be 'difficult', and I was advised to take a note of any conversations with them that occurred, and to also note the name of any personnel that I spoke with. I duly spoke with the relevant Firearms Department, and I was told that the guns had to be disposed of within 72 hours of a persons death. I was 'authorised' to take the guns to a local gunsmith and dispose of them asap. So, I contacted the grieving widow, who understandably was still in shock, and took the guns to the nearest gun shop. The guns in question were an inexpensive Turkish s/auto, and a well-known o/u of reputable make. The gun shop understandably did not want to sell the guns on a commission basis, taking space in the gun racks until sold. So, I was offered the grand total of £200 for the guns, and that was it. I obtained the relevant documentation to be sent to the police. I went from the shop to see the widow, and gave her the money. I then went back home, and wrote a letter to the police advising what I had done, enclosing copies of the documents and the shotgun certificate. I then rang the police explaining what I had done - "Great, can you also obtain a copy of the death certificate?". When I queried this, as the guns were now 'off the street', I was told that I had to get a copy of the death certificate 'As closure'...... This I later did, somewhat unnecessarily upsetting the widow again. As I said at the start, the above may come as a shock to some, and I was very fortunate that the guns were not worth a great deal. Any comments would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 I have often pondered on this. As in how your widow deals with getting your guns out of the cabinet assuming they do not know were the keys are . Very interested in how this thread progresses. Great post for discussion 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 If you have a SGC they could have been disposed of onto your certificate to sell at a more suitable pace or the RFD could have stored them for the widow to obtain a section 7 or full SGC in due course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donegalcharlie Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 Think we all wondered about this at some stage what would or could happen. Who would get your firearms in such an event. I have my great grand fathers shotgun an it's what I started with an would like to keep it in the family so another generation could possibly do the same with mine and his. This is very interesting indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead-Eyed Duck Posted February 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 If you have a SGC they could have been disposed of onto your certificate to sell at a more suitable pace or the RFD could have stored them for the widow to obtain a section 7 or full SGC in due course. I do have a shotgun certificate - now 'who' would have disposed them onto my certificate? Being wise always comes after the event, and this is one reason why I made this post. The first time that I knew of the dear chap's death was when I was contacted by the widow the day after it happened. Fortunately I did know that the guns were not worth a great deal, but even so the nominal sum that I obtained was well below what I expected. I appreciate that shops have to make a profit, but even so..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team tractor Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 I've told my mrs what's going where. I want my closest mates to have them . I've an air rifle from my friend that I was given by his son after he died . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team tractor Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 I do have a shotgun certificate - now 'who' would have disposed them onto my certificate? Being wise always comes after the event, and this is one reason why I made this post. The first time that I knew of the dear chap's death was when I was contacted by the widow the day after it happened. Fortunately I did know that the guns were not worth a great deal, but even so the nominal sum that I obtained was well below what I expected. I appreciate that shops have to make a profit, but even so..... Shops have to service and add vat , make wages and cover over heads . Not saying it's right by any means but they have lots of costs people do realise. I met some lads in a shop trying to get rid of his grandads rifles so I pasted them dafs number( Welsh warrior) He made it easy for them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 I was in my local red's about a year ago when one of our fao came in with a lady and her son after the death of her husband the dealer was not interested in a few as they were of no value but the fao did the paperwork for these to be scrapped and signed a couple over that the widow was paid for.the question of the keys does not really matter.they are not going to take any action against the deceased.my guns are sorted in my will to other family members with sgc. I was in my local red's about a year ago when one of our fao came in with a lady and her son after the death of her husband the dealer was not interested in a few as they were of no value but the fao did the paperwork for these to be scrapped and signed a couple over that the widow was paid for.the question of the keys does not really matter.they are not going to take any action against the deceased.my guns are sorted in my will to other family members with sgc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsbob Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 I do have a shotgun certificate - now 'who' would have disposed them onto my certificate? Being wise always comes after the event, and this is one reason why I made this post. The first time that I knew of the dear chap's death was when I was contacted by the widow the day after it happened. Fortunately I did know that the guns were not worth a great deal, but even so the nominal sum that I obtained was well below what I expected. I appreciate that shops have to make a profit, but even so..... The Police should put the guns on your ticket if requested to do so without delay, cost or obstruction, I know this due to a similar occurrence . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 I appreciate that shops have to make a profit, but even so..... Couldn't agree more. A mate packed in shooting - he gave me a side by side, which I gave to a lad at my local shoot - to ensure it was still used for shooting. The other two guns, both 30" side by sides, were taken to a few gun shops to sell. One didn't want them, the next offered £600 for one (A side-lock which had one box of shells through it since brand new), the other being described as of no value. The third shop offered £1200 for the pair - eventually he upped this to £1300. He said that the mint gun was a make unknown to most shooters, which reduced its price. The second - an AYA 4 - was described as very well used and not worth much. My friend accepted the offer - including one very nice leather gun slip - because he wanted rid on that day. I offered to take them off his hands for more and I would resell them at leisure. In the end - he sold them to the shop. Fast forward two weeks and the same shop had two guns which appeared to be the very same guns. It might be co-incidence, it might not. An AYA 4, described as original and with rare 30" barrels on sale at £850. The second gun was on sale at £2750. It appeared to be exactly the same gun as my friend's. Bought for £1300 - retail - £3600? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 The Police should put the guns on your ticket if requested to do so without delay, cost or obstruction, I know this due to a similar occurrence . Yes or a friendly RfD can I think, my grandfather had a heart attack in his garden, police turned up as it was a sudden death and insisted the gun were dealt with there and then (very insensitive had he been rushed to hospital the guns would have been in the cabinet all safe) fortunately my uncle had SGC and they could be signed into his. I dread anything happening to him as I may have to leg it across the country and end up with a boot full and not have enough cabinet space Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 Death and wills are things many do not like to think about but as my old Grandmother used to say,' talking about death doesn't make it come any sooner'. My latest FEO makes it one of her main topics when she visits over renewals ,' do you know what would happen in event of your death'. Its great if you have a friendly RFD that can take the guns and can be sympathetic, a shotgun or rifle should have the same second hand value as if being sold by a living person otherwise someone is taking advantage. I have a list of my guns bought value and the procedure would be that the RFD would come along with the locksmith and take the guns for sale. Many of us build up relationships with our RFD's and maybe it would be an idea just to let them know your plans should something unexpected happen, they will understand, death is the one thing we all have in common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 Problem is with a sudden death it's often days later before the will can be read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 All I hope is that when I go my Mrs doesn't sell my guns for what i told her they cost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 Wife has SGC and we share a cabinet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypig Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 In these circumstances you would be able to enter the guns on your own ticket..... Exceptional circumstances... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBeaky Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 Wife has SGC and we share a cabinet. Son has sgc, cabinet is shared, and all the guns are mirrored on each certificate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 Firearms Licensing Managers should issue the deceased wife an S7 permit to enable her to dispose of the firearms as she chooses. Do not accept anything else or be fobbed off by the police or FEO's, unless of course the wife doesn't pass muster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katzenjammer Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 (edited) I do have a shotgun certificate - now 'who' would have disposed them onto my certificate? Being wise always comes after the event, and this is one reason why I made this post. The first time that I knew of the dear chap's death was when I was contacted by the widow the day after it happened. Fortunately I did know that the guns were not worth a great deal, but even so the nominal sum that I obtained was well below what I expected. I appreciate that shops have to make a profit, but even so..... I would suggest that the executor of the will, if there is one, may have the power? That may be the widow(er), offspring, another named person, the solicitors? Don't wills have to name an executor? Of course intestacy would be a problem in using an executor if that person is allowed as clearly there wouldn't be an executor? Edited February 25, 2017 by Katzenjammer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuj Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobba Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Firearms Licensing Managers should issue the deceased wife an S7 permit to enable her to dispose of the firearms as she chooses. Do not accept anything else or be fobbed off by the police or FEO's, unless of course the wife doesn't pass muster. I would suggest that the executor of the will, if there is one, may have the power? That may be the widow(er), offspring, another named person, the solicitors? Don't wills have to name an executor? Of course intestacy would be a problem in using an executor if that person is allowed as clearly there wouldn't be an executor? Spoke with BASC on this very issue a couple of years ago. Their response was a combination of the above in that it was the executor of the will who should request S7 permit. I must admit that we didn't discuss those who die intestate because I knew there was a Will in place. Perhaps, in such circumstances, it should be as Charlie T advises it should fall to the widow. I am happy to say that for the case in question the need did not arise and he's still walking the planet, albeit more slowly than before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 when my stepfather died a couple of years ago i had to turn their house upside down to find the key (which i finally did in a light fitting!). I took his Beretta and stuck it in my cabinet, informed my force, they said send in his and my licenses and transferred it across, no hassle at all, i guess i was lucky! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Well my son who lives in London has just renewed his sgc and fac and all my guns are listed on his ticket as shared and also on mine and both forces have been informed... The guns are kept at my home and he now has access to my cabinet if he want to.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 I don't think any feo is going to give anyone a hard time over this. If a friend for example was to take them into safe keeping in the short term and advise feo accordingly then I am sure they would be supportive and advise on the most suitable way to resolve the matter. I have never found firearms licensing divisions to be anything but very helpful in all matters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 When my friend died recently our local RFD (also a friend) made me his agent and I took them in for the family. In general though guns are not worth as much as people think, the market is very slow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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