Dazza9t9 Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 Evening all. I'm after some help and advice on 22lr shooting. It is more to do with distancing, safe back stops and just generally safe shooting. I've been shot gun shooting a number of years now, covering a fair few types. I would class my self as a extremely safe shooter, both handling and taking shots. Overly cautious (if that's possible) in relation to the fall of the pellets despite them being spent. So I'm moving into the world of rifles, now this is whole different animal. I am more than happy with the handling etc I am just a little worried on the shooting and back stops. I was a member of a rifle club for some time. However it's a lot different shooting against a wall in a range to out in the field. I know a solid back stop is need at all times. However if I am shooting laid down on a bipod, at a rabbit, if I miss how far will the bullet travel? Will it hit the ground disperse its energy and either go into the ground or travel a short distance further before being spent? From my research at a 45 degree angle the bullet can travel up to 1 mile, I will not be shooting up in the air anyway. I am surprised at how little information there is on this subject, most of what I have found is about shooting straight up or at a 45 degree angel which I won't be doing. If anyone can offer me some practical advice and help. I want to be 100% happy I will not take any shot if I am not 100% happy with it and I am alway away richochete can occur Equally are there any good books out there around 22lr shooting etc Thank you all in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 AG's Book of the Rifle is a good read on .22 field shooting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 (edited) Whatever you are shooting regardless of calibre, once that bullet leaves the end of the barrel it is it's own free agent and do as it pleases regardless of all the thought you put into setting it on it's journey. All you can do is make an intelligent assessment of the likely danger. Make up of the ground you are shooting on will play a big part because even if you shoot from a high seat and the ground is 50% flint then the chances of one bouncing away into the wide blue yonder is amplified. The variables are many and only you at the time can make an assessment as to how safe the shot is. I had a friend shoot a big fallow buck about 100yrds away in a shallow valley with the ground rising up in a bank on the other side. The bullet went through the buck, hit something hard and took off into the air travelling another couple of hundred yards and going straight through the side window of his truck. Looking at the shot you would have been 100% certain that was a very safe shot, but he could not see the stone, brick or whatever that bullet struck. Think safety and then think again. Can I just say well done for asking the question. A 22RF bullet can carry a long way and will still have enough energy to cause serious injury if not death. Edited August 20, 2017 by Walker570 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza9t9 Posted August 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 Thank you for the responses and I definatley take that on board about the bullet being of its own free will once it's left the barrel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benthejockey Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 Just a quick google of 22rf bullet drop charts will give you a good idea. The one I looked at now gives a standard 40g 22 bullet 26 inches of drop at 150yds. If you're lying prone say 12 inches off the ground and your shot was perfectly parallel to the ground by the time it gets to 125yds it should in theory be 3 inches in the ground. However thats not an ideal shot to take due to the chance of a ricochet because of the angle the bullet would hit the ground. Imagine you're skimming a stone. A better shot would be from an elevated position so that you're shooting down into the ground rather than along it which encourages the bullet to bury itself rather than bounce. An elevated position can be anything from being sat on higher ground, leaning on a bonnet or fence posts, shooting off sticks or sitting in a high seat. 22 bullets can be a bit 'bouncy' regardless of how you shoot them because of their heavy weight and slower speed but it can happen with any bullet - I've had 17HMR bullets go zinging off into the distance before. Even what you think is the safest shot in the world could go differently to how you imagine it to. Just search on here for some of the weird things bullets have done when they've hit the target - I head shot a rabbit with the HMR and shrapnel came out the middle of its back. As long as you make sure you have a good backstop and shoot sensibly and safely you will be fine. And most importantly enjoy yourself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza9t9 Posted August 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 Ben that is some great information thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 Bear in mind that even when you think you are shooting flat on a bipod, over any sort of distance the barrel is in fact pointing above horizontal to take the trajectory and distance into account. As with any calibre, I always look at the target animal then imagine it isn't there and see what I would hit if I missed it. Like if there is a hill behind it, great, but if you only see sky, that's bad. If you don't know what you would hit, that's even worse. Once you've done it a few times, it's just common sense. As above, you'll be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 As already suggested - once the bullet leaves your barrel it's pretty much in the lap of the Gods, all we can ensure that we do is be as certain as humanly possible that a safe fall out is available beyond your target. Even shooting into a sizeable hill (decoying pigeons with Deeks about 70 yards from the hide) I have had bullets (.22lr) hit a stone and disappear into the yonder blue sky - they sound like a Hornet! As long as you are aware of the tendency of the RF to fly solo then you should be fine and I think that there are relatively few accidents compared to the number of guns in the UK to prove that, on the whole, we are a pretty sensible lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 I generally shoot off sticks now - means I don't have to get down on wet ground and means I'm normally shooting downwards. Shot and killed a rabbit the other day and still heard a ricochet. Don't know whether I went right through or what happened but fortunately it didn't cause any damage. 17HMR is great for longer ranges but is noisier and more expensive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFC Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 I shot a rabbit in the head at 75yrds and almost instantly heard a second crack after the one of the bullet hitting the Rabbit's skull. There was a derelict shed 10 yards to the right of the Rabbit and, when I picked it up, I could see the entry hole between the eye and the ear of the Rabbit but there was an inch flap in the top of its skull. When I looked at the shed I was amazed to see the bullet hole in the corner of a window pane and the hole was 6ft off the ground. The bullet had ricocheted at right angles through the bunnies head so I always take of everything around the target as well as behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooter Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 I read a post on another forum on the same subject, and the answers given to maximum distance were intriguing. One poster had fired his .22lr into a lake, increasing the distance between him and the lake with each shot. He managed to get 800 yards back before the bullet stopped reaching the lake. After reading it I gave it a go on a filled quarry, and found more or less the same, depending on ammo manufacturer. I also read a post by a father and son seeing how far the humble .22lr is effective. They wrapped an oven ready turkey in some clothes and manage to shoot it out to 250yds, with the bullet still passing more or less through the turkey. One thing that can happen with a ricochet, which the 22lr does rather a lot, is that the bullet accelerates. Regardless of the speed the bullet will run out of energy long before it gets to a mile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
243deer Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 I find I get a lot less ricochets when shooting rabbits on grassy meadows when compared to stubble and as above heard the worrying zing of a ricochet last Thursday night after hitting a bunny squarely in the head from 40 yards off sticks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 You can actually bounce one off water as well ... been there done that, in my stupid youth and didn't know better. Back in the early 1950s 22RF cartridges where in plentiful supply from Home Guard stores and my grandfather had a fairly large cardboard box full of all sorts, including some nice shiny silver cased HP Winchester. I had a small single shot bolt action 22RF rifle which we used to shoot tin cans off the fence with in the main, but on one occasion I remember being alongside a fairly large lake on a calm summers evening and some ducks were out about 75yrds. I let one go at the nearest duck and saw the bullet skip short of the duck and then make a series of hits on the surface across to the far bank close to 300yrds away. Never did that again!! One of the many lessons I have learned in life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza9t9 Posted August 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 Thank you all for the advice and experiences. This is all expertly what I was after and I will take it on board Thank you and keep it coming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 Never heard of a bullet accelerating after a Ricochet, cooter, and cannot see how this could be? I can only imagine that if the bullet were smashed almost flat by the impact then the flat disc remaining would be more aerodynamic but then the impact needed to cause such deformation would absorb the majority of the bullets energy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 Cci segmented is a very good solution to ricochet .22 lr . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) Just a quick google of 22rf bullet drop charts will give you a good idea. The one I looked at now gives a standard 40g 22 bullet 26 inches of drop at 150yds. If you're lying prone say 12 inches off the ground and your shot was perfectly parallel to the ground by the time it gets to 125yds it should in theory be 3 inches in the ground. However thats not an ideal shot to take due to the chance of a ricochet because of the angle the bullet would hit the ground. Imagine you're skimming a stone. A better shot would be from an elevated position so that you're shooting down into the ground rather than along it which encourages the bullet to bury itself rather than bounce. An elevated position can be anything from being sat on higher ground, leaning on a bonnet or fence posts, shooting off sticks or sitting in a high seat. 22 bullets can be a bit 'bouncy' regardless of how you shoot them because of their heavy weight and slower speed but it can happen with any bullet - I've had 17HMR bullets go zinging off into the distance before. Even what you think is the safest shot in the world could go differently to how you imagine it to. Just search on here for some of the weird things bullets have done when they've hit the target - I head shot a rabbit with the HMR and shrapnel came out the middle of its back. As long as you make sure you have a good backstop and shoot sensibly and safely you will be fine. And most importantly enjoy yourself! "The one I looked at now gives a standard 40g 22 bullet 26 inches of drop at 150yds. If you're lying prone say 12 inches off the ground and your shot was perfectly parallel to the ground by the time it gets to 125yds it should in theory be 3 inches in the ground." What about the rifle zero point!? With a 100yard zero this shows a drop of 4.49" at 125yards. https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=3APaNpfw&id=DFE8CFC9841E4923A3D70094BDF7F784C733F7EB&thid=OIP.3APaNpfwnXkWXD06bbv40AEpDR&q=.22lr+trajectory+chart&simid=608006154929242847&selectedIndex=0&qpvt=.22lr+trajectory+chart&ajaxhist=0 This is useful, a whole load of ammo, and one or two of the subs have around 26" drop at 150 yards, IF you have a 50 yards zero! https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=S9z0jWsV&id=771A8DE961DCC7982B35DB80AC7AF975B1CA21B8&thid=OIP.S9z0jWsVgmKyVuXoUH6gMAEsC3&q=22lr+trajectory+chart&simid=607987630738900174&selectedIndex=13&qpvt=22lr+trajectory+chart&ajaxhist=0 "However thats not an ideal shot to take due to the chance of a ricochet because of the angle the bullet would hit the ground" I take virtually EVERY shot out in the field with EVERY calibre I own from some support, and most commonly that support is a Bipod, hitting your quarry with the right calibre and ammo goes a long way to avoiding the bullet hitting the ground, and a seriously long way to avoiding a ricochet! ATB! Edited August 21, 2017 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) Never heard of a bullet accelerating after a Ricochet, cooter, and cannot see how this could be? I can only imagine that if the bullet were smashed almost flat by the impact then the flat disc remaining would be more aerodynamic but then the impact needed to cause such deformation would absorb the majority of the bullets energy? THIS Read a good book a few years ago - Rifles & Ammunition, by Ommundsen & Robinson In it they did exhaustive tests on .303 ammunition, etc. One of their findings was that a ricochet is all but spent, the noise being due to the un-aerodynamic shape it has when passing through air. They cited numerous examples of people being hit by such bullets with no injury caused... The phenomenon of bullets & water is akin to them bouncing (as in flat stones, Barnes Wallis bombs for 617 Sqdn, etc.), not ricocheting, so a different kettle of fish NEVER heard of bullets picking up speed once they've left the barrel Edited August 21, 2017 by saddler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 Cci segmented is a very good solution to ricochet .22 lr . Simply hitting your quarry with the right calibre and ammo goes a long way to avoiding a ricochet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 Never heard of a bullet accelerating after a Ricochet, cooter, and cannot see how this could be? I can only imagine that if the bullet were smashed almost flat by the impact then the flat disc remaining would be more aerodynamic but then the impact needed to cause such deformation would absorb the majority of the bullets energy? :yes: :yes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) Then explain the very dead, perfectly hit fallow buck and a hole through his truck window. He recovered the bullet by the way. Plus after many many years of shooting, some of us are not super special who never have a miss. Simply hitting your quarry with the right calibre and ammo goes a long way to avoiding a ricochet! Edited August 21, 2017 by Walker570 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benthejockey Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 http://achievingadventure.com/blogs/cleversurvivalist/2013/08/12/value-of-sectional-density-trajectory-chart-bullet-weight-bcac3/ That's the chart I quickly looked up this morning Dekers. A 50yd zero with a 22 isn't unfeasible especially using subs. I regularly use a 50yd zero because it works well with a particular load of mine for the 243 with a MPBR of 230 yds. A light bullet going very fast is always going to be less prone to ricochet than a heavy bullet going slowly. To a point you're right obviously bury the bullet inside a nice big squishy animal carcass and it can't go anywhere but I've even had air gun pellets exit a rabbits head and hit the tin shed behind it which is why you still should be aware that the bullets can and will do unexpected things. And once they're out there singing along at X many 000's of feet per second even Lewis Hamilton in his Maclaren isn't going to catch them and bring them back for another go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Heron Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 All I would advise is no matter what position you shoot from the back stop is the most important thing I shoot a lot from sticks as a lot of my ground is fairly flat and sticks give you a down angle which is good for rabbits but you still need to be aware of ricochets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 22, 2017 Report Share Posted August 22, 2017 Get as close as you possibly can, to ensure a good solid hit, then you needn't worry too much about ricochets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted August 22, 2017 Report Share Posted August 22, 2017 (edited) "The one I looked at now gives a standard 40g 22 bullet 26 inches of drop at 150yds. If you're lying prone say 12 inches off the ground and your shot was perfectly parallel to the ground by the time it gets to 125yds it should in theory be 3 inches in the ground." What about the rifle zero point!? With a 100yard zero this shows a drop of 4.49" at 125yards. https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=3APaNpfw&id=DFE8CFC9841E4923A3D70094BDF7F784C733F7EB&thid=OIP.3APaNpfwnXkWXD06bbv40AEpDR&q=.22lr+trajectory+chart&simid=608006154929242847&selectedIndex=0&qpvt=.22lr+trajectory+chart&ajaxhist=0 This is useful, a whole load of ammo, and one or two of the subs have around 26" drop at 150 yards, IF you have a 50 yards zero! https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=S9z0jWsV&id=771A8DE961DCC7982B35DB80AC7AF975B1CA21B8&thid=OIP.S9z0jWsVgmKyVuXoUH6gMAEsC3&q=22lr+trajectory+chart&simid=607987630738900174&selectedIndex=13&qpvt=22lr+trajectory+chart&ajaxhist=0 "However thats not an ideal shot to take due to the chance of a ricochet because of the angle the bullet would hit the ground" I take virtually EVERY shot out in the field with EVERY calibre I own from some support, and most commonly that support is a Bipod, hitting your quarry with the right calibre and ammo goes a long way to avoiding the bullet hitting the ground, and a seriously long way to avoiding a ricochet! ATB! This is rather like the first zero. If you have a 50 yard zero, then the bullet path will be -14.48" at 125 yards If you have a 100 yard zero, then the bullet path will be -4.49" at 125 yards If you have a 125 yard zero, then the bullet path will be 0 at 125 yards In all three examples the bullet drop witll be - 28.08" Edited August 22, 2017 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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