Wild Injustice

[steve s×s]

Hello everyone,  sat in garden at the mo, just watching a female sparrow hawke destroy a collared dove and two jackdaws sat close by, my guess is its taken the dove because its done the song thrush, black birds, house sparrows, starlings, Ho not harmed the charming magpie or the flaming squirrel, now here comes one of the favourites a **** hawk red kite, well done WJ. and so you should be 👎

[strimmer_13]

Think I should join wj the way some posts go on here... 

[Teal]

I'm not sure I understand the OP's post either...

[old'un]

Think he trying to make the point that he is not happy about the sparrow hawk taking all his garden birds, must say not one of my favourite birds either, worse than bloody magpies for killing garden birds.

[steve s×s]

7 minutes ago, old'un said:

Think he trying to make the point that he is not happy about the sparrow hawk taking all his garden birds, must say not one of my favourite birds either, worse than bloody magpies for killing garden birds.

Thanks, iam not the best with words 👍

 

[old'un]

21 minutes ago, steve s×s said:

Thanks, iam not the best with words 👍

 

That’s ok mate you have my sympathy, my garden also suffers from regular sparrow hawk attacks, unfortunately we are not allowed to shoot them.

[Dave at kelton]

1 hour ago, steve s×s said:

Thanks, iam not the best with words 👍

 

Not a problem mate we got the idea👍

[bruno22rf]

A sparrowhawk in your garden is something to be appreciated, not scorned. Birds of prey do what they do best to survive, what's the problem with Red Kites? If you want to look at pointless predation maybe you should look around at our feline pets?

[London Best]

20 minutes ago, bruno22rf said:

A sparrowhawk in your garden is something to be appreciated, not scorned. Birds of prey do what they do best to survive, what's the problem with Red Kites? If you want to look at pointless predation maybe you should look around at our feline pets?

Good point about the felines, but you have possibly not witnessed Red Kites picking off tired partridges after a drive on a large commercial partridge shoot?

[old'un]

1 hour ago, bruno22rf said:

A sparrowhawk in your garden is something to be appreciated, not scorned. Birds of prey do what they do best to survive, what's the problem with Red Kites? If you want to look at pointless predation maybe you should look around at our feline pets?

I for one could live without them and do all I can to discourage and frighten them from my garden, the only difference between a sparrow hawk and a magpie is, its illegal to kill one of them.

[Yellow Bear]

The trouble is there are between 10 and 20 times more Magpies than sparrowhawks depending on whose figures you use.  That is  at least 10 to 20 times more predation as the SH does not raid  nests to my knowledge.   One fact to be considered is that the Magpie is now the 13th most common(population) bird in the uk and still growing,  This can , in no way be good for the songbird/lbj populations.

[southeastpete]

2 hours ago, London Best said:

Good point about the felines, but you have possibly not witnessed Red Kites picking off tired partridges after a drive on a large commercial partridge shoot?

Ah, so it’s ok for all the rich toffs to go and pointlessly shoot the partridges just for fun, but the red kite which eats them literally to survive is the bad guy...?

Edited August 10, 2020 by southeastpete

[bruno22rf]

With the greatest respect, of the 2 descriptions - "large commercial partridge shoot" and "Red Kite" I have little doubt which I detest the most. 

Edited August 11, 2020 by bruno22rf

[Scully]

There’s got to be a place and space for all things surely? I wouldn’t want anything eradicated as they all make up part and parcel of our fabulous flora and fauna; some things just need controlling more than others, and I don’t mean raptors. 
 

[Pushandpull]

Sparrowhawks and kites have been protected for a great many years. I don't see what this has to do with WJ.

[NatureBoy]

Glorious 12th tomorrow. Annnnnd guess what? The WJ three are on about another sat tagged eagle (Tom) disappearing over a grouse moor and blaming us. When did it disappear? May 18th. Strange.  No bird! No body! No evidence!  Even Packham says i can't tell you what happened to him. BOP persecution is wrong! But imagine trying to get a jury to believe that one! Case dismissed!. Enough spin in video and mood music to get there baying mob going though. . . . Saw Packham being interviewed on Hardtalk by reporter Stephen Sachur. Almost crocodile tears claiming HE is the voice of the song thrush and the poisoned eagle.  Strange fella! Poor actor!     

What other PW folk think of the new GWCT Fact Checker Website launched last week? Again. Not seen it mentioned on there. Seems good and a good idea. Avery and co been going over it and have strangely not dissed it.         NB     

[ShootingEgg]

18 hours ago, bruno22rf said:

A sparrowhawk in your garden is something to be appreciated, not scorned. Birds of prey do what they do best to survive, what's the problem with Red Kites? If you want to look at pointless predation maybe you should look around at our feline pets?

My partner has two cats, so far this year two starling fledglings in kitchen, three mice, sloworms ive saved 5... Hawks arent on my list of hate. Is amazing to watch them 

[steve s×s]

22 hours ago, strimmer_13 said:

Think I should join wj the way some posts go on here... 

I am sure theyed have you 😇 this is sarcasm for one shooter to another

[steve s×s]

23 hours ago, steve s×s said:

Hello everyone,  sat in garden at the mo, just watching a female sparrow hawke destroy a collared dove and two jackdaws sat close by, my guess is its taken the dove because its done the song thrush, black birds, house sparrows, starlings, Ho not harmed the charming magpie or the flaming squirrel, now here comes one of the favourites a **** hawk red kite, well done WJ. and so you should be 👎

It's not just sparrow hawks, it's the stupid rules and regs put in place to stop us (you and me) controlling vermin, preditors what ever where ever, no one wants to eradicate raptors, I thought it to be a fairly basic request but it seems like we don't have the same hymn sheet, 

[Stonepark]

3 hours ago, steve s×s said:

It's not just sparrow hawks, it's the stupid rules and regs put in place to stop us (you and me) controlling vermin, preditors what ever where ever, no one wants to eradicate raptors, I thought it to be a fairly basic request but it seems like we don't have the same hymn sheet, 

The problem is that when everyone has that view , i.e. I just need to control this one, as it's the one affecting my job/birds/etc that is causing me issues.  and as evidenced by the past, the birds of prey are then driven to extinction , as it is always someone else (i.e. not the person wishing to cull) who should put up with them.

 

[Teal]

I don't think we do sing from the same hymn sheet Steve. I certainly don't think there should be carte blanche for control whatever where-ever, for the reasons in the previous post. Shooting has got itself into a right mess because of poor practice, and that scrutiny will only get more intense. 

The ST is a weak publication these days (imo), but its tag line certainly used to be: "The wildlife of today is not ours to dispose of as we please. We have it in trust. We must account for it to those who come after."

Wildlife doesn't just refer to game and songbirds.

[NatureBoy]

And guess what? It's another TAGGED Hen Harrier reported missing over a grouse moor now. It's getting hard to keep up. No evidence it's dead, back story,  info or time line. Crazy. Just enough to keep there followers going coming up to the Glorious 12th, DGS and shooting. What timing.

I don't think any of us sing from Steve's hymn sheet! Pest and vermin control is necessary. But all wildlife matters! Any conservation and education we can do to help it in this crowed land is important.

Why you think ST is a weak publication Teal? Is that a reflection on shooting or poor journalism? They should still use that tag line. Say's it all!    NB            

 

[scotslad]

3 hours ago, Stonepark said:

The problem is that when everyone has that view , i.e. I just need to control this one, as it's the one affecting my job/birds/etc that is causing me issues.  and as evidenced by the past, the birds of prey are then driven to extinction , as it is always someone else (i.e. not the person wishing to cull) who should put up with them.

 

 

Let's get 1 thing straight BoPs where not driven to near extinction by keepers, it was DDt reducing the reproductive rate to almost zero which caused the lowest BoP numbers.

But as usual that fact doesn't suite certain factions sound bites.

 

I'm not saying keepers weren't killing a few and keeping numbers low, but raptor numbers where at lowest when keeper numbers where also at lowest and when most posions be and traps where already long banned.

Blaming it entirely on keepers is nonesense

 

If keepers truely where responsible raptors would off been at lowest either pre WW1 or 2 when keepers numbers were high and posioning and trapping them was still normal

 

Someone said earlier magpies are 13th most common bird I'll hazard a guess many of top 10 will be predator/vermin species. Which are generally rising whereas many prey species in free fall since 70s or 80s, many species down 80% by BTO figures

Not healthy in any healthy sustainable ecosystem ur prey species need to be at the bottom off any biomass/population pyramids ( ie more mass and higher populations off prey species and fewer predators as u go up the pyramid )

 

[NatureBoy]

Spot on! Great post Scotslad!       NB

[Stonepark]

7 hours ago, scotslad said:

 

Let's get 1 thing straight BoPs where not driven to near extinction by keepers, it was DDt reducing the reproductive rate to almost zero which caused the lowest BoP numbers.

But as usual that fact doesn't suite certain factions sound bites.

 

I'm not saying keepers weren't killing a few and keeping numbers low, but raptor numbers where at lowest when keeper numbers where also at lowest and when most posions be and traps where already long banned.

Blaming it entirely on keepers is nonesense

 

If keepers truely where responsible raptors would off been at lowest either pre WW1 or 2 when keepers numbers were high and posioning and trapping them was still normal

 

Someone said earlier magpies are 13th most common bird I'll hazard a guess many of top 10 will be predator/vermin species. Which are generally rising whereas many prey species in free fall since 70s or 80s, many species down 80% by BTO figures

 

 

 

of the 16 native raptors the Osprey, Sea Eagle, Honey Buzzard, Goshawk and Monetgeaus Harrier were all lost before WW1, 40 years before the introduction of DDT, similarly other raptors suffered large population declines over the same period.

Whilst DDT did affect all raptors to a limited extent, the primary effect was on Peregrine's and Sparrowhawk's as they both eat large amounts of farmland birds who were themselves consuming the contaminated crops.

I did not specifically blame keepers, that was you putting words in my mouth

, I have made it clear in other posts that farmers through changing habitat and removing threats have played as much, if not a greater role in raptor decline as keepers.

Whilst a lot of the prey species have suffered serious declines in percentage terms (mainly linked to modern farming reducing habitat and being more efficient) they still outnumber raptors considerably by orders of magnitude.

 

On the list of most common UK birds, Magpies are 610,000 pairs so about no 30

 

Top ten most common birds in UK are :

Wren 11m pairs

Robin 7.35m

House Sparrow 5.3m

Woodpigeon 5.15m

Blackbird 5.05.

Chaffinch 5.05m

MeadowPippit 2.45m

Starling  1.75m

Goldfinch 1.65m

Skylark 1.55m

 

Raptors Populations are

 

Osprey 240 pairs

Sea eagle 123

Golden Eagle 510

Monetgeaus Harrier 8

Hen Harrier 545

Marsh Harrier 695

Merlin 1150

Hobby 2,050

Peregrine 1,750

Goshawk  620

Sparrowhawk 30,500

Kestrel 31,000

Rough legged buzzard  15

Honey buzzard 69

Red Kite 4,400

Buzzard 87,500

I hope the above had gone some way to straightening you out.