BREXIT

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said:

Do you consider Cameron to be a man of integrity and honesty?

Has he been proved otherwise ?

[Gordon R]

Quote

We supposedly elect MPs because they generally know better than us, that seems to have been forgotten in some quarters amidst the cries of traitors and whatever else...

Perhaps I could cite Diane Abbott, Corbyn, McDonnell, Soubry and Onasanya as examples that you regard so highly. 

Quote

Do you consider Cameron to be a man of integrity and honesty?

Compared to Corbyn, Blair or who?

[JohnfromUK]

10 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Do you consider Cameron to be a man of integrity and honesty?

He is (was) an M.P.  Such quality would be unknown to him, but I try to take people at their word.  To be fair, he did resign when he was defeated saying as a remainer he would be the wrong person to carry out a 'leave'.  That shows integrity in defeat!  The fact that it has resulted in many of the mistakes I have made in life perhaps should teach me a lesson, but then - old dog, new trick?

 

11 minutes ago, KB1 said:

Regardless of which side of the fence you sit, It's hard to honestly dispute the above comments…….

Thank you - I have tried to state facts not opinions

Edited August 29, 2019 by JohnfromUK

[Raja Clavata]

4 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Has he been proved otherwise ?

Only required a simple yes or no answer - you know it's bad form to answer a question with a question 😛 Perhaps it's best if the person the question was posed to is allowed to answer...

[Capt Christopher Jones]

6 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Do you consider Cameron to be a man of integrity and honesty?

No just like Bozo.

Camooron thought it would be easy & quell the tory boyz  once & for all time. He misjudged it badly & the tory boyz are in the driving seat of an E type when they are only qualified to drive a split screen morris minor 

[Vince Green]

12 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Do you consider Cameron to be a man of integrity and honesty?

That question is what they call a snowball, it has no relevance to the discussion.

[ShootingEgg]

29 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I would suggest no deal should never have been or still remain an option due to the potential impact it could have on our economy - nobody knows.

So you would go into a negotiation with the mind you would never walk away if the deal did not suit you? No one in their right mind goes into a negotiation without the option of walking away in their head... 

[Walker570]

On 28/08/2019 at 13:49, Zapp said:

As Teal has already stated, jndividuals will be held to account from this point forward.  We tried very hard to get posters to interact  respectfully but the antics on the closed thread drove away all but a handful of commenters.

That thread is now closed to draw a line under it and to once again emphasise that insulting other members will not be tolerated, and that from here on this will mean direct sanction.  We have done this in the hope that others who may have been put off joining the debate will now be more inclined to do so on this important matter.

100% AGREE !   As mentioned by Nigel Farage re a comment made by an old Lancaster bomber bomb aimer. " When the flak starts coming up you know your closing on the target"

Insults mean you have lost the argument. 

[Raja Clavata]

2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

He is (was) an M.P.  Such quality would be unknown to him, but I try to take people at their word.  The fact that it has resulted in many of the mistakes I have made in life perhaps should teach me a lesson, but then - old dog, new trick?

Fair play. The point I'd like to make then is it seems a bit flawed to quote someone whom we don't trust simply because they are saying something aligned with our agenda?

Thank you - I have tried to state facts not opinions

I'd go along with that, they are facts.

 

2 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

That question is what they call a snowball, it has no relevance to the discussion.

I'd suggest it is wholly relevant if you are citing a comment made by someone whom you do not trust. It's selective argument / reasoning which I would expect the OP to acknowledge. And I would add something we are probably all guilty of from time to time.

[Dave-G]

I think its chuffing hilarious Corbyn trying to correct Her Royal Highness about when she makes her overdue speech after he publicly refused to sing or even pretend to sing the national anthem. 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Dave-G

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said:

The point I'd like to make then is it seems a bit flawed to quote someone whom we don't trust simply because they are saying something aligned with our agenda?

In truth, I don't really trust any politician, though a few have shown integrity, notably people like (the late) Peter Carrington - who also resigned when 'caught out' by events not of his making.

I think Cameron was right to resign, he could not credibly have led a government planning to leave when he had led one committed to remain and been at the front of the remain campaign.

[Raja Clavata]

5 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

So you would go into a negotiation with the mind you would never walk away if the deal did not suit you? No one in their right mind goes into a negotiation without the option of walking away in their head... 

No of course not, it should be a negotiating tactic, and you should be prepared to see it through if need be or concede it was only ever a negotiating position.

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

I think its chuffing hilarious Corbyn trying to correct Her Royal Highness about when she makes her overdue speech after he publicly refused to sing or even pretend to sing the national anthem. 

If I stated on this thread what I thought about Corbyn's honesty and integrity, I'd be on an immediate ban ........

[Raja Clavata]

5 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

In truth, I don't really trust any politician, though a few have shown integrity, notably people like (the late) Peter Carrington - who also resigned when 'caught out' by events not of his making.

I think Cameron was right to resign, he could not credibly have led a government planning to leave when he had led one committed to remain and been at the front of the remain campaign.

Fair play. I agree on Cameron and that MPs showing true integrity are normally in the minority.

Oh, and the point about Corbyn too.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Raja Clavata
added Corbyn point

[Gordon R]

Of the current bunch, I trust Frank Field.

 

[Smokersmith]

40 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Has it occurred to you that some of the parliamentary resistance may have been an attempt to avoid us moving backwards? We supposedly elect MPs because they generally know better than us, that seems to have been forgotten in some quarters amidst the cries of traitors and whatever else...

Hell yes ... I’m convinced that many of them have genuine fears. I voted to remain.

However ... the vote was the vote, so we should crack on and get it done.

[KB1]

It’s a shame that the country’s (Not just PW) is so divided on this issue now.  Regarding the integrity of our politicians, I believe that to equal little or none with most of them…… BUT, when faced with MSM eager to get that self-tying noose nugget on a consistent basis, then telling the whole truth is a career ending move anyway, so we’re all to blame in a round about way😬

I didn’t vote Brexit or Remain because my wallet is happier with the status quo, and my heart and head with Brexit - Add to that the fact that I never thought Brexit had a chance.

For me personally, the reason I would prefer Brexit to go ahead is that I’ve seen hundreds, if not thousands of EU directives introduced into the construction industry that have in the main hindered progress rather than bolster it.  On top of that, the UK follows these laws to the nth degree, and is severely punished when deviated from, whilst the rest of Europe puts a middle finger up to them and carry on regardless!!!

Many politicians are on a similar gravy train with the EU as I am….. the difference being; they can’t openly say so🥴

Never the less, the electorate were given a democratic ‘CHOICE’, and they CHOSE🧐

 

Who the **** on here, in parliament or in the UK has the right to reverse a democratic vote result????????

 

Whatever goods we sell now, people will still want to buy…….

 

Whatever goods we buy now, people will still want to buy……

 

Whatever expertise we have, people will still need it……..

 

Etc, etc, etc, etc,

 

THIS IS WHAT THE EU IS AFRAID OF!!!!  We should capitalise on that, and stop being afraid of running the shop ourselves🤪

 

[oowee]

11 minutes ago, KB1 said:

🥴

Never the less, the electorate were given a democratic ‘CHOICE’, and they CHOSE🧐

Who the **** on here, in parliament or in the UK has the right to reverse a democratic vote result????????

Whatever goods we sell now, people will still want to buy…….

Whatever goods we buy now, people will still want to buy……

Whatever expertise we have, people will still need it……..

Etc, etc, etc, etc,

THIS IS WHAT THE EU IS AFRAID OF!!!!  We should capitalise on that, and stop being afraid of running the shop ourselves🤪

 

Our goods may still be in demand but we will have to sell them for 10%-20% less than they cost now. The same for product we buy. Just have to buy more stuff from the UK 🙂 

At least we wont have to pay vat on fuel or tampons anymore

 

Edited August 29, 2019 by oowee

[Capt Christopher Jones]

20 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Of the current bunch, I trust Frank Field.

 

agreed

[Yellow Bear]

13 minutes ago, KB1 said:

the reason I would prefer Brexit to go ahead is that I’ve seen hundreds, if not thousands of EU directives introduced into the construction industry that have in the main hindered progress rather than bolster it.  On top of that, the UK follows these laws to the nth degree, and is severely punished when deviated from, whilst the rest of Europe puts a middle finger up to them and carry on regardless!!!

Plus 10 to this

[Capt Christopher Jones]

12 minutes ago, KB1 said:

It’s a shame that the country’s (Not just PW) is so divided on this issue now.  Regarding the integrity of our politicians, I believe that to equal little or none with most of them…… BUT, when faced with MSM eager to get that self-tying noose nugget on a consistent basis, then telling the whole truth is a career ending move anyway, so we’re all to blame in a round about way😬

I didn’t vote Brexit or Remain because my wallet is happier with the status quo, and my heart and head with Brexit - Add to that the fact that I never thought Brexit had a chance.

For me personally, the reason I would prefer Brexit to go ahead is that I’ve seen hundreds, if not thousands of EU directives introduced into the construction industry that have in the main hindered progress rather than bolster it.  On top of that, the UK follows these laws to the nth degree, and is severely punished when deviated from, whilst the rest of Europe puts a middle finger up to them and carry on regardless!!!

Many politicians are on a similar gravy train with the EU as I am….. the difference being; they can’t openly say so🥴

Never the less, the electorate were given a democratic ‘CHOICE’, and they CHOSE🧐

 

Who the **** on here, in parliament or in the UK has the right to reverse a democratic vote result????????

 

Whatever goods we sell now, people will still want to buy…….

 

Whatever goods we buy now, people will still want to buy……

 

Whatever expertise we have, people will still need it……..

 

Etc, etc, etc, etc,

 

THIS IS WHAT THE EU IS AFRAID OF!!!!  We should capitalise on that, and stop being afraid of running the shop ourselves🤪

Blame HMG for that situation NOT Europe, the French ,Belgian & Spanish seem to manage under the same directives

 

[Retsdon]

52 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

So you would go into a negotiation with the mind you would never walk away if the deal did not suit you?

We've been through this before. "Walking away' from a deal means returning to the status quo ante. In other words, everyone goes back to where they started. Nothing changes. 

It does not mean jumping off a cliff on a point of principle.

[ShootingEgg]

9 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

We've been through this before. "Walking away' from a deal means returning to the status quo ante. In other words, everyone goes back to where they started. Nothing changes. 

It does not mean jumping off a cliff on a point of principle.

I give up, we don't have to 'do a deal' until after we walk anyway. Going in saying please can we have one plays into their hands, going in with a weak starting point. I'd never go into any kind of negotiations without knowing I'd happily walk away or say no to what is on the table. A bit like parliament have done THREE times 

Edited August 29, 2019 by ShootingEgg

[JohnfromUK]

The Momentum left which leads Labour have been 'outraged' at Johnsons 'betrayal of democracy.

As a thoroughly democratic group themselves they plan to shut down the streets and bridges so that they can enforce their way https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7407535/Jeremy-Corbyn-vows-stop-Boris-Johnson-suspending-Parliament-TUESDAY.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7407613/Hard-Left-Momentum-activists-vow-shut-streets-protest-against-Parliament-suspension.html

How we all love a bit of democracy!

Edited August 29, 2019 by JohnfromUK

[KB1]

1 hour ago, Capt Christopher Jones said:

Blame HMG for that situation NOT Europe, the French ,Belgian & Spanish seem to manage under the same directives

They don't adhere to them🥺, and I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say we should blame HMG for EU directives😳

Edited August 29, 2019 by KB1