Shooting wild goats - news story

[Mice!]

50 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

they just see the piece of meat, shrinkwrapped on the shelves at the local Tesco......the public do not want to see dead animals.....so don't show it to them!....if we do, we will get this reaction every time! 

like the screen shot TT put on, my kids were helping pluck some pheasants two weeks ago, my sister in law said the exact same thing "disgusting! just buy it like everyone else"

folk want food but don't want to see how it gets there.

[grrclark]

44 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

The non shooting public, quite rightly in my opinion, don't understand the need of some shooters/hunters to publicise, brag and crow about their successes! All it does is "add fuel to the fire" of the antis by drawing the publics focus solely on the "kill" as opposed to all the many other positive things that make up an enjoyable and healthy day in the field!

The public do not see, so are not focussed on the beast being slaughtered in the slaughterhouse, or kicking on the floor after being stunned, or hung up bled, skinned and gutted!.......... they just see the piece of meat, shrinkwrapped on the shelves at the local Tesco......the public do not want to see dead animals.....so don't show it to them!....if we do, we will get this reaction every time!

I mostly agree with that.

I’m not one for trying to hide shooting and hunting as a guilty secret for fear of offending those who are just crying out to be offended.

I wouldn’t stop butchers hanging a carcass or having a pig head, brace of birds in a window display, etc, in case that offends the overly sensitive,  meat comes from animals after all.

I do struggle to get my head around the trophy mentality of posing with the shot beast(s), or the very cliched picture of the beast with the rifle in the pic too.  Likewise with showing pics of the bag at the end of a shoot day.  

I know that will probably ruffle a few feathers amongst some on PW, I appreciate that some want to share an experience with the like minded and I like hearing about those experiences, but for myself I don’t need to see a pic of dead birds on a game cart or shot pigeons lined up in a field to appreciate the experience.

[Grandalf]

11 minutes ago, grrclark said:

I’m not one for trying to hide shooting and hunting as a guilty secret for fear of offending those who are just crying out to be offended.

I wouldn’t stop butchers hanging a carcass or having a pig head, brace of birds in a window display, etc, in case that offends the overly sensitive,  meat comes from animals after all.

I do struggle to get my head around the trophy mentality of posing with the shot beast(s), or the very cliched picture of the beast with the rifle in the pic too.  Likewise with showing pics of the bag at the end of a shoot day.  

I know that will probably ruffle a few feathers amongst some on PW, I appreciate that some want to share an experience with the like minded and I like hearing about those experiences, but for myself I don’t need to see a pic of dead birds on a game cart or shot pigeons lined up in a field to appreciate the experience.

Agreed.   I have hunted in one form or another all of my life.   (Nearly 80 and still at it).   Have never really been interested in the posed pictures of the 'after the shot' type.   I hunt because I enjoy it - and enjoy the eating afterwards too.   I did once post a picture on PW of me with my first red.   Always regretted it since as it is basically against my doctrine.

Be like the majority of us.   Stalk, shoot straight and safely, keep silent.

The lady wanted the publicity - Now she has it in spades and has to live with it. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 minute ago, Grandalf said:

Agreed.   I have hunted in one form or another all of my life.   (Nearly 80 and still at it).   Have never really been interested in the posed pictures of the 'after the shot' type.   I hunt because I enjoy it - and enjoy the eating afterwards too.   I did once post a picture on PW of me with my first red.   Always regretted it since as it is basically against my doctrine.

Be like the majority of us.   Stalk, shoot straight and safely, keep silent.

The lady wanted the publicity - Now she has it in spades and has to live with it. 

Indeed she has, but it is the ramifications of the area where she shot the beast that is the bigger problem.

[old'un]

1 hour ago, scotslad said:

 

But even still she can go back home its her stalker/guides/ghiles over the whole of scotland/uk that could lose jobs over this.

I do appreciate that WILD sheep in many countries offer some of the hardest stalking there is but not in UK, canned hunting at its worst.

Bt is she trying to encourage/promote other stupid hunters to come over and shoot tame sheep too???

Althou i bet most upland farmers would love it getting paid big money to get rid of there cast tups.

 

Not wanting to be critical of landowners/stalker but mibee they should of not allowed her to shoot a farmers sheep, but sadly i also apppreciate money talks, esp if someone is offering u Big money for something which is almost worthless,

 

Must admit social media is a massive problem nowadays, shooting will always have a very small minority who are very anti and very vocal, social media gives them the perfect platform to get  together and create even more noise.

But the problem isthe vast vast majority who really don' t care enough to look into it are esily fooled and while click stupid petions, yet they'd never sign the same petion in the street.

There will be a raft of petions now about banning various forms of stalking in scotland (the daft ******* don't even realise most of the highland rural houses/estates and whole economy of the past was built almost purely on stalking) They don't think farming some of the worst land in UK paid for all those beautiful big houses up there??

Even now stalking will bring in decent money, while i doubt it solely keeps many estates affloat definately keeps folk in jobs and kids in rural schools

1 hour ago, panoma1 said:

The non shooting public, quite rightly in my opinion, don't understand the need of some shooters/hunters to publicise, brag and crow about their successes! All it does is "add fuel to the fire" of the antis by drawing the publics focus solely on the "kill" as opposed to all the many other positive things that make up an enjoyable and healthy day in the field!

The public do not see, so are not focussed on the beast being slaughtered in the slaughterhouse, or kicking on the floor after being stunned, or hung up bled, skinned and gutted!.......... they just see the piece of meat, shrinkwrapped on the shelves at the local Tesco......the public do not want to see dead animals.....so don't show it to them!....if we do, we will get this reaction every time!

Could not agree more, two very good posts.

[Teal]

This is a massive storm in a teacup. It's surprised me how much airtime it's getting. I think it's the classic media thing of spoonfeeding the public something, and then unleashing a wave of selfrighteous anger.

They've been shooting feral goats for many years. If it was a photo of her with a stag getting this much press and publicity it would attract the same amount of looney tunes and their pals condemning it. Remember the Exmoor Emperor? Remember the danish Giraffe that was put to sleep in a zoo? The world went mental about it. But then the world moves on. There is no real issue here. She'll have been guided by a ghillie who will be there in case of injury anyway for swift dispatch, she'll also have to pass a shooting test before being allowed with them on the hill. 

Would I want to shoot a feral goat, no. But if someone else wants to and they need controlled then, big deal. Press on, I also think part of the publicity is because she's a woman, so the photos come up well. Media misogynistic and sexist, goodness who knew.

[old'un]

Talking of social media, I am not into social media (apart from PW) but I wonder how many of us who are into social media actually us it to counter the rubbish put out by the antis, some of the post above are very good and would counter a lot of the rubbish being spouted by the media/press, or are we just preaching to the converted on here?

[blackbird]

I think we the shooting community that includes myself do not help ourselves at all by posting pictures of shot game, I would suggest that the owners of this fantastic web site Pigeonwatch remove the “Sporting Pictures” section on the site, I know it’s our right to post but let’s not give the anti shooting folk any more ammunition.

[Mice!]

11 minutes ago, old'un said:

Talking of social media, I am not into social media (apart from PW) but I wonder how many of us who are into social media actually us it to counter the rubbish put out by the antis, some of the post above are very good and would counter a lot of the rubbish being spouted by the media/press, or are we just preaching to the converted on here?

Probably preaching to the converted, as an example there were several people basically arguing on Facebook a bit ago concerning a pox outbreak in Formby, despite all the usual points being put across by a lot of people about the need to control grey squirrels and remove them from red areas, there were plenty of folk who refused to believe it was needed.

Same folk will always agree and disagree, problem now is social media puts everything at your finger tips.

[old'un]

31 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I think we the shooting community that includes myself do not help ourselves at all by posting pictures of shot game, I would suggest that the owners of this fantastic web site Pigeonwatch remove the “Sporting Pictures” section on the site, I know it’s our right to post but let’s not give the anti shooting folk any more ammunition.

Must agree the posting of pictures of what we shoot will upset none shooting/sports people, you can bet your life that the antis hard drives are full of pictures posted here and elsewhere with write-ups of the day and praise from forum members on what they have killed, will these pictures be used against us in the future? Probably.

28 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Probably preaching to the converted, as an example there were several people basically arguing on Facebook a bit ago concerning a pox outbreak in Formby, despite all the usual points being put across by a lot of people about the need to control grey squirrels and remove them from red areas, there were plenty of folk who refused to believe it was needed.

Same folk will always agree and disagree, problem now is social media puts everything at your finger tips.

You will always get the bully boys, the people who will not see/hear your side of the argument and try to shout you down, there are some people on this and other shooting related forums that are very good at replying in an intelligent and eloquent way, (not me) I am sure that if they posted on some of these social media sites using this talent it would perhaps help balance the one sidedness of some of the attacks we see in the media, it might just make some of the public think again and push the scales of balance a little more in our favour, after all it is the public we need to convince not the converted.

[Teal]

56 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I think we the shooting community that includes myself do not help ourselves at all by posting pictures of shot game, I would suggest that the owners of this fantastic web site Pigeonwatch remove the “Sporting Pictures” section on the site, I know it’s our right to post but let’s not give the anti shooting folk any more ammunition.

You know I completely disagree with this. The more that shooting hides, shies away and covers up, the more "shocking" to a naive public it is when they see a photograph of a dead animal. There is nothing abnormal or wrong with showing a picture of shot game, or a dead animal with a writeup of the day. In fact if there was more public awareness, I believe that not only would these pieces not be big ticket news items, but also people would be far more conscious of where their food comes from and how life and death occurs.

In addition to this if shooting does crawl into a shell and hide away, where will new people interested and open minded about taking up a new hobby come from. That is the biggest threat to shooting in this country in my opinion. We should be far more open and honest, where there is malpractice is should be condemned, but for the most part shooting sports have nothing to hide.

[mossy835]

they want to go off to the states, live in a real world.this is one big nanny state

Edited October 25, 2018 by mossy835

[Ultrastu]

Just now, Teal said:

You know I completely disagree with this. The more that shooting hides, shies away and covers up, the more "shocking" to a naive public it is when they see a photograph of a dead animal. There is nothing abnormal or wrong with showing a picture of shot game, or a dead animal with a writeup of the day. In fact if there was more public awareness, I believe that not only would these pieces not be big ticket news items, but also people would be far more conscious of where their food comes from and how life and death occurs.

In addition to this if shooting does crawl into a shell and hide away, where will new people interested and open minded about taking up a new hobby come from. That is the biggest threat to shooting in this country in my opinion. We should be far more open and honest, where there is malpractice is should be condemned, but for the most part shooting sports have nothing to hide.

This exactly .

Flood scocial media with the normality of hunting and the positive benefits and we take a stronger position .

Shy away and hide and the mear mention of the word hunting in the future  will have the police banging on your door. 

Its a slippery slope. 

Lets start a "ME TO "campain 

Ie do you hunt ? yeah me too 

This errosion of rights .and the" lets all be offended"  by what some one else does boils my blood. 

 

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Teal said:

You know I completely disagree with this. The more that shooting hides, shies away and covers up, the more "shocking" to a naive public it is when they see a photograph of a dead animal. There is nothing abnormal or wrong with showing a picture of shot game, or a dead animal with a writeup of the day. In fact if there was more public awareness, I believe that not only would these pieces not be big ticket news items, but also people would be far more conscious of where their food comes from and how life and death occurs.

In addition to this if shooting does crawl into a shell and hide away, where will new people interested and open minded about taking up a new hobby come from. That is the biggest threat to shooting in this country in my opinion. We should be far more open and honest, where there is malpractice is should be condemned, but for the most part shooting sports have nothing to hide.

Couldn’t agree more. It’s not my sort of thing admittedly, but If you can’t show pictures of shot quarry particularly on a shooting  forum, where can you? 

Ive said it before; I really really really really really couldn’t care less what none shooting and in particular, antis think about what I do. I simply can’t stress enough just how little I care for their opinions. 

The lady in question is American, they have a shooting and in particular hunting culture which is ingrained into huge swaithes of their population, and totally alien to much of our population, which seem to be growing more and more spoilt and insulated against lifes realities with each passing day. 

I find it baffling why anyone would be daft enough to pay money to shoot a tame sheep then post the photos on social media, but like I said, she’s American. 

 

[Retsdon]

2 hours ago, Teal said:

I think it's the classic media thing of spoonfeeding the public something, and then unleashing a wave of selfrighteous anger.

No need to even think - that's exactly what it is. 

[bluesj]

As usual Scully gets it about spot on, worrying about what the antis think isn't going to do any good they are anti facts and truth are of no interest to then. 

The only point I would pick up on is do we know the sheep was tame or was it one that had done a runner and not been able to be rounded up?

[Retsdon]

14 minutes ago, Scully said:

find it baffling why anyone would be daft enough to pay money to shoot a tame sheep

How tame are they though?  They're feral but they live wild, and wild sheep are notoriously cagey beasts.

[bluesj]

3 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

How tame are they though?  They're feral but they live wild, and wild sheep are notoriously cagey beasts.

Even supposedly tame sheep can be a challenge at times! 

[Retsdon]

3 minutes ago, bluesj said:

Even supposedly tame sheep can be a challenge at times! 

Funny! That had me laughing out loud ..

[Ultrastu]

Just now, bluesj said:

As usual Scully gets it about spot on, worrying about what the antis think isn't going to do any good they are anti facts and truth are of no interest to then. 

The only point I would pick up on is do we know the sheep was tame or was it one that had done a runner and not been able to be rounded up?

Problem is if you just ignor the few antis they recruit more and influence the otherwise not bothered larger population .till all your left with is the vast majority who are against shooting .and then it gets banned as being the will of the people. Head in the sand isnt gonna save your sport. 

[henry d]

2 hours ago, Teal said:

You know I completely disagree with this. The more that shooting hides, shies away and covers up, the more "shocking" to a naive public it is when they see a photograph of a dead animal. There is nothing abnormal or wrong with showing a picture of shot game, or a dead animal with a writeup of the day. In fact if there was more public awareness, I believe that not only would these pieces not be big ticket news items, but also people would be far more conscious of where their food comes from and how life and death occurs.

In addition to this if shooting does crawl into a shell and hide away, where will new people interested and open minded about taking up a new hobby come from. That is the biggest threat to shooting in this country in my opinion. We should be far more open and honest, where there is malpractice is should be condemned, but for the most part shooting sports have nothing to hide.

Agreed.

I have also just been debating some male hen elsewhere as he posts loads of fishing videos and stills of the fish he has caught, and in the main puts back, and he is crowing about the goats being so easy to shoot as he has photos of some from around the "Argyll" area where they see humans on a daily basis. The mind boggles at the hypocrisy of some.

[bluesj]

10 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

Problem is if you just ignor the few antis they recruit more and influence the otherwise not bothered larger population .till all your left with is the vast majority who are against shooting .and then it gets banned as being the will of the people. Head in the sand isnt gonna save your sport. 

Ignore the antis, they are passed help but try to educate those that fall  into the not bothered / don't think I like that category  when you get the chance. I've managed to change someone that rents one of our units by just pointing him in the direction of a few youtube videos on big game hunting, Its not for him but he know sees the good that comes from it. But it could have been telling him that if he wasn't willing to pay someone  for a year to help track down and stop poachers in Africa then he should shut the F up

[Scully]

43 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

Problem is if you just ignor the few antis they recruit more and influence the otherwise not bothered larger population .till all your left with is the vast majority who are against shooting .and then it gets banned as being the will of the people. Head in the sand isnt gonna save your sport. 

I’m not suggesting we ignore them,  for the reasons you give above, just don’t pander to the things they find offensive. If they complain about the sight of a brace of pheasants  hanging up outside your house, hang up two, three or more brace. 

We can’t ignore their ignorances nor falsified claims or lies, because if they aren’t responded to with truths, facts and logic, then the lies become believed by those who know no better. 

I see it as great sport to confront and challenge the oft times idiotic and dubious claims and downright deceitful hypocrisy bandied about by these people. Some are simply innocently naive, gullible and ignorant, or misinformed, but many are just riddled with class hatred. 

[panoma1]

2 hours ago, Teal said:

You know I completely disagree with this. The more that shooting hides, shies away and covers up, the more "shocking" to a naive public it is when they see a photograph of a dead animal. There is nothing abnormal or wrong with showing a picture of shot game, or a dead animal with a writeup of the day. In fact if there was more public awareness, I believe that not only would these pieces not be big ticket news items, but also people would be far more conscious of where their food comes from and how life and death occurs.

In addition to this if shooting does crawl into a shell and hide away, where will new people interested and open minded about taking up a new hobby come from. That is the biggest threat to shooting in this country in my opinion. We should be far more open and honest, where there is malpractice is should be condemned, but for the most part shooting sports have nothing to hide.

It's not a question of hiding or shying away, the antis supported by the media, win support from a gullible public by using an "emotional" rather than "factual" argument.......why give them more nails with which to crucify us? 

I have no moral issues with, and will never deny what I do, I will debate It factually with anyone, but the antis, aided and abetted by a biased media are against us, killing things raises the "shock horror" emotion in the public, and that sells what the media are peddling!  They don't want to know about the "factual" side of fieldsports, so have no interest in reporting it impartially to an ignorant public.....The media, for commercial reasons, are the natural bedfellows of the anti fieldsports lobby.

The reason we are losing the argument, is not because what we do is immoral, cruel or wrong, but because no one has come up with a way of countering the dishonest, manipulation, by the antis (and the media) of human feelings (emotion)

 

 

[scotslad]

Agree with panama above, althou Teal and other do have very valid points.

 

For me the key thing is to somehow get throu to the press and educate them and this is wot basc and others should be doing taking jorno's out round 'proper' well run working/shooting estates then finish with some clays or rifle targets.

 

For me their is a massive element of class war/jealousy involved.

A suject i've hinted at before but in summer of 15 the John Muir Trust a scottish 'wildlife conservation charity' shot 86 stags on the hill and left them there to rot.

The only paper to ever publish anything about it was the aberdeenshire P&J which was mainly keepers/stalkers writing in to complain a well as SGA in their mag.

How no tabloid picked up on that is a miracle, plenty of photos of rotten carcusses on the hill. But if some rich toff done it for jollies would be everywhere

Where was Msp Mike Russells condemnation of that?? Or all the online numpties where was all their hatred and death threats??

Just makes no sense esp when u read about it and just how little of the land JMT own in that DMG area and shot over 100% of that years stag cull (think only own 11% on DMG area)

 

It is very hard to win a fight when ur constantly fighting with 1 hand behind ur back and other side using dirty tricks too