BREXIT

[old'un]

European Parliament has warned it will veto the Brexit deal unless it gets assurances that EU citizens will not face deportation from Britain.

I think Boris as already said they safe and if they start playing games with Boris he always has the no deal option.

[ditchman]

now boris has the majority Verhof watsit..............is a side show ....a has been....an ex....and as a result the more he comes out with the more harm he will do to the EU not us ...

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Sorry love, you're a bit late!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-50836365/brexit-will-harm-uk-more-than-eu-warns-ursula-von-der-leyen

[ditchman]

Tosh...........the other way round....................she is a bitter arrogant cow...the fact is they are all jealous of the UK even more so they cant suck at the british teat no more............damn jonny foreighner..............

Edited December 18, 2019 by ditchman

[hawkeye]

as above

 

[wishy735]

£3 join the labour party. I did 2 days ago. Happy days😉 . Corby cronies will get my vote .

[muncher]

18 hours ago, oowee said:

The EU has voted to ban single use plastics by 2021. Will we be left behind or follow suit? 

Will this include cartridges?

 

[oowee]

3 minutes ago, muncher said:

 

Thats why I posted it. I am all for getting rid of the stuff and nothing worse than tipping bagful after bagful of plastic carts in the bin. The sooner we move to paper the better. 

[muncher]

Just now, oowee said:

Thats why I posted it. I am all for getting rid of the stuff and nothing worse than tipping bagful after bagful of plastic carts in the bin. The sooner we move to paper the better. I agree,but paper cartridges were a pain there must be a better material that can be used .

 

[JohnfromUK]

35 minutes ago, muncher said:

but paper cartridges were a pain there must be a better material that can be used .

The only problem I ever had with paper cartridges was the price.  I never had any swell because I took care to keep them dry.

 

 

[Rewulf]

35 minutes ago, oowee said:

Thats why I posted it. I am all for getting rid of the stuff and nothing worse than tipping bagful after bagful of plastic carts in the bin. The sooner we move to paper the better. 

Define 'single use' ?

My definition is plastic that cannot be recycled, we pay for our plastic carts to be recycled, so carts , like many other plastics , will not apply to this bonkers EU rule.
Besides the fact that shortly , EU law will not apply to us anyway.

2 hours ago, old'un said:

European Parliament has warned it will veto the Brexit deal unless it gets assurances that EU citizens will not face deportation from Britain.

I think Boris as already said they safe and if they start playing games with Boris he always has the no deal option.

Correct , the EU has already had such assurances, and they are quite probably within the framework of the WA ,  verhofstadt is doing his usual , venting effluent.

[KB1]

So, so funny watching this after the Election😁

 

 

[Rewulf]

Ive just heard some 'sad' news ...

https://voteforchange.uk/letter-to-members-from-anna-soubry-following-our-management-council-meeting/

😄

[JohnfromUK]

8 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Ive just heard some 'sad' news ...

https://voteforchange.uk/letter-to-members-from-anna-soubry-following-our-management-council-meeting/

😄

Oh dear, what a pity, never mind.

[Retsdon]

" Cummings thinks rules are there to be broken. It is one of the six pieces of advice he gives to followers. He also thinks those in Westminster lack imagination. “They can’t imagine something like Stalin… deliberately murdering millions,” he writes, just as they could not imagine Donald Trump as president or Brexit. They do not, he thinks, realise that they are viewing the world through their own very particular perspective. The challenge is to escape the tiny leaf on which they all stand, and see the forest that surrounds them.

That, thinks Cummings, is what scientific geniuses do. “Newton looked up from his leaf, looked far away from today, and created a new perspective – a new model of reality,” he writes. Once discovered, that model, calculus, allowed, “billions of people who are far from being geniuses [to] use this new perspective”.

This is what Cummings hopes to do for politics. He wishes to discover an equivalent to calculus, to “create something new that could scale very fast”. He wants to build an operating system for government: to be a Steve Jobs for politics, delivering “huge long-term value for humanity”.

Through his system, as yet unexplained – “I will go into what I think this vision could be and how to do it another day” – he will turn a nation of average people into one of the most successful countries in the world. He will sweep away the suffocating postwar mainframes of politics, and build something capable of withstanding the unknown crises ahead. Or so he would wish. In truth, he may be little more than a survivalist in the woods, soldering wires together in the belief he is saving us all.

Is Dominic Cummings a visionary or a fool? The remarkable fact is that the Conservative Party has risked its future, and the country’s, on which one Cummings turns out to be."

Although the article linked to below is pretty lengthy and in depth (the quote above being just the closing comment), I thought that some folk might want to read up a bit on the new boss. Then when events start to take strange turns you might have some idea of why, and what direction they might take. Interesting times ahead.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/09/dominic-cummings-machiavel-downing-street

[martyn2233]

5 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

" Cummings thinks rules are there to be broken. It is one of the six pieces of advice he gives to followers. He also thinks those in Westminster lack imagination. “They can’t imagine something like Stalin… deliberately murdering millions,” he writes, just as they could not imagine Donald Trump as president or Brexit. They do not, he thinks, realise that they are viewing the world through their own very particular perspective. The challenge is to escape the tiny leaf on which they all stand, and see the forest that surrounds them.

That, thinks Cummings, is what scientific geniuses do. “Newton looked up from his leaf, looked far away from today, and created a new perspective – a new model of reality,” he writes. Once discovered, that model, calculus, allowed, “billions of people who are far from being geniuses [to] use this new perspective”.

This is what Cummings hopes to do for politics. He wishes to discover an equivalent to calculus, to “create something new that could scale very fast”. He wants to build an operating system for government: to be a Steve Jobs for politics, delivering “huge long-term value for humanity”.

Through his system, as yet unexplained – “I will go into what I think this vision could be and how to do it another day” – he will turn a nation of average people into one of the most successful countries in the world. He will sweep away the suffocating postwar mainframes of politics, and build something capable of withstanding the unknown crises ahead. Or so he would wish. In truth, he may be little more than a survivalist in the woods, soldering wires together in the belief he is saving us all.

Is Dominic Cummings a visionary or a fool? The remarkable fact is that the Conservative Party has risked its future, and the country’s, on which one Cummings turns out to be."

Although the article linked to below is pretty lengthy and in depth (the quote above being just the closing comment), I thought that some folk might want to read up a bit on the new boss. Then when events start to take strange turns you might have some idea of why, and what direction they might take. Interesting times ahead.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/09/dominic-cummings-machiavel-downing-street

And when all goes well we can thank him works both ways

[Retsdon]

Just now, martyn2233 said:

And when all goes well we can thank him works both ways

Quite. But, regardless of the outcome, living through political revolutions has almost never been a benign experience for the average person. If history tells us anything it's that we should be very wary of messianic visionaries who want to tear down the pillars of society and rebuild from scratch. And that's why I'm a small c conservative. I look at the odds on these kind of people succeeding and I don't like what I see. It almost invariably ends in tears.

[Rewulf]

58 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Quite. But, regardless of the outcome, living through political revolutions has almost never been a benign experience for the average person. If history tells us anything it's that we should be very wary of messianic visionaries who want to tear down the pillars of society and rebuild from scratch. And that's why I'm a small c conservative. I look at the odds on these kind of people succeeding and I don't like what I see. It almost invariably ends in tears.

Or we could stay with early 20 th century style politics, and stagnate.

Having a vision, and moving forward trying to better oneself and country is a worthy cause, staying in your familiar rut might be safe and comfortable , for now, but change is definitely needed in this fast changing world, or that rut will become fatally permanent .

Cummings wins stuff, against the odds, his strategy won Brexit, I believe his election strategy (whatever that input was) helped the tories win.
The opposition are destroyed or in disarray .

Thats got to be worth some kudos ?

[Danger-Mouse]

1 hour ago, Retsdon said:

" Cummings thinks rules are there to be broken. It is one of the six pieces of advice he gives to followers. He also thinks those in Westminster lack imagination. “They can’t imagine something like Stalin… deliberately murdering millions,” he writes, just as they could not imagine Donald Trump as president or Brexit. They do not, he thinks, realise that they are viewing the world through their own very particular perspective. The challenge is to escape the tiny leaf on which they all stand, and see the forest that surrounds them.

That, thinks Cummings, is what scientific geniuses do. “Newton looked up from his leaf, looked far away from today, and created a new perspective – a new model of reality,” he writes. Once discovered, that model, calculus, allowed, “billions of people who are far from being geniuses [to] use this new perspective”.

This is what Cummings hopes to do for politics. He wishes to discover an equivalent to calculus, to “create something new that could scale very fast”. He wants to build an operating system for government: to be a Steve Jobs for politics, delivering “huge long-term value for humanity”.

Through his system, as yet unexplained – “I will go into what I think this vision could be and how to do it another day” – he will turn a nation of average people into one of the most successful countries in the world. He will sweep away the suffocating postwar mainframes of politics, and build something capable of withstanding the unknown crises ahead. Or so he would wish. In truth, he may be little more than a survivalist in the woods, soldering wires together in the belief he is saving us all.

Is Dominic Cummings a visionary or a fool? The remarkable fact is that the Conservative Party has risked its future, and the country’s, on which one Cummings turns out to be."

Although the article linked to below is pretty lengthy and in depth (the quote above being just the closing comment), I thought that some folk might want to read up a bit on the new boss. Then when events start to take strange turns you might have some idea of why, and what direction they might take. Interesting times ahead.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/09/dominic-cummings-machiavel-downing-street

Interesting read, thanks for posting. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

So with a Majority of 80 Boris wins this vote by 124, some sense has returned to the House of Commons!

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50870939

 

Now we just have to hope the Upper House don't start their delaying tactics.

[Retsdon]

25 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Cummings wins stuff, against the odds, his strategy won Brexit, I believe his election strategy (whatever that input was) helped the tories win.
The opposition are destroyed or in disarray .

Agreed, Cummings is very good at winning political battles. But like in everything, it's far easier to destroy than it is to build. And that's what makes me suspicious of Cummings. I think he's just a destroyer. Here's another quotation from the linked piece.

...One of his former professors warmly remembers their long tutorial discussions...” He was “something like a Robespierre – someone determined to bring down things that don’t work”. A confidant of Cummings today puts it differently: “He just wants to sweep rotten stuff away.”

Another way of saying that might be that he's another Bolshie revolutionary! And you're correct in what you say above. So far, he's been pretty successful. He's successfully destroyed the 40 year old partnership that we've enjoyed with out nearest neighbours. He's successfully destroyed the Conservative party as a broad church and, as you say, he's destroyed the political opposition (although a lot of that was self-inflicted). It seems now that his next target is going to be the Civil Service. It's all very well, but the problem is - how is all this destruction going to be rebuilt? And here we come to the nub of the issue. People like Cummings thrive on conflict and battle. But once the battle has been won and the opposition 'destroyed or in disarray' - then what? My guess is that after vanquishing the foe he will get bored of the tiresome detail that creating something new will inevitably involve, and walks away leaving someone else to try and sort out the mess.

The worry then is that Humpty Dumpty might not be so easy to put back together again!

 

[Gordon R]

I assume some would prefer Seumus Milne. First it was the vision of a Brexit hell - now replaced by Dominic Cummings. Remainers never quit.

Quote

it's far easier to destroy than it is to build

Could have been written for Corbyn - for nothing - against everything.

It's about time people put the moans behind us and worked to get a better country.

 

[old'un]

4 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

I assume some would prefer Seumus Milne. First it was the vision of a Brexit hell - now replaced by Dominic Cummings. Remainers never quit.

Could have been written for Corbyn - for nothing - against everything.

It's about time people put the moans behind us and worked to get a better country.

 

 

Brexit, the new dawn begins, Johnson called this a "new dawn" for Britain

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Retsdon said:

Another way of saying that might be that he's another Bolshie revolutionary! And you're correct in what you say above. So far, he's been pretty successful. He's successfully destroyed the 40 year old partnership that we've enjoyed with out nearest neighbours. He's successfully destroyed the Conservative party as a broad church and, as you say, he's destroyed the political opposition (although a lot of that was self-inflicted). It seems now that his next target is going to be the Civil Service. It's all very well, but the problem is - how is all this destruction going to be rebuilt?

"

" His criticisms are searing. Disasters in government, he says, happen routinely, and no one is held accountable. Anyone familiar with the workings of Westminster will find this resonant. Cummings calls the negotiation of government contracts “appalling” and says that Whitehall works on “dodgy accountancy”. Project management is abysmal. As he puts it, “for people like Cameron and Blair the announcement IS the only reality and ‘management’ is a dirty word for junior people.” Failure, he writes, is considered “absolutely normal, it’s not something to be avoided”.

Cummings finds this enraging. “There’s a lot of anger in him about how the country is run,” says an insider who has known him for years. “He’s angry so much of the time, particularly at establishment powers. It boils over.” Paul Marshall, who worked with Cummings at the DfE, thinks that his anger is justified. “It’s normal to get very angry when you see incompetence,” he says. “There is such a thing as righteous anger"

Sounds to me like we need more people like him, not less. 

He's a fixer, a strategist, uncorrupted, quite possibly a perfectionist in his work. 

Yet no aspirations for money, power or limelight... A rare creature, and an asset to this country. 

[Retsdon]

9 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

As he puts it, “for people like Cameron and Blair the announcement IS the only reality and ‘management’ is a dirty word for junior people.”

That's a bit rich coming from Boris Johnson's chief strategist. Anyway, we'll see. You belief he's an asset to the country. I'm reserving judgement but my instinct is that he's a dangerous zealot. And while pure, angry, driven perfectionists who want to change the world might be alright in science, in politics they are usually massively disruptive with not a lot of upside at the end of the day. 

25 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

He's a fixer, a strategist, uncorrupted, quite possibly a perfectionist in his work. 

Yet no aspirations for money, power or limelight...

A pure revolutionary?

26 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

A rare creature

Indeed, a rare creature on the right of the political spectrum. Usually Cumming's sort are to be found out on edge of the left wing. But whether on the left or right, these kinds of people are all cut from the same cloth. They have an idealistic and singular vision of how society should work and they believe unswervingly  that the end justifies whatever means it takes to get there. And as crisis gives birth to opportunity, they're quite happy to preside over, or even manufacture, whatever crises are needed to jolly things along. It's true that we haven't really seen people like this on the right since the 1930s, but of course in the decades of the 50s, 60s, and early 70s they were popping up all over the place on the left. And an awful lot of trouble and misery they caused too, for the most part.

 Cummings though isn't quite in the same class as Mao Tse Tung and the rest of them, and so with luck this particular movie is going to end in farce rather than tragedy. I'll be interested to watch it play out though.