Terror attacks

[zipdog]

When I was in Texas a couple of weeks ago I went for dinner with one of my Texan colleagues. We spoke about the attack on Westminster bridge and he made the point that if that happened in the US the knife wielding attacker would have been quickly dispatched by any number of law abiding citizens with CCW permits. Made sense to me, although I would suspect that this type of attack would likely involve firearms rather than edged weapons in the US but an interesting point on cultural differences nonetheless.

 

I have long though this should be the case. This war of terror is not traditional warfare involving two army's on a battlefield, its war on the citizens of western countries.

 

The police have responded with remarkable speed and great courage and professionalism but there will always be a delay which allows a window of opportunity. I cannot see any reason as to why well vetted citizens (section one holders), who currently possess large calibre rifles, with an unrestricted magazine capacity, cannot be allowed to carry a concealed pistol to counter such a threat if it arises.

 

As the law stand I can happily jolly about transporting my guns using the London Underground if so required but I'm 'far to dangerous' to transport a weapon small enough to be concealed.

[panoma1]

I agree with this entirely, its all to do with an overtly left wing ideology that has taken over this country. No I am not in any way advocating the far right but a more balanced approach that accepts that extremist ideology of any kind cannot be tolerated and is supported by a legal and security framework that protects the population rather than the "human rights" of the perpetrators.

 

Remember the legal fiasco when we wanted to extradite that nutter with the hook a few years ago? How much money, time and effort did that take whilst he was spreading his venomous hatred prior to getting kicked out.

Was it not EU law that prevented the U.K. From kicking him out? He raised and supported a family on benefits provided by us (the kafir) whilst openly preaching hate and biting the hand that fed him....gutless backstabbing scumbag!

And our government are the fools that allowed it to happen....is it any wonder Islamic extremists see us as stupid, soft, weak kafir and despise us for it?

[Scully]

The trouble is in America a lot of innocent law abiding citizens get dispatched by people with concealed weapons permits.

 

 

Link?

[Vince Green]

Was it not EU law that prevented the U.K. From kicking him out? He raised and supported a family on benefits provided by us (the kafir) whilst openly preaching hate and biting the hand that fed him....gutless backstabbing scumbag!

And our government are the fools that allowed it to happen....is it any wonder Islamic extremists see us as stupid, soft, weak kafir and despise us for it?

The European Convention on Human Rights is separate from European law and we will still be bound by it when we leave the EU unless we revoke or suspend our signature. We could do that now as an emergency measure if we chose. I don't think many would disagree that we have a good reason.

 

Even so our interpretation of the convention has been crazy in the extreme interpretation placed upon some of the conventions. Far more extreme than other countries.

 

Things like people not being deported because they have a cat.

[Wingman]

Things like people not being deported because they have a cat.

 

Seriously? So a radical fundamentalist on the brink of deportation can nip down to the local RSPCA centre and enlist tiddles to the cause. Bingo! he lives to claim another benefit payment and blow up a concert.

 

This country is screwed.....

[silver fox 1]

Random as it maybe (and whilst I'm no fan of poetry) I rather liked this:

+1

[toontastic]

 

Seriously? So a radical fundamentalist on the brink of deportation can nip down to the local RSPCA centre and enlist tiddles to the cause. Bingo! he lives to claim another benefit payment and blow up a concert.

 

This country is screwed.....

It's a bit of a myth (sort of) that a man avoided deportation because he had a cat.

 

A Bolivian man who outstayed his visa had to prove his long term relationship was genuine. Amongst the list of things was the fact they had bought a cat together. So the cat contributed to proving his relationship was real but it wasn't the reason for his staying.

 

Funny enough it was Teresa May who started the myth that a man avoided deportation purely on the grounds he owned a cat.

Edited June 6, 2017 by toontastic

[Vince Green]

It's a bit of a myth (sort of) that a man avoided deportation because he had a cat.

 

A Bolivian man who outstayed his visa had to prove his long term relationship was genuine. Amongst the list of things was the fact they had bought a cat together. So the cat contributed to proving his relationship was real but it wasn't the reason for his staying.

 

Funny enough it was Teresa May who started the myth that a man avoided deportation purely on the grounds he owned a cat.

The principal that a man can overstay his visa and then claim he is in a relationship and be allowed to remain is still flawed

[Sha Bu Le]

After reading various posts above regarding who could/should be armed, from all police to sec 1 ticket holders and others. If we do not have sufficient trained and armed police available and the army may not always be called upon, we do have a resource fully weapons trained and very experienced.

 

That is the 100's of soldiers discharged from the army after serving their country in Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't know what it would take to have these men made ready to take on such a job, indeed if they as a whole would even want to.

 

What do members who are ex forces think, is such an idea viable or even feasible?

[Wingman]

Isn't that a militia?

[spanj]

Your point. ? If they doint trust the police to carry firearms there is non chance of civilians being allowed to carry firearms. Unless you live in this part of the UK and are at risk of a terrorist attack.

But we live in this part of the UK and seem to be at more risk of a terrorist attack than you lot now ...........

[ordnance]

 

 

That is the 100's of soldiers discharged from the army after serving their country in Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't know what it would take to have these men made ready to take on such a job, indeed if they as a whole would even want to.

No chance, if they wont arm the police they are not going to have a lot of X soldiers patrolling the streets.

[kyska]

Isn't that a militia?

Paramilitary

[Westley]

Am I correct in saying that once an armed officer shoots someone they are suspended until investigation is finished and that can take 2 years?

 

YES.

[ordnance]

But we live in this part of the UK and seem to be at more risk of a terrorist attack than you lot now ...........

Some civilians etc do carry firearms here for self defence because they are actively targeted by terrorists, what is happening in the rest of the UK is more random. There is no chance of civilians in mainland UK being allowed to carry for self defence, they don't even think the police need to be armed never mind civilians.

 

More than 1,100 people on paramilitary death lists in Northern Ireland are being allowed to carry guns for their own protection. Some 205 new personal protection weapon (PPW) licences – for people whose lives are under threat – were granted by the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) last year, a five-fold increase on the 42 issued in 2008. Almost a thousand (948) existing licences were re-approved – up from 375 in 2008. An estimated 500 "threat notices", known as PM1 forms, were issued last year by police to individuals under threat from terrorists, according to a police source.

In recognition of the special circumstances prevailing in Northern Ireland, the Chief Constable has given standing authority for all officers, subject to successful training, to be issued with a personal issue handgun which may be carried when officers are both on and off duty.

 

Edited June 6, 2017 by ordnance

[ordnance]

 

YES.

That is suspended from firearms duty i assume not policing. ?

[Westley]

That is suspended from firearms duty i assume not policing. ?

 

NOPE, it used to be and I presume it still is, BOTH ! I know of some Officers who have aged 10 years in the 18 months it took to decide N.F.A. (No Further Action). It was ALWAYS hammered home, "Nobody can order you to pull that trigger, you have to be able to justify doing so afterwards".

[ShootingEgg]

 

NOPE, it used to be and I presume it still is, BOTH ! I know of some Officers who have aged 10 years in the 18 months it took to decide N.F.A. (No Further Action). It was ALWAYS hammered home, "Nobody can order you to pull that trigger, you have to be able to justify doing so afterwards".

Think all 8 officers can justify Saturday night

[Squinting shot]

Police did a fantastic job only downside is they probably killed them too quickly would have been nice to have a wild bore rape them all first befor executing them. Unfortunate about the member of public who was hit.

[ordnance]

 

NOPE, it used to be and I presume it still is, BOTH ! I know of some Officers who have aged 10 years in the 18 months it took to decide N.F.A. (No Further Action). It was ALWAYS hammered home, "Nobody can order you to pull that trigger, you have to be able to justify doing so afterwards".

 

I doubt they will have much problems justifying it this time, but it is right that all shootings involving the police should be investigated and they justify their actions.

[toontastic]

 

I doubt they will have much problems justifying it this time, but it is right that all shootings involving the police should be investigated and they justify their actions.

+1 it just seems a shame that the process takes so long, and keeps good officers off the streets and stops them doing a sometimes thankless yet important task.

[Vince Green]

No chance, if they wont arm the police they are not going to have a lot of X soldiers patrolling the streets.

There are problems with arming the police

 

1) The time taken every shift to issue and hand back the firearms

 

2) The policing style of the British Bobby would have to change because they have to continually be aware of the need to protect their side arm from being snatched in a scuffle etc. Its not immediately obvious just how significant this difference would be in day to day policing

 

3) It could make the officer a target for terrorists wanting to obtain a firearm. Especially in the UK where the chances of obtaining one by other means is much slimmer.

[arm3000gt]

After reading various posts above regarding who could/should be armed, from all police to sec 1 ticket holders and others. If we do not have sufficient trained and armed police available and the army may not always be called upon, we do have a resource fully weapons trained and very experienced.

 

That is the 100's of soldiers discharged from the army after serving their country in Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't know what it would take to have these men made ready to take on such a job, indeed if they as a whole would even want to.

 

What do members who are ex forces think, is such an idea viable or even feasible?

Who would police the ex soldiers? Which ones would you select out of the thousands? Soldiers were held in check by military doctrine and the command structure. To recreate that usable structure and make it into a functioning force. Might as well just create a new military or police unit and use the structure already in place. Obviously if able include ex forces personnel if they are suitable for the roll. Just because they've carried firearms in a war zone does not make them automatically suitable to do the same in a domestic civilian environment.

[ordnance]

There are problems with arming the police

 

1) The time taken every shift to issue and hand back the firearms

 

2) The policing style of the British Bobby would have to change because they have to continually be aware of the need to protect their side arm from being snatched in a scuffle etc. Its not immediately obvious just how significant this difference would be in day to day policing

 

3) It could make the officer a target for terrorists wanting to obtain a firearm. Especially in the UK where the chances of obtaining one by other means is much slimmer.

 

I understand your and others views, but all i can go on is what happens here and none of the things you posted are a issue. They are even armed here when arresting Minions.

[gustaff]

Think all 8 officers can justify Saturday night

give them all medals they deserve them