Coronavirus and ethnic minority deaths

[Cheshirelad]

A group has questioned why the death rate is so high for people in ethnic minorities. What will they whine about next? 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/apr/10/uk-coronavirus-deaths-bame-doctors-bma

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Oh the old RACIST VIRUS stupidity raises its ugly head again.

 

When will someone complain that this Covid 19 virus is sexist and ageist too?

Edited April 24, 2020 by TIGHTCHOKE

[Mice!]

7 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Oh the old RACIST VIRUS stupidity raises its ugly head again.

 

When will someone complain that this Covid 19 virus is sexist and ageist too?

That's because man flu has always been deadly 😜

It has been brought up a few times, gives the journalists something to snipe about, the virus is the problem and its effecting everyone. 

[Ultrastu]

I dont understand the term minority 

Surely the term is irrelevant today .? 

[Vince Green]

How can a virus be racist???? Its indiscriminate.

Keir Starmer has appointed Doreen Lawrence to look into it, she said on TV at lunchtime that she hasn't got the figures yet but its clearly racist, she was shocked that the govt wasn't issuing a breakdown of the deaths by ethnicity. 

That sounds very impartial Doreen, I look forward to your report. Although I can guess already what it will say.

People are dying and they are trying to score cheap points

PS I hope Dianne Abbott isn't providing her with the figures

Edited April 24, 2020 by Vince Green

[Lampwick]

Just a few thoughts out there;

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_bioweapon

https

://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51413870

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/03/19/iran-irgc-coronavirus-propaganda-blames-america-israel/

 

[panoma1]

Does this mean Starmer believes only someone from the BAME community, is qualified to carry out an impartial, unbiased investigation on BAME matters? I find that discriminatory, its patronising to BAME people and insulting to White people!

Impartial and unbiased is as likely to be the outcome in this, as when the police investigate alleged misconduct of the police? Or government employeesinvestigate the Westminster MP’s expenses scandal?

[Vince Green]

30 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Does this mean Starmer believes only someone from the BAME community, is qualified to carry out an impartial, unbiased investigation on BAME matters? I find that discriminatory, its patronising to BAME people and insulting to White people!

Impartial and unbiased is as likely to be the outcome in this, as when the police investigate alleged misconduct of the police? Or government employeesinvestigate the Westminster MP’s expenses scandal?

I don't really see how Doreen Lawrence is qualified in any way to look into this. She is not medically qualified neither has she got a degree in statistical analysis. Her only qualification is that she carried out a very commendable campaign against the Met Police following the tragic murder of her son. 

I feel Starmer has loaded the gun and handed it to her

[Gordon R]

Naz Shah and now Doreen Lawrence. I do worry about his judgement.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just now, Gordon R said:

Naz Shah and now Doreen Lawrence. I do worry about his judgement.

He hasn't got any!

[peck]

Could it be that the "ethnic minority" are more inclined to live in extended families? with more people living together than white people.  

[ShootingEgg]

9 minutes ago, peck said:

Could it be that the "ethnic minority" are more inclined to live in extended families? with more people living together than white people.  

Potentially more people living under one roof, nothing racist about the virus... Just the way it spreads, means that environment is a breeding ground for it. Report carried out by shooting egg, whilst sat on his sofa on lockdown. Job done. Even watered the garden and it took longer than the report

[Mice!]

16 minutes ago, peck said:

Could it be that the "ethnic minority" are more inclined to live in extended families? with more people living together than white people.  

Far too easy how dare you, watching the ten o'clock news last night and they were showing the 8pm clapping,  went from Bolton to Blackburn there were at least three generations outside one terraced house and maybe 10 or 12 people there.

I don't know if they are living together to look after the older folk or it's a money saving thing but its obviously different to how folk I know live, there might be 4 or 5 in a house.

[oowee]

There is also a higher prevelance of cardiovascular disease in BAME groups. Men are also more likely to suffer with cardiomyopathy than women and that is one of the reasons men are more likely than women to succumb to covid. 

[panoma1]

1 hour ago, peck said:

Could it be that the "ethnic minority" are more inclined to live in extended families? with more people living together than white people.  

 

1 hour ago, ShootingEgg said:

Potentially more people living under one roof, nothing racist about the virus... Just the way it spreads, means that environment is a breeding ground for it. Report carried out by shooting egg, whilst sat on his sofa on lockdown. Job done. Even watered the garden and it took longer than the report

 

1 hour ago, Mice! said:

Far too easy how dare you, watching the ten o'clock news last night and they were showing the 8pm clapping,  went from Bolton to Blackburn there were at least three generations outside one terraced house and maybe 10 or 12 people there.

I don't know if they are living together to look after the older folk or it's a money saving thing but its obviously different to how folk I know live, there might be 4 or 5 in a house.

 

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

There is also a higher prevelance of cardiovascular disease in BAME groups. Men are also more likely to suffer with cardiomyopathy than women and that is one of the reasons men are more likely than women to succumb to covid. 

This all appears common knowledge, but the cynic in me expects those BAME activists looking to tip the equality balance in their favour, will surely find a racial angle to it!

[ShootingEgg]

Just now, panoma1 said:

 

 

 

This all appears common knowledge, but the cynic in me expects those BAME activists looking to tip the equality balance in their favour, will surely find a racial angle to it!

I'm sorry but a virus cannot be racist, if that's the case ebola was on another level

[panoma1]

7 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

I'm sorry but a virus cannot be racist, if that's the case ebola was on another level

No, but any difference (real or perceived!) in the protection, treatment and care (or lack of it) given to individuals from the BAME community as opposed to the protection, treatment and care given to white people......may actually be, or be interpreted (by someone with an agenda) as being down to racism?

[DoolinDalton]

There may be a connection, however remote...and one that perhaps is currently being investigated (amongst other issues) and it is vitamin D deficiency in people / races who have dark skin. There's no obvious connection between this and Coronavirus as yet....but there is a connection between vitamin D deficiency and breast cancer in people of Afro Caribbean descent , in the USA.   Obviously, not everyone who has succumbed to this virus has dark skin / is afro caribbean....but maybe there is some deficiency / underlying issue (apart from the obvious ones) that is susceptible to this virus.  

[ShootingEgg]

7 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

No, but any difference (real or perceived!) in the protection, treatment and care (or lack of it) given to individuals from the BAME community as opposed to the protection, treatment and care given to white people......may actually be, or be interpreted (by someone with an agenda) as being down to racism?

I'm white and getting no special treatment.. Is that racist? I totally get what you are saying but I'm tired of the card getting played every time. 

[Mice!]

43 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

I'm white and getting no special treatment.. Is that racist? I totally get what you are saying but I'm tired of the card getting played every time. 

We are all tired of it, but it looks good for labour if they make plenty of noise about this.

It's a real shame so many NHS workers have died while fighting this virus, and from what @7daysinaweek has told me part of it could be down to viral loading, if it somehow affects the BAME group more than white folk then what needs looking at is the exposure levels staff are getting not why it is affecting some races more than others ( I'm really trying to not sound racist here)

On the news tonight 37 year old twins have died from covid 19, both working with sick people old and young, did something affect them more genetically, was it viral loading? This really shocked me, for them to die three days apart working separately was truly shocking.

[7daysinaweek]

 

1 hour ago, Mice! said:

We are all tired of it, but it looks good for labour if they make plenty of noise about this.

It's a real shame so many NHS workers have died while fighting this virus, and from what @7daysinaweek has told me part of it could be down to viral loading, if it somehow affects the BAME group more than white folk then what needs looking at is the exposure levels staff are getting not why it is affecting some races more than others ( I'm really trying to not sound racist here)

On the news tonight 37 year old twins have died from covid 19, both working with sick people old and young, did something affect them more genetically, was it viral loading? This really shocked me, for them to die three days apart working separately was truly shocking.

Viral loading in a roundabout way is how much virus is detected in a given amount of body fluid which can be blood or plasma, flu virus is very infectious and a person needs only a small amount of viral particles to become unwell. Currently with Covid 19 it is still unclear how much an individual dose of particles is needed for the person to become ill, current thinking  is that from the rapidity of illness onset that it is relatively small from the present incidence and modeling from pre studies MERS/SARS 

For healthcare workers increased accumulative virus exposure increases the risk of loading more particles at each exposure and this can have a impact on whether you get mild symptoms or very ill. With some viruses the amount between a mild symptom dose and severe symptoms need only  be a small amount accumulated over several exposures. Obviously there are other significant factors which increase mortality and morbidity such as underlying health conditions.

Unfortunately viral loading carries an increased risk of worse outcomes for the individual and this was noted in previous studies of SARS and MERS coronovirus so it is presently assumed that this will also be the case with Covid 19. For this reason infection control measures amongst others include limiting the amount of time staff can work in a high risk exposure environment, measures include shorter shifts, regular breaks, and of course ppe. Oddly some cases have been seen to  a have large viral load and be asymptomatic or only mild symptoms but with MERS and SARS this was seen to have a increased worse outcomes for a greater percentage.

As for genetics there is no strong evidence at present that gives reason for the incidence of mortality in different ethnicities and only time and research will lead us hopefully to a conclusion. 

Right I off to bed!

atb

7diaw

[Cheshirelad]

11 hours ago, peck said:

Could it be that the "ethnic minority" are more inclined to live in extended families? with more people living together than white people.  

Reading between the lines, I think a lot of the complaints and/or questions are about the number of front line NHS nurses and doctors that are dying from the virus.

Instead of complaining, they should be praising the fact that so many of our front line NHS staff come from ethnic minorities. It's hardly surprising that a lot of them will contract C19, sadly many with fatal consequences.

This is a battle we'll never win.

[Hamster]

There is no way any irregularities in terms of deaths have a racial context, why the hell would it ? As Cheshirelad says they represent a huge part of front line doctors, nurses and consultants, the more that are exposed to risk the greater the unfortunate risk. 

[bluesj]

I saw a bit about this the other day, not sure what country the data was from but it looked like the numbers catching the virus as a percentage of the population  was give or take around then same for everyone but the severity was higher in darker skin people. The thoughts of the presenter was that there could well be some genetic difference causing it and a lack of vitamin D was one thing he came up with as dark skin does not produce it as well as lighter skin.

[Robertt]

The amount of young fit staff who have moved here only to die of this virus is troubling.

I wonder did they get all the same jabs as us.