Brexit - merged threads

[pinfireman]

Just now, Scully said:

If you want to debate firearms legislation then we can start another thread, but 'Dunblane?' Yes, the Tories proposed the banning of CF handguns following Dunblane.  

Labour brought in the 1968 Firearms Act, that was the first piece of  legislation of any size since 1922.  This was after the Harry Roberts murders. And Labour  finalised the 1997 Firearms act, after the out-going Tory government  proposed a pistol ban....Labour added to it.

14 minutes ago, oowee said:

Is a vote not public opinion? 

The public opinion referred to was driven by the Press, not a vote.

[Raja Clavata]

Just now, Gordon R said:

You overestimate yourself. Perhaps you need some professional help.

oh the irony

[pinfireman]

13 hours ago, oowee said:

Another Tory .... up end of. 

 

 

There you go again....one sided! P.S. I,m not a Tory, but I do like a certain amount of evenhandedness....

13 hours ago, Gordon R said:

You overestimate yourself. Perhaps you need some professional help.

13 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

oh the irony

Be interesting to know what you do for a living..........

[Scully]

Just now, pinfireman said:

Labour brought in the 1968 Firearms Act, that was the first piece of  legislation of any size since 1922.  This was after the Harry Roberts murders. And Labour  finalised the 1997 Firearms act, after the out-going Tory government  proposed a pistol ban....Labour added to it.

It was a Liberal government which first brought in legislation regarding the public ownership of firearms. The Tories banned cf self loading rifles after Hungerford, and imposed the S1 legislation regarding shotguns at the same time, and while it was Blair’s government which finalised the handgun by including .22rf, the ban was instigated by the Tories. 

Public opinion will always play its part in any emotive legislation, regardless of which party is in power. 

[besty57]

So now it looks like the uk will not be leaving the eu.except in name only,

And seeing as so much has been blamed on brexit ,Honda leaving, Nissan not building a new model here, etc,etc,etc,.Will these decisions be reversed,???

 

[Retsdon]

https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fassets.publishing.service.gov.uk%2Fgovernment%2Fuploads%2Fsystem%2Fuploads%2Fattachment_data%2Ffile%2F781768%2FImplications_for_Business_and_Trade_of_a_No_Deal_Exit_on_29_March_2019.pdf%3AckilJubMSAyKB_6BxIaX93cEOuw&cuid=2840114

Above is a link to the government's assessment of the economic effects of a No Deal Brexit. On the face of it you'd be forgiven for thinking that it must be a summary of a larger, more detailed document - but no, this is apparently the whole thing.

When you consider that a typical undergraduate dissertation on some narrow esoteric subject or other runs between 30 to 50 pages (without footnotes), it's quite remarkable how the British government has managed to reduce the economic effects of Brexit on the UK economy down to a mere fifteen... 😂

 

 

[Rewulf]

The guardians take on yesterdays announcements, reacts with undemocratic glee at prospect of second ref. 'remain can win!' 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/26/referendum-labour-remain-vote-grassroots

The Mail and DD s view. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6749435/DAVID-DAVIS-says-utter-folly-defeatist-Mrs-taking-No-Deal-table.html

[mick miller]

11 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

I believe in democracy, it definitely exists

It does, just not here. 

[Raja Clavata]

30 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Above is a link to the government's assessment of the economic effects of a No Deal Brexit. On the face of it you'd be forgiven for thinking that it must be a summary of a larger, more detailed document - but no, this is apparently the whole thing.

When you consider that a typical undergraduate dissertation on some narrow esoteric subject or other runs between 30 to 50 pages (without footnotes), it's quite remarkable how the British government has managed to reduce the economic effects of Brexit on the UK economy down to a mere fifteen... 😂

 

Wholeheartedly agree, the paper concludes that the public and business are ill-prepared for a no deal Brexit and amply illustrates that so are the government. Leads me to wonder if no Deal was ever on the table, I suspect not. Goes back to the point I made earlier that to a greater or lesser extent we've all been played. 

Both political parties have been misleading as well as key individuals including the likes of Johnson and Farage. It's baffling why Farage stepped away immediately after the referendum result given everything he had said about not trusting the politicians nor the system. Increasingly looks like all he's really capable of is heckling and rhetoric.

[old man]

20 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I would think the EU would see that as a weakening of our position much like taking no deal out of the equation!

They will just take us for everything and give nothing!

 

PM TM due in Parliament to make an update. Let's hope she doesn't capitulate!

It seemingly has been thus for years, our politicos aiding and abetting our foes by using destruction from within, while of course continually filling their troughs with gravy?

I too, am certain we are not leaving and also assured our politicos will have left us worse off than before, disgraceful things that they have become..

[old man]

13 hours ago, oowee said:

Seems to me that despite all of the bluster on here blaming EU and Corbyn for all the ills of Brexit it's the Tories that are in power. The Tories that put the vote on the table. The Tories were presumably cognisant of the issues that would need to be resolved as part of the process. 

The people voted out and the Tories that have delivered a dogs dinner in return.

Or the Tories had no idea what they were doing and played fast and loose with the electorate. 

It's no wonder that people are so frustrated with the whole fiasco.

Refresh my memory, has it not always been the Torpies and Europe, Heath then Major binding us ever closer?

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

Both political parties have been misleading as well as key individuals including the likes of Johnson and Farage. It's baffling why Farage stepped away immediately after the referendum result given everything he had said about not trusting the politicians nor the system. Increasingly looks like all he's really capable of is heckling and rhetoric.

Why is it baffling ? The man needed a rest from it all.

To say that all hes capable of is heckling and rhetoric, shows that your judgement is severely impaired, and slewed towards a left wing , remain agenda.

[toxo]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

Wholeheartedly agree, the paper concludes that the public and business are ill-prepared for a no deal Brexit and amply illustrates that so are the government. Leads me to wonder if no Deal was ever on the table, I suspect not. Goes back to the point I made earlier that to a greater or lesser extent we've all been played. 

Both political parties have been misleading as well as key individuals including the likes of Johnson and Farage. It's baffling why Farage stepped away immediately after the referendum result given everything he had said about not trusting the politicians nor the system. Increasingly looks like all he's really capable of is heckling and rhetoric.

Farage stepped away because the job was done!

How could anyone foresee our own parliament having the audacity to put themselves above the will of the people they are supposed to represent!

[Raja Clavata]

Just now, Rewulf said:

Why is it baffling ? The man needed a rest from it all.

To say that all hes capable of is heckling and rhetoric, shows that your judgement is severely impaired, and slewed towards a left wing , remain agenda.

No, it shows that I have a different opinion on the man than you do. I would love to be proved wrong as we really do need someone to step up but I don't think Farage is the man.

Just now, toxo said:

Farage stepped away because the job was done!

How could anyone foresee our own parliament having the audacity to put themselves above the will of the people they are supposed to represent!

Clearly the job was NOT done, I will avoid passing judgement on anyone that believed that the mission was complete on 23rd June 2016.

What parliament have / are doing is one of the well documented shortcomings of a representative democracy. 

[toxo]

9 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

No, it shows that I have a different opinion on the man than you do. I would love to be proved wrong as we really do need someone to step up but I don't think Farage is the man.

Clearly the job was NOT done, I will avoid passing judgement on anyone that believed that the mission was complete on 23rd June 2016.

Of course you had an all seeing eye! 🙄

What parliament have / are doing is one of the well documented shortcomings of a representative democracy. 

***? How is spouting your own brand of philosophy going to help the situation? How many times do you people need to be told? Be constructive or don't post.

 

[JohnfromUK]

15 minutes ago, toxo said:

How could anyone foresee our own parliament having the audacity to put themselves above the will of the people they are supposed to represent!

Sadly - that bit was very foreseeable; Most politicians (all parties) once elected completely ignore any 'promises' made in the manifesto or when campaigning.  They are only really interested in what the public wants when they are looking for votes to secure their next 5 yearly 'free meals' ticket, expense account, salary well over double the national average and that lovely gold plated pension to come when they do leave/get tossed out.

[JohnfromUK]

1 hour ago, old man said:

Refresh my memory, has it not always been the Torpies and Europe, Heath then Major binding us ever closer?

Not always at all, Blair was hugely pro Europe, as was Brown and Harold Wilson held a referendum in 1975 and campaigned for remain as did most of his senior team including Denis Healey, Jim Callaghan and Roy Jenkins.  Kinnock was also very pro Europe as Labour (opposition) leader.

[Raja Clavata]

7 minutes ago, toxo said:

 

would you care to elaborate on what you mean by "you people"?

[toxo]

4 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

would you care to elaborate on what you mean by "you people"?

Anyone who doesn't aid the  cause in question. We get enough negativity from the other side. Individual philosophy isn't needed.

[Raja Clavata]

Just now, toxo said:

Anyone who doesn't aid the  cause in question. We get enough negativity from the other side. Individual philosophy isn't needed.

The cause being?

If you read back from yesterday I was asking how we start making progress on reconciliation of the people, in our democracy it is supposed to be the people that are sovereign. Nothing philosophical about that. I actually don't understand your point about philosophy. Surely this is more about ideology.

[Zapp]

There has been plenty of comment on this thread from leavers, a good deal of which has been pretty personal and hardly constructive.

Let people have their say please without telling them they shouldn't post if their view does not match your own.

[Rewulf]

[Newbie to this]

[pinfireman]

14 hours ago, Scully said:

It was a Liberal government which first brought in legislation regarding the public ownership of firearms. The Tories banned cf self loading rifles after Hungerford, and imposed the S1 legislation regarding shotguns at the same time, and while it was Blair’s government which finalised the handgun by including .22rf, the ban was instigated by the Tories. 

Public opinion will always play its part in any emotive legislation, regardless of which party is in power. 

True. However, public opinion can be swayed by false information....especially if the leader the voted for, feeds it to them!

5 hours ago, besty57 said:

So now it looks like the uk will not be leaving the eu.except in name only,

And seeing as so much has been blamed on brexit ,Honda leaving, Nissan not building a new model here, etc,etc,etc,.Will these decisions be reversed,???

 

No. Purely business decisions. How many car plants closed in this country during the 47 years of  the EU?

4 hours ago, Retsdon said:

https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fassets.publishing.service.gov.uk%2Fgovernment%2Fuploads%2Fsystem%2Fuploads%2Fattachment_data%2Ffile%2F781768%2FImplications_for_Business_and_Trade_of_a_No_Deal_Exit_on_29_March_2019.pdf%3AckilJubMSAyKB_6BxIaX93cEOuw&cuid=2840114

Above is a link to the government's assessment of the economic effects of a No Deal Brexit. On the face of it you'd be forgiven for thinking that it must be a summary of a larger, more detailed document - but no, this is apparently the whole thing.

When you consider that a typical undergraduate dissertation on some narrow esoteric subject or other runs between 30 to 50 pages (without footnotes), it's quite remarkable how the British government has managed to reduce the economic effects of Brexit on the UK economy down to a mere fifteen... 😂

 

 

That is so that the numpties on the  Labour, Green, SNP and Plaid Cwmri benches could understand them?

[pinfireman]

3 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

Wholeheartedly agree, the paper concludes that the public and business are ill-prepared for a no deal Brexit and amply illustrates that so are the government. Leads me to wonder if no Deal was ever on the table, I suspect not. Goes back to the point I made earlier that to a greater or lesser extent we've all been played. 

Both political parties have been misleading as well as key individuals including the likes of Johnson and Farage. It's baffling why Farage stepped away immediately after the referendum result given everything he had said about not trusting the politicians nor the system. Increasingly looks like all he's really capable of is heckling and rhetoric.

Please quote how Farage mislead us?  It seems as though you are trying to  besmirch any opposition that might spring up after the May sellout?

2 hours ago, old man said:

It seemingly has been thus for years, our politicos aiding and abetting our foes by using destruction from within, while of course continually filling their troughs with gravy?

I too, am certain we are not leaving and also assured our politicos will have left us worse off than before, disgraceful things that they have become..

Then punish them! It can be done!

2 hours ago, old man said:

Refresh my memory, has it not always been the Torpies and Europe, Heath then Major binding us ever closer?

and Kinnock, wholeheartedly opposed the EU (until he got his snout in the EU trough) and Corbyn, 40 years totally opposed to the EU in any form, now he wants to cosy up to them!  I wont even mention the Limp / Dumbs, SNP and Plaid Cwmri....The fact is, it,s been a betrayal by all but a handful, of MPs.