Shooters against hate speech

[Conor O'Gorman]

Many thanks to forum members that have taken the time to post constructive criticism of BASC on this forum and/or contacted me directly - I can assure you that your feedback has made an impact. Please keep emailing me at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk with your views, ideas and suggestions.

We are facing multiple challenges this year and we can definitely each make a difference.

There is a growing trend in recent years on social media where toxic language against us is becoming mainstream and that is dangerous and we need to each challenge this online and offline with our family and friends as hate speech against shooting and other fieldsports where it arises. I know that this is not easy or comfortable at times.

When elected politicians call us 'animal abusers' and worse then we must absolutely rally as one to challenge these statements.

That brings me to the recent issue regarding social media posts by Green Party City of York Councillor Dave Taylor which included the post that "Jack ‘Bloodsports’ Charlton has died. Sick of the adulation of this animal abuser. Being good at kicking a leather football around does not absolve him.”

BASC has taken the following steps today:

1. written to Cllr Keith Aspden, Leader of City of York Council, seeking a personal apology from Cllr Dave Taylor to Jack Charlton's family.

2. written to Co-Leaders of the Green Party, Jonathan Bartley and Siân Berry, seeking an investigation and seeking clarity on the Green Party's position on its members calling people that shoot or fish 'animal abusers'.

3. reported Cllr Dave Taylor to Facebook requesting that his account be removed due to hate speech.

I will update further on this.

In the meantime your ideas and feedback on other actions would be most appreciated.

[WalkedUp]

Good work

[bruno22rf]

Yep, some sternly written letters should solve all our problems alright.

[Cawdor118]

@Conor O'Gorman - Great to see BASC following up on such 'serious misdemeanors' on Facebook. Its just a great shame your organisation doesn't follow up on the droves of like minded shooters leaving BASC for their utter contempt of the people they supposedly represent. 0/10 👎

[enfieldspares]

Heck. It is shameful.

Jumping on the coat-tails of people who are, rightly, offended by the odious remarks of this man Taylor is not going to divert people's dissatisfaction with BASC on lead shot, GP letters, removal of legal cover and etc., etc.. It is just convenient "smoke and mirrors" to try to hide the appalling recent track history of BASC. In fact it equally dishonours Jack Charlton's memory by so using him so. It is as almost disrespectful as is the conduct of the man Taylor.

If BASC had any serious intent against those that use toxic language against sportsmen and sportswomen it would have directly contacted all its 100,000 plus members and asked them to write to those advertising in The Daily Mirror threatening to boycott that advertiser's products following its recent front page vilifying Paul Roberts. Question. We can all "talk the talk" but where was BASC in emailing members asking then to contact Daily Mirror advertisers back in June?

Answer? Nowhere.

[Cannon]

Conor what about the BASC trying to shut down social media groups because the members of those groups are freely displaying their dissatisfaction with the BASC? Instead of trying to brush things under the carpet, you should be tackling them head on. Smoke and mirrors is absolutely right in this case. The organisation has done too little too late, and it's quite frankly laughable that you think a letter to a councillor will make any difference at all. Those who actively participate in the persecution of shooting sports have had their job made easier by the capitulations of the BASC. It seems that the only thing the BASC fights for is the interests of the wealthiest members. All you have to do is look at some of the prices of the clothing advertised with the magazine. Says it all really

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

3. reported Cllr Dave Taylor to Facebook requesting that his account be removed due to hate speech.

I will update further on this.

In the meantime your ideas and feedback on other actions would be most appreciated.

Sorry I don't like cancel culture and the blocking of free speech whichever side is using it.

Dave Taylor may be an awful human being with despicable views (I don't know him so I can't really say), but he has a right to an opinion.

[sam triple]

Like everything , hate speech. ,racism  etc only seems to flow one way in this country , but yes we need to stick up for ourselves, good work 

[Dave at kelton]

7 hours ago, Mr_Nobody said:

Sorry I don't like cancel culture and the blocking of free speech whichever side is using it.

Dave Taylor may be an awful human being with despicable views (I don't know him so I can't really say), but he has a right to an opinion.

It is not a matter of blocking free speech it is a matter of blocking offensive and inflammatory language. It is not about this councillor’s views but how he has expressed them. Well done BASC on this point.

I remain a supporter of BASC but it does need to address the numerous clangers it has dropped over recent months. As it is not about what you do but how you do it and some serious thought needs to be given to how policies are formulated, expressed, and communicated to the membership.

[WalkedUp]

14 minutes ago, Dave at kelton said:

It is not a matter of blocking free speech it is a matter of blocking offensive and inflammatory language. It is not about this councillor’s views but how he has expressed them. Well done BASC on this point.

I remain a supporter of BASC but it does need to address the numerous clangers it has dropped over recent months. As it is not about what you do but how you do it and some serious thought needs to be given to how policies are formulated, expressed, and communicated to the membership.

Great post 👍

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Dave at kelton said:

It is not a matter of blocking free speech it is a matter of blocking offensive and inflammatory language. It is not about this councillor’s views but how he has expressed them. Well done BASC on this point.

I remain a supporter of BASC but it does need to address the numerous clangers it has dropped over recent months. As it is not about what you do but how you do it and some serious thought needs to be given to how policies are formulated, expressed, and communicated to the membership.

That's how free speech works. You have an opinion, I have an opinion and the councillor has an opinion. Who decides what is offensive? If you're happy with the action BaSC is taking more power to you. As I said I don't like cancel culture, it has a habit of coming back to bite you in the ***. 

As I'm no longer a BaSC member they don't have to worry too much about what I think.

[dodgy dave]

yes but you still have to worry about what they do 

[Sussexboy]

Alongside the right to free speech comes the responsibility to use it wisely. No harm in reminding people of those responsibilities.

[LeedsZeppelin]

11 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

There is a growing trend in recent years on social media where toxic language against us is becoming mainstream and that is dangerous and we need to each challenge this online and offline with our family and friends as hate speech against shooting and other fieldsports where it arises. I know that this is not easy or comfortable at times.

I find this paragraph rather uncomfortable. Unless I've read it wrong, you (working on behalf of BASC) are suggesting that the entire membership, along with friends and family, should actively engage in arguments and flame wars on social media?

Do you seriously believe that mobilising an army of keyboard warriors, many of whom will have questionable literacy skills and knowledge, can be anything but a bad thing? Is this how a 'professional' organisation wants to be represented? Unfortunately, a lot of people regard the shooting community as paranoid crackpot dinosaurs and this tactic will only cement that opinion.

Hopefully I've read it completely wrong and it should read something like "we need all members to report any hate speech to our highly trained and dedicated social media PR team who will challenge these through the right channels, and follow up with methods designed to educate the public and show the organisation in the best light possible." But then again, BASC will have to dip into it's newly set up legal budget to do so.

In regards to the Dave Taylor situation, I commend BASC for taking action against the counsellor and hope that the opportunity has been taken to educate people about shooting. Hopefully it hasn't been handled in a way that could be seen as petty retaliation.

[Scully]

12 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Many thanks to forum members that have taken the time to post constructive criticism of BASC on this forum and/or contacted me directly - I can assure you that your feedback has made an impact. Please keep emailing me at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk with your views, ideas and suggestions.

We are facing multiple challenges this year and we can definitely each make a difference.

There is a growing trend in recent years on social media where toxic language against us is becoming mainstream and that is dangerous and we need to each challenge this online and offline with our family and friends as hate speech against shooting and other fieldsports where it arises. I know that this is not easy or comfortable at times.

When elected politicians call us 'animal abusers' and worse then we must absolutely rally as one to challenge these statements.

That brings me to the recent issue regarding social media posts by Green Party City of York Councillor Dave Taylor which included the post that "Jack ‘Bloodsports’ Charlton has died. Sick of the adulation of this animal abuser. Being good at kicking a leather football around does not absolve him.”

BASC has taken the following steps today:

1. written to Cllr Keith Aspden, Leader of City of York Council, seeking a personal apology from Cllr Dave Taylor to Jack Charlton's family.

2. written to Co-Leaders of the Green Party, Jonathan Bartley and Siân Berry, seeking an investigation and seeking clarity on the Green Party's position on its members calling people that shoot or fish 'animal abusers'.

3. reported Cllr Dave Taylor to Facebook requesting that his account be removed due to hate speech.

I will update further on this.

In the meantime your ideas and feedback on other actions would be most appreciated.

I would have thought that this was a perfect use to which BASC’s very expensive ‘media centre’ could be put to. Just a thought. 

[lancer425]

2 hours ago, Dave at kelton said:

It is not a matter of blocking free speech it is a matter of blocking offensive and inflammatory language. It is not about this councillor’s views but how he has expressed them. Well done BASC on this point.

I remain a supporter of BASC but it does need to address the numerous clangers it has dropped over recent months. As it is not about what you do but how you do it and some serious thought needs to be given to how policies are formulated, expressed, and communicated to the membership.

This^^^^^ and again well done BASC , you have to feel for jack charltons family. How must they have felt reading that, disgraceful statement.

[grrclark]

14 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Many thanks to forum members that have taken the time to post constructive criticism of BASC on this forum and/or contacted me directly - I can assure you that your feedback has made an impact. Please keep emailing me at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk with your views, ideas and suggestions.

We are facing multiple challenges this year and we can definitely each make a difference.

There is a growing trend in recent years on social media where toxic language against us is becoming mainstream and that is dangerous and we need to each challenge this online and offline with our family and friends as hate speech against shooting and other fieldsports where it arises. I know that this is not easy or comfortable at times.  There is also a clear trend on social media where the narrative from the shooting community is also hugely blinkered and toxic language is regularly used agains those who oppose shooting.  So what?  Almost every conversation on social media is toxic and polarised and is typically played out to either deliberately cause offense or for positive re-enforcement from an echo chamber.

When elected politicians call us 'animal abusers' and worse then we must absolutely rally as one to challenge these statements.  When an elected no mark local councillor makes a disrespectful statement let's get out the pitchforks.

That brings me to the recent issue regarding social media posts by Green Party City of York Councillor Dave Taylor which included the post that "Jack ‘Bloodsports’ Charlton has died. Sick of the adulation of this animal abuser. Being good at kicking a leather football around does not absolve him.”

BASC has taken the following steps today:

1. written to Cllr Keith Aspden, Leader of City of York Council, seeking a personal apology from Cllr Dave Taylor to Jack Charlton's family.  Fair enough for calling the man out on a distasteful remark and any reasonable person will have considered his comment as such.

2. written to Co-Leaders of the Green Party, Jonathan Bartley and Siân Berry, seeking an investigation and seeking clarity on the Green Party's position on its members calling people that shoot or fish 'animal abusers'.  Other than a bit of political point scoring what does this letter achieve in any practical sense?  The response will be the remarks made are not representative of the Green party and we regret any offence caused to Jack Charlton's family.  Meanwhile not a single individual in the Green party will give a moments consideration to changing their views on shooting.  The Green party policy on shooting is abundantly clear, throwing little political pebbles at them makes not an iota of difference in any practical sense at all.  It is political posturing, nothing more and achieves zero.  What it does highlight to me is where BASC see themselves, playing games of sophistry with the political class.  Of course some intern half way through their communications degree will write the letter back on behalf of the co-leaders, that is as much much weight as it will carry.

3. reported Cllr Dave Taylor to Facebook requesting that his account be removed due to hate speech.  Achieving what?

I will update further on this.

In the meantime your ideas and feedback on other actions would be most appreciated.

While I understand the sentiment behind the post in that BASC is doing something for us, fannying around on the periphery being the policeman of social media is hardly something to fly the flags about.

Anyhow, you don't have to worry about my comments, my subscriptions were stopped a while ago.  I can click on the report post button in Facebook all by myself.

[mossy835]

i was all ways with basc,but since you stopped the legal cover, i am going else where.

[oowee]

Good work we need much much more. 

[mick miller]

A small step in the right direction I think. This isn't calling for no-platforming but simply to bring the abhorrent comments to attention and seek an apology. I'm not going to condemn that, but there is much more work still to be done. 

Still, a step, I believe, in the right direction. As others have said, be mindful not to be drawn into the similar tit-for-tat type of flame wars that social media is so renowned for. 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, mick miller said:

This isn't calling for no-platforming

It clearly and very specifically is

Quote

3. reported Cllr Dave Taylor to Facebook requesting that his account be removed due to hate speech.

 

[mick miller]

Oh I had missed that. Please don't call for that, free speech is important, it allows individuals who harbor repellent views to be exposed. 

Its early, I haven't had my coffee today. 

Edited July 15, 2020 by mick miller

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, mick miller said:

Oh I had missed that. Please don't call for that, free speech is important, it allows individuals who harbor repellent views to be exposed. 

Its early, I haven't had my coffee today. 

Good man. 

My feelings exactly.

[Conor O'Gorman]

There was an article about this in the York Press yesterday

https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/18582550.facebook-urged-delete-councillors-account-charlton-comments/

We are continuing to follow-up our concerns with City of York councillors and the Green Party. 

[bruno22rf]

Why **** around with the Green Party - you are simply fanning their Ego. Is what the 50,000 tree huggers are saying really damaging to the 150,000+ BASC members? Sticks and Stones etc.