Disgusting

[ips]

22 minutes ago, Stimo22 said:

When you beat several times a week it is not possible to take a brace every time. 

Surely it would be possible for Pigeon Watch to add  section on members profile to say if people want to take game. Also the first two letters of postcode. If it was done so that members could filter a search so when we know that game will be available they can message others. 

This would be a real bonus for all concerned and a message that we are doing something about a problem. So come on pigeon watch

 

good idea.

[jam1e]

19 hours ago, Seadog1408 said:

if I didn't eat what I shoot, I wouldn't bother shooting game.

+1. And to think i was berated for taking one bird with a rimfire for a family stew! 

 

[Dekers]

6 minutes ago, jam1e said:

 20 hours ago, Seadog1408 said:

if I didn't eat what I shoot, I wouldn't bother shooting game.

+1. And to think i was berated for taking one bird with a rimfire for a family stew! 

Who knows the circumstances of your bird with a rimfire, but that was your choice and it sounds like someone did not approve of your gun choice for that task!

I see it as absolutely fine and your choice ...if I didn't eat what I shoot, I wouldn't bother shooting game. , just like its the guns choice NOT to take birds if they so choose!

What's wrong with that?

[mudpatten]

 

Personally I think we`ve lost our moral compass.

Shooting is`nt an "industry", It`s a lifestyle thats been hijacked by people only interested in money.

The very essence of the moral justification of shooting is to eat the quarry. The eating justifies the killing. Not to do that reinforces the stereotype that we are "crazed by blood lust and just want to kill living creatures."

Not eating the birds makes a mockery of the justification for the concept of the sustainable harvest and wise use of a resource.

Modern game shooting which produces birds that don`t enter the food chain and those who facillitate and partake of it has become killing for pleasure with no regard for the consequences.

 

It WILL bite us on the backside.

 

[Dekers]

11 minutes ago, mudpatten said:

 

Personally I think we`ve lost our moral compass.

Shooting is`nt an "industry", It`s a lifestyle thats been hijacked by people only interested in money.

The very essence of the moral justification of shooting is to eat the quarry. The eating justifies the killing. Not to do that reinforces the stereotype that we are "crazed by blood lust and just want to kill living creatures."

Not eating the birds makes a mockery of the justification for the concept of the sustainable harvest and wise use of a resource.

Modern game shooting which produces birds that don`t enter the food chain and those who facillitate and partake of it has become killing for pleasure with no regard for the consequences.

 

It WILL bite us on the backside.

 

 

?????

So, you are saying every wood pigeon, rabbit, Canada goose, etc., etc., which gets shot as part of the lifestyle finds its way into the food chain?

Or is it simply because money is involved the rules are different?

[islandgun]

32 minutes ago, mudpatten said:

 

Personally I think we`ve lost our moral compass.

Shooting is`nt an "industry", It`s a lifestyle thats been hijacked by people only interested in money.

The very essence of the moral justification of shooting is to eat the quarry. The eating justifies the killing. Not to do that reinforces the stereotype that we are "crazed by blood lust and just want to kill living creatures."

Not eating the birds makes a mockery of the justification for the concept of the sustainable harvest and wise use of a resource.

Modern game shooting which produces birds that don`t enter the food chain and those who facillitate and partake of it has become killing for pleasure with no regard for the consequences.

 

It WILL bite us on the backside.

 

spot on

[dipper]

Over the last few shoots. I've shot on several different shoots .I always take birds home usually more than a brace.And most of them have been in a shocking state most dog damage .ive watched on several occasions 2 dog with a pheasant.The end product looks like a crocodiles had hold of it.Hard mouth dogs , Heavy cartridges big shot' .When they're dressed thay look a mess .When the keepers short of   beaters anyone with a dog will do.Theres a lot of hard mouthed dogs out there .Dipper.

[Me matt]

3 minutes ago, dipper said:

Over the last few shoots. I've shot on several different shoots .I always take birds home usually more than a brace.And most of them have been in a shocking state most dog damage .ive watched on several occasions 2 dog with a pheasant.The end product looks like a crocodiles had hold of it.Hard mouth dogs , Heavy cartridges big shot' .When they're dressed thay look a mess .When the keepers short of   beaters anyone with a dog will do.Theres a lot of hard mouthed dogs out there .Dipper.

Makes a lot of sense ?

[AYA117]

40 minutes ago, Dekers said:

 

?????

So, you are saying every wood pigeon, rabbit, Canada goose, etc., etc., which gets shot as part of the lifestyle finds its way into the food chain?

Or is it simply because money is involved the rules are different?

Can you really not see that this is different ? Pheasants and Partridges are only bred to be shot ! What other reason is there ?  If a WILD pigeon,rabbit,Canada goose is wasted then that is equally wrong.But we are talking about hundreds of the same species being shot in the knowledge that at the end of the day they will be burnt or buried !!!!  

Just for reference,I have shot for over 40 years and that includes all forms of our beloved 'sport' apart from Grouse !

[Dekers]

46 minutes ago, AYA117 said:

Can you really not see that this is different ? Pheasants and Partridges are only bred to be shot ! What other reason is there ?  If a WILD pigeon,rabbit,Canada goose is wasted then that is equally wrong.But we are talking about hundreds of the same species being shot in the knowledge that at the end of the day they will be burnt or buried !!!!  

Just for reference,I have shot for over 40 years and that includes all forms of our beloved 'sport' apart from Grouse !

There is no difference except money.  The end result is the same.   Some people have decided to make some sort of personal moral decision/judgement that's all. 

It's a problem that I personally have not seen in many years of shooting, so perhaps "some" shoots need educating rather than a few here getting on their high horse!

My last shoot delivered 552 birds (Pheasant and Partridge), that was a good day, 250 is a bad day and around 400 is normal.  NONE get buried or burnt (except the few that may be destroyed).

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by Dekers

[Scully]

6 hours ago, Dekers said:

Not heard that before, cheers!

I hadn’t either. Everyday s a school day.

[CharlieT]

With upwards of 50 million game birds being released to be shot with the ever growing popularity of driven shooting, it is inevitable that disposing of shot game is becoming difficult.

Until recently, 80% of shot game has been exported to Europe. Regrettably, that market has shrunk considerably, leaving the UK market over supplied.

Even if every gun took a brace home, that leaves 10's of thousands of birds to be disposed of and the high cost of turning these into a marketable product requires a little ingenuity and effort which has nothing whatsoever with the guns but is the sole responsibility of the shoot. 

As an example, at great cost, we, quite rightly, sort the birds and those fit to be put into the food chain are processed and packed and either given away locally or sold. But, and it's a big but, when competing with the many other local shoots shooting 4/5 days a week, shooting say 500 birds a day is not an easy task.

There is, I regret, no easy answer.

 

 

 

[AYA117]

The answer I fear will not come from us,but the answer will one day come !  With the same amount of people wanting to shoot driven game,can you imagine what the per bird price would be if for example there was a maximum 200 birds a day ?

[wymberley]

2 hours ago, mudpatten said:

 

Personally I think we`ve lost our moral compass.

Shooting is`nt an "industry", It`s a lifestyle thats been hijacked by people only interested in money.

The very essence of the moral justification of shooting is to eat the quarry. The eating justifies the killing. Not to do that reinforces the stereotype that we are "crazed by blood lust and just want to kill living creatures."

Not eating the birds makes a mockery of the justification for the concept of the sustainable harvest and wise use of a resource.

Modern game shooting which produces birds that don`t enter the food chain and those who facillitate and partake of it has become killing for pleasure with no regard for the consequences.

 

It WILL bite us on the backside.

 

Very good post for my money - food (no pun intended) for thought.

52 minutes ago, Scully said:

I hadn’t either. Everyday s a school day.

Hope my post wasn't misleading, but I'm pretty sure that it is correct.

[scotslad]

5 hours ago, mudpatten said:

 

Personally I think we`ve lost our moral compass.

Shooting is`nt an "industry", It`s a lifestyle thats been hijacked by people only interested in money.

The very essence of the moral justification of shooting is to eat the quarry. The eating justifies the killing. Not to do that reinforces the stereotype that we are "crazed by blood lust and just want to kill living creatures."

Not eating the birds makes a mockery of the justification for the concept of the sustainable harvest and wise use of a resource.

Modern game shooting which produces birds that don`t enter the food chain and those who facillitate and partake of it has become killing for pleasure with no regard for the consequences.

 

It WILL bite us on the backside.

 

While I agree with a lot of wot u say, it is also very simplistic and quite naïve.

 

Shooting has always been an industry, hell wildfowling was the original 'industry' with ur commercial punt gunners and boys operating the nets.

Even in the victorian days it was still an industry just the landowners had enough spare cash to foot the bill and the price of labour was cheap

 

I'm with some of the others I've worked my dogs on a lot of different shoots from the north of eng to the north of Scotland and never yet ever heard of birds being disposed off, yet.

But I can see the possibility arising now with game dealers not taking birds.

Wot is the reason that the European market has dried up?

 

Also before u throw too many stones at uk shooting, do many of u know how they do it in other counties?

In some countries if u buy a 50 bird day u actually get 50 live birds in a crate to release and shoot that day.

And more and more foreign countries are going along more modern uk shooting estate ideas, whih doesn't make it right, but in a modern world almost everything comes down to money/profit nowadays.

And to be honest the profis involvd in running asporting shoot/estate will be pretty small considering the risk, outlaw and work involved.

 

Ps

It may be a regional thing (or a wild bird thing?) but locally  partridge, duck,geese and pheasants are always numbered individually.

But grouse are always by the brace no matter where (and are sold that way too)

Dunno wot the score is on the few wild partridge manors still left, incase it is a wild bird thing

 

[AYA117]

Shooting has always been an industry, hell wildfowling was the original 'industry' with ur commercial punt gunners and boys operating the nets.   Quote !

 

And what did they do to stop 'market gunning' for Geese........................They banned the selling of wild geese !!!!!!

[Hamster]

5 hours ago, mudpatten said:

 

Personally I think we`ve lost our moral compass.

Shooting is`nt an "industry", It`s a lifestyle thats been hijacked by people only interested in money.

The very essence of the moral justification of shooting is to eat the quarry. The eating justifies the killing. Not to do that reinforces the stereotype that we are "crazed by blood lust and just want to kill living creatures."

Not eating the birds makes a mockery of the justification for the concept of the sustainable harvest and wise use of a resource.

Modern game shooting which produces birds that don`t enter the food chain and those who facillitate and partake of it has become killing for pleasure with no regard for the consequences.

 

It WILL bite us on the backside.

 

Well said and it will bite us soon enough, brace yourselves for the day a highly one sided emotive documentary will be made that will turn non shooting folks stomach and portray game shooters and estates participating in such heinous practices as blood thirsty and soulless and we will be tainted for not speaking up. 

If you're breeding and/or releasing live creatures in the full knowledge that you have zero means of finding a useful end use for them then you might as well turn the shoot into a clay target one, there is no moral justification for breeding targets. 

[Scully]

35 minutes ago, AYA117 said:

Shooting has always been an industry, hell wildfowling was the original 'industry' with ur commercial punt gunners and boys operating the nets.   Quote !

 

And what did they do to stop 'market gunning' for Geese........................They banned the selling of wild geese !!!!!!

You’re correct. There is no moral justification for breeding targets, but that is what we have done for generations. We have bred to kill for ‘sport’ ever since people no longer needed to rely on shooting for sustenance.

Every single person in this forum who kills live quarry but doesn’t depend on it as part of their income, does it for sport. 

I have no problems with this. If, like all those who do have a problem with it, needn’t do it. It’s not compulsory, so I suggest you cease immediately.

Each shooter taking home a brace at the days end isn’t going to solve this problem so they can hardly be held responsible.

 But before you start blaming the landowners and big commercial shoots instead, it may be worth pondering if we would all be shooting today without them.

i have no idea why I have quoted a post; I didn’t intend to quote any! 

Edited November 19, 2017 by Scully

[AYA117]

14 minutes ago, Hamster said:

Well said and it will bite us soon enough, brace yourselves for the day a highly one sided emotive documentary will be made that will turn non shooting folks stomach and portray game shooters and estates participating in such heinous practices as blood thirsty and soulless and we will be tainted for not speaking up. 

If you're breeding and/or releasing live creatures in the full knowledge that you have zero means of finding a useful end use for them then you might as well turn the shoot into a clay target one, there is no moral justification for breeding targets. 

I fear the end will come and in true central gov. tradition it come in a completely irrational knee jerk form and probably ban the rearing of 'wild'game,I hope not but can you really see it not happening ?  Either people in the 'sport' change it from within (No chance ,as too much money involved) or it is changed for us !

[wymberley]

24 minutes ago, Hamster said:

Well said and it will bite us soon enough, brace yourselves for the day a highly one sided emotive documentary will be made that will turn non shooting folks stomach and portray game shooters and estates participating in such heinous practices as blood thirsty and soulless and we will be tainted for not speaking up. 

If you're breeding and/or releasing live creatures in the full knowledge that you have zero means of finding a useful end use for them then you might as well turn the shoot into a clay target one, there is no moral justification for breeding targets. 

If anything I fear it will be this that does for the driven reared bird shooting. No matter how forceful or eloquent any response is it will be too late the damage will have been done.

[motty]

11 hours ago, mattyg1086 said:

I was saddened that one or  two guns took a brace and me, the keeper and his dad split the rest. Now it took me the rest of the afternoon almost to breast the partridge and the pigeon(which is my favourite) out  but it will save me a few quid over the week in food.  There are three shoots that have clubbed together and bought the incinerator because they shoot so many birds that even those who take them don't take them all.  My point is this if your not going to eat it my personal view is your only there for the killing which does not paint our sport in a good light if you do take a brace or two or even ten and there is still birds left at the end the why are they shooting so many it's not a competition in how many can you slaughter you are out for the day with like minded people working their dogs to provide good challenging game to shoot at and at the end of the day your have the food you have harvested completing the cycle.   It is just my opinion that it's wrong to shoot so many and not take them with you I am taking some into work to a Romanian colleague who is desperate for some wild meat that he used to have back home and I thint it's great to share with people you know and help to feed other families  it's the hunter gatherer in me I guess providing for the village??

I shoot more pigeons than I could ever realistically eat. I shoot them for sport. If I couldn't sell them, it would put me in a difficult position.

[hawkfanz]

if i couldn,t use them i wouldn,t shoot them.each to their own.

[aga man]

25 minutes ago, motty said:

I shoot more pigeons than I could ever realistically eat. I shoot them for sport. If I couldn't sell them, it would put me in a difficult position.

Yep same here and for the first time in thirty years I have been faced with the problem of shifting my birds which has bothered me. However diversifying my outlets and liasing with farmers and being selective as to when I shoot my bags as helped the situation. Game shoots however are making no attempt to find alternative outlets and up here on the Yorkshire wolds, many hundreds of thousands of birds are being shot and incinerated. I understand the birds are paid for and it is big business etc but the general public can read all about this now on open forums and  I feel we are all getting tarred with the same brush. Shooting sports are becoming uglier than ever and it is time the game shoots did something more positive with regards the use of dead birds.

 

[islandgun]

1 hour ago, Hamster said:

Well said and it will bite us soon enough, brace yourselves for the day a highly one sided emotive documentary will be made that will turn non shooting folks stomach and portray game shooters and estates participating in such heinous practices as blood thirsty and soulless and we will be tainted for not speaking up. 

If you're breeding and/or releasing live creatures in the full knowledge that you have zero means of finding a useful end use for them then you might as well turn the shoot into a clay target one, there is no moral justification for breeding targets. 

Correct,  its often hard to justify shooting but it would be impossible with the smoke of the incinerator stinging Chris Packhams eyes

Edited November 19, 2017 by islandgun

[aga man]

11 hours ago, scolopax said:

I have always thought the Americans have got it right in many regards relating to wild game, the law in which it is illegal to waste game meat in a prime example, ( I would also be in favour of the law regarding artificial feeding of wildfowl).

 

would the demise of the big commercial shoots be such a bad thing, what are the pros and cons for such enterprises? .

Very good point, they all claim to be pro conservation but how? Most big estates I shoot pigeon on do very little in the way of vermin control.