NatureBoy Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 WJ's legal lot have set a letter today to DEFRA say they will be challenging the reissue of the current GL and reminding them the review and consultation period is up! They saying the current GL is still unlawful? Reads like they pushing for individual licenses and want more birds taken off the list! Hope DEFRA sort it out properly this time and don't let us down again! Not like they didn't know it was coming! They know how we feel and what we do and need now! We have now given them a load of information! WJ have offered to continue to be involved in any consultation process! Why are they still speaking to these activists!!???? NB 😡 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 batten down the hatches, Let's hope it all gets done PROPERLY this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 Not a chance, it will be a repeat of last years carve up. 36 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: batten down the hatches, Let's hope it all gets done PROPERLY this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 Amazing, anybody following mark Avery blog would have seen this coming, you have to hand it to them via the WJ website and blog and the blog of mark they keep their supports engaged, interact with them and transparently publish what they are doing, like today with the GLs, lead ammunition in deer twisted to include game, and raptor persecution. All this ensures their supports keep giving them money. By contrast we operate in the shadows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 22 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said: Amazing, anybody following mark Avery blog would have seen this coming, you have to hand it to them via the WJ website and blog and the blog of mark they keep their supports engaged, interact with them and transparently publish what they are doing, like today with the GLs, lead ammunition in deer twisted to include game, and raptor persecution. All this ensures their supports keep giving them money. By contrast we operate in the shadows. Come on! Instead of being negative! Tell us how we attack them? What are WJ, raptor persecution, Avery et al, doing which is illegal?........... It is we (by the incompetence of DEFRA) WJ allege, are acting contrary to the law! They are using DEFRA as a stalking horse from behind which, they are attacking us...........their blogs reflect this (with a liberal amount of unproven embellishment)..........So tell us what shooting can use through social media, to turn the tables and attack them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 Has been some good suggestions ideas recently re videos how about some adverts in the national newspaper re the initiative which give away game meals, or crops with pigeon damage, or lambs killed by corvids etc, Get the message across in away the general public would understand and outside the shooting world. Try and bust some of the untruths. Sell, celebrate shootings success in the likes of George digweeds records or mark winning the biggest prize in shooting, if need be pay for space in life style magazines outside shooting. WJ are not doing anything illegal rather the opposite using the legal process to their advantage, win or lose they create a noise a presence that they are fighting for wildlife. i am sure collectively we could do better, but I am no PR expert but may be the shooting organisations should be employing one or a advertising firm to sell shooting in all its forms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 11 hours ago, rbrowning2 said: Has been some good suggestions ideas recently re videos how about some adverts in the national newspaper re the initiative which give away game meals, or crops with pigeon damage, or lambs killed by corvids etc, Get the message across in away the general public would understand and outside the shooting world. Try and bust some of the untruths. Sell, celebrate shootings success in the likes of George digweeds records or mark winning the biggest prize in shooting, if need be pay for space in life style magazines outside shooting. WJ are not doing anything illegal rather the opposite using the legal process to their advantage, win or lose they create a noise a presence that they are fighting for wildlife. i am sure collectively we could do better, but I am no PR expert but may be the shooting organisations should be employing one or a advertising firm to sell shooting in all its forms. I don’t disagree! By all means, kick BASC for not doing what they can do!.............but it is pointless kicking them for things they don’t do because they are independently advised, they can’t win! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 hello, right on the bird nesting season, have seen more magpies this year and less song birds, mind you our domestic cats kill far more according to many reports, going to be a head ache for farmers and landowners in planting season, i can foresee 1000s more gas bangers across the UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 In 1979 the UK adopted the European Directive on the Conservation of Wild Birds. With all the things the government has to sort out on leaving the EU I doubt anyone has given much thought to this part of EU law, from the little I can find it seems that EU law with regards the wild birds directive will no longer apply to the UK. It seems WJ are mounting their challenge based on the law as it stands, whether this challenge will be null and void after the weekend I have no idea, anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 Not quite, take a look here for example, and see the link that refers to the Law in relation to it https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/809241/general-licence-wml-gl36.pdf David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 13 minutes ago, David BASC said: Not quite, take a look here for example, and see the link that refers to the Law in relation to it https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/809241/general-licence-wml-gl36.pdf David I am well aware of this paper but are the rules/laws that this paper covers not taken in part from EU laws, we are complying with EU rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 56 minutes ago, old'un said: In 1979 the UK adopted the European Directive on the Conservation of Wild Birds. With all the things the government has to sort out on leaving the EU I doubt anyone has given much thought to this part of EU law, from the little I can find it seems that EU law with regards the wild birds directive will no longer apply to the UK. It seems WJ are mounting their challenge based on the law as it stands, whether this challenge will be null and void after the weekend I have no idea, anyone? No, this whole 'EU law' supercedes UK law is a bit of a phallacy. EU directives need to be turned into either acts of parliament or statutory instruments (SI) in order to become law in the UK.* Brexit will not change this, everything that is on the statute books now will remain, unless parliament introduces a new act. As I understand it, the EU birds directive was enacted into the UK law under the wildlife and coutryside act 1981. Any lawyers reading this please correct any mangling of terms *This is where the whole gold-plating-legislation by over zealous civil servants comes from. Edited January 30, 2020 by udderlyoffroad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 3 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said: hello, right on the bird nesting season, have seen more magpies this year and less song birds, mind you our domestic cats kill far more according to many reports, going to be a head ache for farmers and landowners in planting season, i can foresee 1000s more gas bangers across the UK hello, not to mention the amount of Rooks and Crows since last years nesting season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 Until our organisations act together as a united front to combat this wherever they can the situation is hopeless? The previous action of DEFRA caving in as they did last time emboldened WJ and established a dangerous precedent? Sadly, seemingly, as with most other Official and Government bodies they prove by their actions to be weak, lacking on common sense and unfit for purpose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 All the organisations ae working together, we all have the same objective! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamch Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, David BASC said: All the organisations ae working together, we all have the same objective! Sorry l really can't believe that Packham et al are still at liberty to peddle their trash with no effective reply, opposition or getting them to shut up. High time our lot with their highly paid professional staff were more vocal and direct in challenging the bunny hugger brigade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 Getting into a shouting match with WJ is unlikely to help, what is more likely to win the day for sustainable shooting is for the shooting organisations to keep a positive and effective professional working relationship with DEFRA and NE and work with them to find a solution. We need strong legally robust licences that work for all of us. But I agree its down to all of us to challenge those who oppose sustainable shooting with robust facts and figures rather than rhetoric and threats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltings Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 4 hours ago, David BASC said: Getting into a shouting match with WJ is unlikely to help, what is more likely to win the day for sustainable shooting is for the shooting organisations to keep a positive and effective professional working relationship with DEFRA and NE and work with them to find a solution. We need strong legally robust licences that work for all of us. But I agree its down to all of us to challenge those who oppose sustainable shooting with robust facts and figures rather than rhetoric and threats. I agree a shouting match with idiots only drags you down to their level so name and target the individuals not the company they become liable in court or am I missing something licences mean we must comply / and get caught out on a technicality you only have to look at fox hunting what a crock of BS that should never have happened and the drama sense including the loop holes now trying to be closed and all the drama and court cases accusations have to be proved wrong despite costs a bit like harry shooting a marsh harrier however non ever seen on the estate the whistle blower goes free why not prosecute the lying types with the full weight of the law privately or public ally / badger culls work against tb in Ireland in the 70 however results never recorded as no iso 9000 then so today a fight to convince the inconvincible all without asking the farmers involved and a muppet that's never seen a farm says no I see any type if licencing as chipping away until there is nothing left so why not fight to get what we have lost back / fox hunting / hair coursing / shooting with lead / sea fishing / again a few we loose bit by bit we have nothing left so fight back they don't like it up em Mr Mannering French are known to carry a white flag walking backwards and yet they shut the country down in a heart beat when not happy head down bumbling along **** stays the same my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 20 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said: No, this whole 'EU law' supercedes UK law is a bit of a phallacy. EU directives need to be turned into either acts of parliament or statutory instruments (SI) in order to become law in the UK.* Brexit will not change this, everything that is on the statute books now will remain, unless parliament introduces a new act. As I understand it, the EU birds directive was enacted into the UK law under the wildlife and coutryside act 1981. Any lawyers reading this please correct any mangling of terms *This is where the whole gold-plating-legislation by over zealous civil servants comes from. Correct in both senses I fancy, but I wonder what Freud would have to say about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 14 hours ago, David BASC said: Getting into a shouting match with WJ is unlikely to help, what is more likely to win the day for sustainable shooting is for the shooting organisations to keep a positive and effective professional working relationship with DEFRA and NE and work with them to find a solution. We need strong legally robust licences that work for all of us. But I agree its down to all of us to challenge those who oppose sustainable shooting with robust facts and figures rather than rhetoric and threats. Agreed. So with NE seemingly incabable of getting their act together has BASC not tried writing a robust legally defendable version of the GL on their behalf? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 Indeed we will keep working with and offering guidance to NE and DEFRA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 On 31/01/2020 at 09:55, David BASC said: Indeed we will keep working with and offering guidance to NE and DEFRA basc refusing to consult with ne last time is why we only found out the fight of our lives was on from a press release major mistake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 Sorry, you are very mistaken. My I respectfully suggest you do proper research before making statements like this please. Making daft accusations will not help anyone or anything. Stick to facts please not emotive conjecture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 i am more than happy to apologise for the mistake as for false allegations i credit the forum with the intelligence to tell knocking from giving a opinion from my own personal experience i advise your do the same thank you for your time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 If you check you will find that BASC was in close discussion with NE last year, as indeed we were every year with NE, DEFRA and before that DOE regarding the renewal of GL's. but at the last moment NE's lawyers gave advice to NE to cancel the licences which was not what WJ had asked, they simply asked for a full and formal review of the licences through 2019 to ensure their legality, a task that has now been passed to DEFRA. This last minute change caused all the problems we saw last year. No need to apologise for your error, an easy mistake to make I guess, but regardless of your personal views of BASC, if you think about it, there would be no logic in BASC refusing to consult on GL's as we have been at the table of GL's every year since they came into existence. Moving on, the GL renewals for 2020 are still in discussion and under attack as we all know from certain quarters, its important that all those who use the GL's for crop or livestock protection, conservation work etcetera keep a close eye on the BASC website for updates and calls to action Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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