silver fox 1 Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 Hi I had an interesting conversation today with an older gentleman (Well older than me anyway so he must be old) about reloading shotgun cartridges, basically he was saying that if you reload your own you’re not insured, he also said that my local clay ground won’t let you shoot home loads because of no insurance. I haven’t heard this before and never really thought about it until today, So I thought I would throw this one out to the knowledgeable pigeonWatch massive. Thoughts please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 To what specific insurance do you refer? Generally I suspect, and I don’t know definitively? If you reload from published, proof tested data, I imagine you would be ok? But if you wildcat loads.....you may, in the event of an accident, Leave yourself liable to a claim, and void any insurance cover? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 Registered clay shoots don’t allow homeloads for obvious reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver fox 1 Posted March 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 10 minutes ago, panoma1 said: To what specific insurance do you refer? Generally I suspect, and I don’t know definitively? If you reload from published, proof tested data, I imagine you would be ok? But if you wildcat loads.....you may, in the event of an accident, Leave yourself liable to a claim, and void any insurance cover? Insurance you are provided with when you join one of the shooting organisations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver fox 1 Posted March 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 9 minutes ago, Smokersmith said: Registered clay shoots don’t allow homeloads for obvious reasons. Okay thanks, not that I would need to load for clays anyway it’s more if you were shooting in the field With home roads would you be insured, I don’t reload for shotgun at the moment but I’ve been looking into it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at kelton Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 This is too much of a generalisation. It depends what the policy says, if it excludes home loads fine but if not I can see no grounds for saying this. You are only worried if any damage caused can reasonably be attributed to the home load, not for example you peppering someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 Silver fox 1, who are you insured with? Surely they would be the people to ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver fox 1 Posted March 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 3 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Silver fox 1, who are you insured with? Surely they would be the people to ask. Basc Will give them a phone tomorrow, just wondered what everybody else does the reloads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 10 hours ago, silver fox 1 said: Basc Will give them a phone tomorrow, just wondered what everybody else does the reloads I am not 100% but think you are insured for reloading with BASC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 Am I right in understanding that to be approved a third party claim made against a holder of the mentioned insurance requires evidence of negligence. If the claim resulted from a defective cartridge then the negligence is surely pretty much a given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 The insurance would presumanbly only be for a third party! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 10 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: The insurance would presumanbly only be for a third party! Oh, silly me. I was under the distinct impression that we hadn't pinpointed which BASC insurance we were discussing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 16 hours ago, panoma1 said: To what specific insurance do you refer? Generally I suspect, and I don’t know definitively? If you reload from published, proof tested data, I imagine you would be ok? But if you wildcat loads.....you may, in the event of an accident, Leave yourself liable to a claim, and void any insurance cover? 16 hours ago, silver fox 1 said: Insurance you are provided with when you join one of the shooting organisations. 2 minutes ago, wymberley said: Oh, silly me. I was under the distinct impression that we hadn't pinpointed which BASC insurance we were discussing. If it is the insurance that comes with your membership it will invariably be 3rd party insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 1) Generally the venue's insurance will not cover them if a third party is injured by another third party who is using homeloads. The scenario would be that Joe Shooter is using his his homeloads and the scorer standing next to the cage is injured by debris from Joe Shooter's gun as it explodes owing to his unsafe handloads. 2)Additionally in this litigation prone day and age your won insurer (if indeed you are covered) may want to see evidence that you have submitted your homeloads to either Proof House for test. 3) Lastly the manufacturer or your gun/supplier of your gun will also attempt to walk away from any liability if homeloads are used. Item 1) is usually on the range rules of rules of the venue "No Homeloads" and item 3) is sometimes to be found in the booklet that comes with the gun when new. Item 2) is usually as you've breached the principle of uberimmae fidei that applies to insurance. Homeloads = possible increased risk = you should have declared it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 Uberrima fides is a Latin phrase meaning "utmost good faith". It is the name of a legal doctrine which governs insurance contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 This has been the rule for decades. Back in the late 60s and early 70s I used to load all the practise shells for our clay team and used a PW 375 producing some good quality shells BUT we always used factory for competitions. I think is must have been late 70s and it was suggested that we should not be able to use reloads in the future....long time ago... on the clay ground we used for practise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, enfieldspares said: 1) Generally the venue's insurance will not cover them if a third party is injured by another third party who is using homeloads. The scenario would be that Joe Shooter is using his his homeloads and the scorer standing next to the cage is injured by debris from Joe Shooter's gun as it explodes owing to his unsafe handloads. 2)Additionally in this litigation prone day and age your won insurer (if indeed you are covered) may want to see evidence that you have submitted your homeloads to either Proof House for test. 3) Lastly the manufacturer or your gun/supplier of your gun will also attempt to walk away from any liability if homeloads are used. Item 1) is usually on the range rules of rules of the venue "No Homeloads" and item 3) is sometimes to be found in the booklet that comes with the gun when new. Item 2) is usually as you've breached the principle of uberimmae fidei that applies to insurance. Homeloads = possible increased risk = you should have declared it. And so all the above would also be true if you were using steel shot in a gun that was never designed to use it or not proofed for it. home loading has been going on for decades, pistols, rifles and shotguns so not a new activity, so I would think insurance designed for shooting would cover home loading but may be David basc will comment. CPSA rules ban home loads in competitions, but they would won’t they. Edited March 6, 2020 by rbrowning2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver fox 1 Posted March 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 Very interesting thanks for the replies, I didn’t get to ring basc today, it’s been a busy day i’ll try tomorrow or Monday I’ll let you know what the outcome is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted March 8, 2020 Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 with this lead ban supposed to be in 5 years if your gun is not steel proof and you use factory steel loads in it if anything happens the gun maker will not help your insurance will not help nor the cartridge maker they will all walk away leaving you in deep doo doo this whole thing about making money nothing else no matter what they say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted March 8, 2020 Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 This older gentleman is clearly talking out of his backside. You maybe can't use reloads for registered shoots purely because they could give you an advantage of heavier loads but you definitely can for claybashing, and they are definitely as safe as any other cartridge if done properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted March 8, 2020 Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 15 minutes ago, sitsinhedges said: if done properly If. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted March 8, 2020 Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 2 hours ago, Rewulf said: If. It's still nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salopian Posted March 8, 2020 Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 A very interesting subject ! BASC actively promote home loading for Rifle ammunition in fact they do Courses for it , so you would think they would also support shotgun cartridge reloading? It will be interesting to hear their thoughts on the Insurance situation. Also Clay & Game Reloading advertise in BASC's in house magazine Shooting and Conservation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biketestace Posted March 8, 2020 Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 What about shooting all gauges during a NASSA skeet comp, im sure they reload ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver fox 1 Posted March 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 (edited) I’ve just had a reply from the insurance company they’re saying that Home Reloading Loading is fine as long as it’s within the law, As regards to putting steel shot through a non-proofed gun they said that would be one for the gun experts so it would appear you might not be insured Just to add this is only my insurance company your company could be different might be worth checking Edited March 10, 2020 by silver fox 1 To add Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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