JohnfromUK Posted August 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Retsdon said: Something needs to be done. Something is being done; Negotiations seem to be 'back on' and they have to reach an acceptable (to BOTH sides) conclusion - by a date sometime in late October - or we will leave with 'no deal'. I hope the negotiations have a good outcome. It is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL that this 'no deal' fallback position is both kept and WILL HAPPEN - because the idea that if there is 'no agreement' we will just give in ......... is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE. The electorate anyway will not give in and go away (and I was a remain voter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Christopher Jones Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 54 minutes ago, Scully said: So that is what you’re suggesting; ignore the result of the biggest democratic vote in our lifetime? Again, I ask, why? The whole country was lied to, by all sides, thats why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 29 minutes ago, Scully said: Yes, it is a good article, but much of it is based on the assumption the EU hierarchy would play along. They showed Cameron what they thought of that, and every proposal since. Hopefully we’re about to find out. Strap yourself in, it might be a bumpy ride.🙂 Then again........? No doubt it will be bumpy, I think the key question is just how long the turbulence will last. And if we "just leave without a deal" and things do get really bad then the EU will have us over a barrel, particularly if we decide we should re-join. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 Just now, Raja Clavata said: particularly if we decide we should re-join. Heaven forbid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Capt Christopher Jones said: The whole country was lied to, by all sides, thats why Really? They’re politicians, were you expecting honesty? 2 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: .......particularly if we decide we should re-join. Following yet another referendum? What if we voted to stay out? 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Scully said: Really? They’re politicians, were you expecting honesty? This is actually quite a key point and a significant aspect of grievance for some of us - it was the lies and false promises that prevented some of us from biting the bullet and voting to leave in the first place. Our cynicism does appear to have been justified, at least thus far. Following yet another referendum? What if we voted to stay out? 😉 Then we'd obviously stay out, just like if we held another referendum now and the result was out then the whole remain argument would be slaughtered. In hindsight I should not have brought it up, things are complicated enough as they are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 1 minute ago, JohnfromUK said: Heaven forbid! My prediction is that the UK is either back in the EU, or actually more probably in the EEU, within a decade. In today's interconnected world it's laughable to imagine that a country can prosper without a close and complex set of agreements with any of its 27 nearest neighbours. And as the EU is basically the umbrella organization that represents all 27, then the UK will either have to be in never ending step by step negotiations on every single topic, or else adopt an off the shelf one-off agreement. And the logical one, given the country's geographic position on the globe is membership of one of the European clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, Retsdon said: My prediction is that the UK is either back in the EU, or actually more probably in the EEU, within a decade. In today's interconnected world it's laughable to imagine that a country can prosper without a close and complex set of agreements with any of its 27 nearest neighbours. And as the EU is basically the umbrella organization that represents all 27, then the UK will either have to be in never ending step by step negotiations on every single topic, or else adopt an off the shelf one-off agreement. And the logical one, given the country's geographic position on the globe is membership of one of the European clubs. And imagine the damage that we will have served upon ourselves in the process and our standing in the international community. I'm still not convinced we will actually leave and I don't believe Boris will allow us to do so on 31/10 without a deal. I wonder how the Brexiteers would take him telling the nation at the end of October that he tried his best but the whole process is just too complicated and needs to be completely re-thought out. It's possibly only inconceivable to those who can't bear the thought of it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) On 28/08/2019 at 17:28, JohnfromUK said: Whilst I agree, I'm not sure that the 'general public' do. The first poll result I have seen suggests not. Still ploughing through here but what has Borris got to loose? Nothing? He is doing what he said he would, abiding by the peoples' democratic decision to leave? If he is outed he still has the moral high ground, doing what elected to do and a PM's salary and perks for life? He would possibly be marked by history as the only British Politician to have told the truth and been willing to stake his career on it to the end iover such a fundamental issue? The EU won't give any concessions as there is too much to loose, politically, financially and know the writing is on the wall? IMO, the politicos now back stabbing him have reduced the honour and credibility of our politics even further, we voted to leave? Edited August 30, 2019 by old man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Retsdon said: My prediction is that the UK is either back in the EU, or actually more probably in the EEU, within a decade. In today's interconnected world it's laughable to imagine that a country can prosper without a close and complex set of agreements with any of its 27 nearest neighbours. And as the EU is basically the umbrella organization that represents all 27, then the UK will either have to be in never ending step by step negotiations on every single topic, or else adopt an off the shelf one-off agreement. And the logical one, given the country's geographic position on the globe is membership of one of the European clubs. It is old history now, but I voted to join "The Common Market". - That progressed gradually to become the European Economic Community" (EEC). - That in turn became the European Union (EU). They are intending "Ever Closer Union" - which takes the integration still further. I have no problem with the idea of a 'common market' or indeed an EEC, but political union, common foreign policy, 'ever closer union' are steps too far. Personally, I have sympathies with the idea that 'small is beautiful', individualism is important, local conditions and feelings are never to be ignored ........ and (to coin a phrase) for that reason I am out. I began my career in business aged 17 working in a small company, as part of a large group. It managed (on the whole anyway) to combine the flexibility, friendly atmosphere, dynamism and enterprise of a small company, whilst enjoying the financial support and security and 'buying power' of a large company. The company was for many years hugely successful and many former employees have fond memories of those years. Ever since then I have valued small groupings within a larger umbrella - but the balance is hard to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 29 minutes ago, Capt Christopher Jones said: The whole country was lied to, by all sides, thats why What like in every election by every political party you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedge Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 45 minutes ago, Capt Christopher Jones said: The whole country was lied to, by all sides, thats why Doesn't this happen at every election? Does that mean that after every election, let's say 2 years, we can ask for another electoin because said party is not doing what they said they would or we've changed our minds? We are entering the realms of allowing people to ask for another vote on the basis that they don't like the outcome or they've changed their minds. Democracy is one thing but we also need to take responsibility for what we are voting for as an electorate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 1 hour ago, ShootingEgg said: So the EU are now back to the table, one thing TM could not get them to do, it was a take it or leave it.. So maybe Boris is actually getting results with the way he is working. Not that the outraged remain group will see it exactly, how could TM expect to be taken seriously threatening no deal when parliament was constantly blocking her? I'm not saying her deal was any good but how can you negotiate when the other side knows your bluffing? At least the EU are listening now. Get us out Boris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, hedge said: Doesn't this happen at every election? Does that mean that after every election, let's say 2 years, we can ask for another electoin because said party is not doing what they said they would or we've changed our minds? We are entering the realms of allowing people to ask for another vote on the basis that they don't like the outcome or they've changed their minds. Democracy is one thing but we also need to take responsibility for what we are voting for as an electorate. +1 /\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Retsdon said: If only it were so simple! The problem is that the sound bite merchants and sloganeers debased the issue of Brexit to the point of absurdity, and now there's very little sense to be had at all from either side of the fence. I highly recommend this article, written today by someone who knows what they're talking about, who has been actively campaigning to leave the EU since the 1990s. It was never, ever going to be an easy or straightforward process to undertake. Idealogical fantasy .To stay with the EU for another 10-20 years, I don't think so. Edited August 30, 2019 by das Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 1 hour ago, henry d said: One brexit debate gets pulled for name calling and getting personal with insults; what don`t you understand about that? Be disturbed... The original thread used words like 'remoaner' and 'gammon' from the outset, you yourself often used 'offensive' terms toward others. It's when personal insults begin to escalate, often with a clear intent to get the thread shut down, that action needs to be taken. It's a public forum, and the last thing we need to project, is that we are a rude and offensive, bickering rabble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/08/29/why-the-capitalist-class-is-warming-to-jeremy-corbyn/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) Ex PM John Major joins Gina Miller! https://www.ft.com/content/c9c3e030-42f5-325a-8990-742d5399f40d Edited August 30, 2019 by TIGHTCHOKE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Ex PM John Major joins Gina Miller! https://www.ft.com/content/c9c3e030-42f5-325a-8990-742d5399f40d Oh dear how hypocritical when he prorouged Parliment to supress a cash for questions scandel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 An HONOURABLE Man.................NOT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 How ever short the rough ride will be we are still trading several percentage points below where we could have been and we have not left yet. I doubt that ground can ever be made back and I would like to see a forecast of the lost tax revenues. How many firms do you know sitting on a pile of 'just in case cash' that would otherwise have been invested. Add three years of non government and the cost is already out of proportion to any perceived and imaginary benefit of self rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, oowee said: How ever short the rough ride will be we are still trading several percentage points below where we could have been and we have not left yet. I doubt that ground can ever be made back and I would like to see a forecast of the lost tax revenues. How many firms do you know sitting on a pile of 'just in case cash' that would otherwise have been invested. Add three years of non government and the cost is already out of proportion to any perceived and imaginary benefit of self rule. To the first part, were still doing better than France and Germany and Holland aren't we? Not sure the rest really count? Firms might be sitting on money who knows, that's there choice. It was a choice given to the people not industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B725 Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 Can any of the remainers please tell us what the euro lottery winning number's for the next moth are. No! Just as you don't know what's going to happen when we leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB1 Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 4 hours ago, Nuke said: This is not correct, just wishful thinking, UK companies are no better in that regard than companies from other countries. In my experience (from standards/companies from/in UK, Sweden, Germany, US, South Afrika) this is usually an issue if you don't bother to try and understand the regulations and only wish to fullfill the absolute minimum requirement to minimize cost. /M With respect, that sounds like verbal loose bowels🤮 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead eye alan Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 3 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: particularly if we decide we should re-join You must be joking, well it makes me lough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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