new licence published GL31

[ShropshireSam]

As suspected many restrictions including proof of trying non lethal control and ability to identify which crop you are protecting.

Pigeons cannot be shot for recreation or financial gain.

One listed non lethal control is the use of recordings of pigeon alarm calls!!  Maybe we can use a recording of nothing as evidence????

Can use evidence from previous years so need to take numerous photos of any crop damage.

Gove has taken control so hopefully Defra can do a better job????

[TIGHTCHOKE]

What a complete balls up!

[Old Boggy]

What a load of old tosh !!!

Table 1 

Advice on methods of control -:

Dress up a scarecrow, sit it in a chair with a stick, move it about often, then ......... replace it with yourself (sitting in a chair) with a gun and shoot !

Shoot to scare large flocks by scaring one bird that will then take the whole flock with it !! 

Lay out a 'wood pigeon model' with outstretched wings to look like a dead bird as the white bars will deter others !! It would appear that this bit has been written by someone seeing a decoyer, thinking that he's trying to scare birds not decoy them.

Who has written this absolute garbage ?

OB

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

30 minutes ago, Old Boggy said:

What a load of old tosh !!!

Table 1 

Advice on methods of control -:

Dress up a scarecrow, sit it in a chair with a stick, move it about often, then ......... replace it with yourself (sitting in a chair) with a gun and shoot !

Shoot to scare large flocks by scaring one bird that will then take the whole flock with it !! 

Lay out a 'wood pigeon model' with outstretched wings to look like a dead bird as the white bars will deter others !! It would appear that this bit has been written by someone seeing a decoyer, thinking that he's trying to scare birds not decoy them.

Who has written this absolute garbage ?

OB

 

The Government via its advisors!

[clakk]

Was this adviser called C.Packham by any chance or M, mouse after all this is turning into  a Disney cartoon ,its beyond a comedy of errors

[old man]

Can they be electronic calls?

What a sorry bunch of clowns. The way it's progressing WJ will have won on every score. 

[Stour-boy]

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

The Government via its advisors!

And they get paid for it !!!!!

[pixie]

Gave a copy to one of my farmers this morning. 9 pages, he fell about laughing. 

Sit in a chair in the middle of the field etc. 

[Konnie]

6 hours ago, clakk said:

Was this adviser called C.Packham by any chance or M, mouse after all this is turning into  a Disney cartoon ,its beyond a comedy of errors

Look how they made a cock up of brexit

 

And this is far far simpler to make a hash up of, so the sky is the limit.....

[butchdickason]

Absolute rubbish, get advice from NFU,BASC,CA, then put in place a sensible reform of the rules which were/are not needed to be altered in the first place.

[Walker570]

DEFRA   Department for the Eradication of Farming and all Rural Affairs. 

[Old Boggy]

14 hours ago, pixie said:

Gave a copy to one of my farmers this morning. 9 pages, he fell about laughing. 

Sit in a chair in the middle of the field etc. 

I also gave a copy to a farmer friend yesterday and he was not at all surprised at the ludicrous wording as he frequently deals with NE and DEFRA and commented "Written by civil servants as far remote from the countryside and its workings as you'll ever get"

OB

[JJsDad]

15 hours ago, pixie said:

Sit in a chair in the middle of the field etc. 

Anyone want to buy a couple of tidy camo nets plus 6 poles ?

I am going to try this idea of sitting in a field on a camping chair pretending I am a scarecrow. Sounds so revolutionary I am totaly amazed no-one has thought of this before !

I could throw in 3 hypa-flaps as well, because the incoming Pigeons apparently think they are dead, and it scares them off !

Hold my beer, this is an all new approach to Pigeon control. Cant wait to see what other pearls of wisdom we are going to get out of Natural England.

Edited May 5, 2019 by JJsDad

[lakeside1000]

OMG !!!!!!! What a read, so this is what they come up with after consultation with shooting lobby's,  apart from the 'sitting in a chair in the middle of the field, try that and see what the farmer has to say about crop damage!! the best laugh is 'play a recording of a wood pigeon's alarm call'  holy **** this is what we have to deal with, there is no hope now of getting back to a reasonable and sensible licence, as far as I can tell this new licence is now in force and runs until December this year , at which point they will issue another or not as they see fit.  

[Longstrider]

Pigeon alarm call ? Is there where they don't just go "Coo" but go " Coo 'Eck !" instead ?

My worry is that now DEFRA have been given the whole sorry mess to sort out they'll do so by starting again from the bottom rung so to speak. This will, of course, take forever as per anything that a Govt dept ever does other than produce hogwash and send a bill to those of us who actually do something useful for a living.

[la bala]

On 04/05/2019 at 07:44, ShropshireSam said:

As suspected many restrictions including proof of trying non lethal control and ability to identify which crop you are protecting.

Pigeons cannot be shot for recreation or financial gain.

One listed non lethal control is the use of recordings of pigeon alarm calls!!  Maybe we can use a recording of nothing as evidence????

Can use evidence from previous years so need to take numerous photos of any crop damage.

Gove has taken control so hopefully Defra can do a better job????

 

[la bala]

 

Pigeon Alarm Call.                                 What a joke, Who pays these people.

I hope BASC records all this tosh and shoves it down their throats.

[butchdickason]

This fiasco proves just how inefective our memberships to BASC,Country Side Alliance and any other fieldsport bodies is, they should of had this covered and sorted on day one of Packhams interferance, not allowed it to limp allong with stupid uninformed people making rules for us law abiding shooters to adhere to.  Another side of the argument is the fieldsport businesses that are loosing customers because of the ban, no one will buy guns or cartridges until this fiasco is sorted as well as the losses to farmers crops which is already mentioned.

PIGEON ALARM CALL ETC WHAT A LOAD OF RUBBISH.

[ShropshireSam]

10 minutes ago, butchdickason said:

This fiasco proves just how inefective our memberships to BASC,Country Side Alliance and any other fieldsport bodies is, they should of had this covered and sorted on day one of Packhams interferance,

Don't blame these organisations - Natural England revoked the new licences and released the new versions with no consultation with these bodies.  BASC has 55000+ members, with this number they have a strong lobbying ability.  They have repeatedly responded to criticise Natural Englands actions and helped in getting the licences under the Secretary of State's (Gove's) control.  BASC have built a positive relationship with Gove since he took up the role and and he has responded positively to BASC's position.  BASC meeting and "educating" government staff and MInisters goes largely unseen but is an important part of lobbying and could be a vital part of getting a satifactory result eventually ... but it will take time.

I think BASC have done all they could in this situation.  Unfortunately they have been inundated with GL queries  which has reduced there ability to deal with the situation as well as getting on with the usual workload.

(PS BASC member not employee!)

[butchdickason]

I do not blame the organisations for NE revoking the licences, but I do think your words... but it will take time is not good enough. Only my opinion.

[mossy835]

the orgs can only do so much,they can not make the law.we just have to wait that's why we have to fill in the servey.

[motty]

6 hours ago, butchdickason said:

This fiasco proves just how inefective our memberships to BASC,Country Side Alliance and any other fieldsport bodies is, they should of had this covered and sorted on day one of Packhams interferance, not allowed it to limp allong with stupid uninformed people making rules for us law abiding shooters to adhere to.  Another side of the argument is the fieldsport businesses that are loosing customers because of the ban, no one will buy guns or cartridges until this fiasco is sorted as well as the losses to farmers crops which is already mentioned.

PIGEON ALARM CALL ETC WHAT A LOAD OF RUBBISH.

I can't agree with this. Basc and the rest can only do so much.

[JJsDad]

10 hours ago, butchdickason said:

This fiasco proves just how inefective our memberships to BASC,Country Side Alliance and any other fieldsport bodies is,

All the country sports organisations and others like NFU etc were caught flat footed for the simple reason the legal challenge by Wild Justice was between them and Natural England (NE).

While NGO, BASC, CA etc may well have got a sniff that Packham & Co were up to no good, they had not been brought into the process and like NE had no indication that anything was badly amiss with the existing licence`s which have been in force for some considerable time. Until NE`s legal advisors looked into the challenge there was no indication that the challenge would be likely to succeed. As Motty has already indicated, the country sports organisations can lobby and advise only, and since this debacle started have been fighting tooth and nail, including working weekends to try to get some common sence into the licensing process. So I think your critisism is somewhat misdirected.

Perhaps you should drop a note to NE and DEFRA indicating that their Pigeon alarm call is apparently unavailable in most of the shops you have visited.

Couldnt help but notice from one of your replies to another thread (concerning the BASC survey), that you are not a BASC member, but appear happy to sit outside and say how inefective our membership is !

 

Edited May 10, 2019 by JJsDad

[butchdickason]

😄 I bought the decoys with spread wings that will scare the pigeon away.   I am delighted that the various organisations are working flat out to try and get  a sensible solution to the fiasco. reckon that is part of what we pay our subs for. I have been a member of the Countryside Alliance since it started, and  the CPSA since I started shooting , prior to the CA I was a member of BASC.

Edited May 11, 2019 by butchdickason

[kenholland]

I wonder if this will be sorted before next year's review at this rate I won't hold my breath, talk  talk talk talk , what does it take , just to get round the table and have a down to earth result it's not rocket science , I know it is easy for me to say and it is still early days yet , come on you orgs get it SORTED.