BASC update

[islandgun]

I thought this was a good effort 

https://mailchi.mp/3ad404e66f2c/the-latest-from-basc-1761142?e=0c97ed672f

[Fellside]

Yes - great effort!

[Scully]

That’s more like it, and about time too! Well done. 

[holloway]

positive stuff well done !

It would be nice if the usual Basc bashers didnt slate there efforts.(not holding my breath)

 

[Scully]

2 minutes ago, holloway said:

positive stuff well done !

It would be nice if the usual Basc bashers didnt slate there efforts.(not holding my breath)

 

I’m a ‘BASC basher‘; it’s very well done but they have a long way to go yet to redeem themselves in my opinion. But like I said, very well done....it’s a start. 🙂

[holloway]

27 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’m a ‘BASC basher‘; it’s very well done but they have a long way to go yet to redeem themselves in my opinion. But like I said, very well done....it’s a start. 🙂

If you dont mind me saying ....your posts always seem more like constructive critism nothing wrong with that and always seem fair and reasoned to me .

[Scully]

1 hour ago, holloway said:

If you dont mind me saying ....your posts always seem more like constructive critism nothing wrong with that and always seem fair and reasoned to me .

You must have missed some! 😀

[clangerman]

3 hours ago, holloway said:

positive stuff well done !

It would be nice if the usual Basc bashers didnt slate there efforts.(not holding my breath)

 

i would comment but as joe public can’t afford to shoot grouse i’m to busy cringing at this two finger gesture to the one section we desperately need to connect with and that is a observation not a bash 

[WalkedUp]

Good on BASC, great front cover. 

[NatureBoy]

Two very good new vids from TGS/NGO on YT also. For Peats Sake and Is Conservation Cruel. Very well made and worth a watch.           NB 

[holloway]

4 hours ago, clangerman said:

i would comment but as joe public can’t afford to shoot grouse i’m to busy cringing at this two finger gesture to the one section we desperately need to connect with and that is a observation not a bash 

Predictable .👍

[Scully]

8 hours ago, holloway said:

Predictable .👍

He makes a valid point to be fair. Game Shooting in general and Grouse shooting in particular is perceived to be exclusive and elitist, perhaps we could do well to try and impart those aspects which impact and include the lives of the working classes whom depend on it for their livelihoods and without said folk none of it would happen. 
We’re well away from the cap doffing days thankfully, but it is a perception those who despise us still try to push......the divide between the wealthy elite and the common man. 
That mindset does still persist ( even on here ) and it serves well all of us to try and change that mindset. 
 

[holloway]

2 hours ago, Scully said:

He makes a valid point to be fair. Game Shooting in general and Grouse shooting in particular is perceived to be exclusive and elitist, perhaps we could do well to try and impart those aspects which impact and include the lives of the working classes whom depend on it for their livelihoods and without said folk none of it would happen. 
We’re well away from the cap doffing days thankfully, but it is a perception those who despise us still try to push......the divide between the wealthy elite and the common man. 
That mindset does still persist ( even on here ) and it serves well all of us to try and change that mindset. 
 

Wouldn’t disagree it’s a subject that keeps coming up ,they could win a lot of friends by doing the same thing for ferreting ,pigeon shooting etc things that a lot of us grew up with ,start at the ground roots were they grew from (wildfowling for instance ).A good test for Basc will they spend the same sort of money on the other end of shooting.Watch this space !

[mick miller]

Unlikely to get views on pigeon shooting, deer stalking, target shooting, air rifle shooting, rough shooting, vermin shooting published and promoted by the British Association for Game Shooters though. In reality, large paid days and anything that can help support the investment of members money into the (rather odd) British Game Alliance seem to be the main focus. Which is fine, just don't pass yourself off as representative of the wider community and seek to influence, usually to the detriment, wider firearms policy. That is, unless and until you deem it prudent to consult us first.

Edited August 13, 2020 by mick miller

[harkom]

1 hour ago, mick miller said:

Unlikely to get views on pigeon shooting, deer stalking, target shooting, air rifle shooting, rough shooting, vermin shooting published and promoted by the British Association for Game Shooters though

I guess that all of these  sports can be undertaken , or will have to be undertaken in the near future, using "non-toxic" shot ?

Edited August 13, 2020 by harkom
predictive text fault

[mudpatten]

It took ten posts.

[ShootingEgg]

On 12/08/2020 at 18:47, clangerman said:

i would comment but as joe public can’t afford to shoot grouse i’m to busy cringing at this two finger gesture to the one section we desperately need to connect with and that is a observation not a bash 

Seriously, if you want to shoot grouse put a few quid aside each week. Skip the pub or something youd normally do. Yeah its not cheap but neither is a big pheasant shoot. If you shoot like we all do, back all types of game. Atleast grouse are wild and dependent on numbers days are numbered. Stop moaning and ne positive about shooting as a whole. 

[Terry2016]

30 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

Seriously, if you want to shoot grouse put a few quid aside each week. Skip the pub or something youd normally do. Yeah its not cheap but neither is a big pheasant shoot. If you shoot like we all do, back all types of game. Atleast grouse are wild and dependent on numbers days are numbered. Stop moaning and ne positive about shooting as a whole. 

Well said, 

I know many people who actually pay for pigeon shooting.  I also know others who could not afford that.

 

[Bobba]

42 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

Seriously, if you want to shoot grouse put a few quid aside each week. Skip the pub or something youd normally do. Yeah its not cheap but neither is a big pheasant shoot. If you shoot like we all do, back all types of game. Atleast grouse are wild and dependent on numbers days are numbered. Stop moaning and ne positive about shooting as a whole. 

I do recognise the point you are making but it begs the question about how many pub visits you'd skip or other sacrifices you'd make to shoot pheasant / grouse.

For example, on Dawney Estates, Yorkshire. There, their 2020 est prices (Aug / Sept) for 125 brace day is £23,250 per day, 8 guns,  £2,900 each. It therefore remains the case that for those on the "average" annual salary in the Bristol area of £35k it equates to one month's salary before deductions. For those on the minimum wage of £8.72/hr it equates to about 320 hours or 2 months pay. For those in that position the headline figure £2900 will always make it an exclusive rich mans sport and cloud out the employment and other benefits it brings to those in the rural community, many of whom, likewise, are living on the minimum wage. To my mind the price v income gap comparison can never be bridged.......... Sadly.

[clangerman]

56 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

Seriously, if you want to shoot grouse put a few quid aside each week. Skip the pub or something youd normally do. Yeah its not cheap but neither is a big pheasant shoot. If you shoot like we all do, back all types of game. Atleast grouse are wild and dependent on numbers days are numbered. Stop moaning and ne positive about shooting as a whole. 

if i wish to shoot grouse i would but don’t want to anyway if game shooting wants to allow basc to bring the papers and public down on their backs that’s perfectly ok with me i’m a pigeon shooter 

[ShootingEgg]

5 minutes ago, Bobba said:

I do recognise the point you are making but it begs the question about how many pub visits you'd skip or other sacrifices you'd make to shoot pheasant / grouse.

For example, on Dawney Estates, Yorkshire. There, their 2020 est prices (Aug / Sept) for 125 brace day is £23,250 per day, 8 guns,  £2,900 each. It therefore remains the case that for those on the "average" annual salary in the Bristol area of £35k it equates to one month's salary before deductions. For those on the minimum wage of £8.72/hr it equates to about 320 hours or 2 months pay. For those in that position the headline figure £2900 will always make it an exclusive rich mans sport and cloud out the employment and other benefits it brings to those in the rural community, many of whom, likewise, are living on the minimum wage. To my mind the price v income gap comparison can never be bridged.......... Sadly.

Bobba i myslef fall into that bracket and work in Bristol. If I wanted a day on the grouse id be able to put the money to one side. Its a matter of choices. 

[Bobba]

Shooting Egg, we both seem to be lucky enough that it remains an achievable choice for both of us. But the point I was trying to make was the perception that by comparison with average wages it remains a rich mans sport, despite the benefits it brings to local communities. Sadly, given this gap, the anti's will continue to exploit the rich mans sport and, given the comparisons I made, I do not know how this perception can be overcome. ATB

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by Bobba

[enfieldspares]

I paid £60 when I had my day on driven grouse. Back in 1989 or 1990. The Laird had decided he wanted to re-start it on his deer forest after a gap of forty years or so. So he asked if we...a group of eight of us...as "guinea pigs" would like to try it out for for the same price he charged for the walked up grouse the estate usually offered. Unsurprisingly nobody declined the invitation and it went very well. We used some of the original butts (last used in the 1950s) on some drives on on others he was experimenting totally from fresh we stood behind butts made from pallets. It was absolutely exhilarating stuff and I can certainly see why it commands a premium price. Save old school driven partridge (which I've also shot) there is nothing that comes close. If I could even consider the price now I'd shoot nothing else. Driven pheasant shooting by comparison with either is way behind but OTOH is a lot easier to guarantee (as much as it can ever be guaranteed) a predicted bag count and that is why now it dominates so.

Edited August 15, 2020 by enfieldspares

[scotslad]

2 hours ago, Bobba said:

I do recognise the point you are making but it begs the question about how many pub visits you'd skip or other sacrifices you'd make to shoot pheasant / grouse.

For example, on Dawney Estates, Yorkshire. There, their 2020 est prices (Aug / Sept) for 125 brace day is £23,250 per day, 8 guns,  £2,900 each. It therefore remains the case that for those on the "average" annual salary in the Bristol area of £35k it equates to one month's salary before deductions. For those on the minimum wage of £8.72/hr it equates to about 320 hours or 2 months pay. For those in that position the headline figure £2900 will always make it an exclusive rich mans sport and cloud out the employment and other benefits it brings to those in the rural community, many of whom, likewise, are living on the minimum wage. To my mind the price v income gap comparison can never be bridged.......... Sadly.

 

That's all very well but wot about all the school kids that are out 6 days a week beating on moors the now?? Plenty off kids will be doing that for next few weeks till they go back to schol

Cracking money for them.

Many off the valleys with grouse don't always have massive tourism industry without the money from grouse shooting would be a lot less employment and income into those areas.

 

As for paying for a day the prices get cheaper later on in the season and if u can shoot on a good grouse year most keepers will be no bag limit and will encourage u to shoot as many as possible to get them off the hill.

Usually prices for driven are 150+ a brace but many off ur fancier pheasant shoots are now 50-60 a bird plus vat, not that much difference.

And when u factor in grouse moors can't always rely on shooting every year unlike a released game shoot

 

Yes 3k is a massive ammount for a day but how many folk are spending vast ammounts on thermals or NV gear, and then sell it weeks later

Look how many folk turn up in beaters car parks with fancy pick ups yet never see any mud.

Basically folk find the money if they really want too, just depend wot u want more.

Yes it is not a working man's sport but it never has been or will be, but lots of sports and hobbies are like that.

How much is a season ticket at a big trendy premiership club now?

Even fitba which was a working class sport is barely a working man's sport any longer ( esp by time match ticket, programme if still a thing, bevy, food, fitba top, plus ur likely sky and BT subs so u can watch it, not cheap now(

 

Wether or not u want to afford a day at the grouse or not, it is the most defendable and only type off truely sustainable shooting in the Uk, if we can't defend it the rest of shooting is screwed.

And don't think even vermin/pest shooting is guaranteed safe look wot has happened with GLs recently.

The anti's don't care how rich u are or wot u shoot they want all shooting stopped and will and do use every trick there is, if they can use class warfare or jealousy or lead ( althou basc have done that for them) so just because u only shoot pigeon ur shooting is safe.

[ShootingEgg]

10 hours ago, Bobba said:

Shooting Egg, we both seem to be lucky enough that it remains an achievable choice for both of us. But the point I was trying to make was the perception that by comparison with average wages it remains a rich mans sport, despite the benefits it brings to local communities. Sadly, given this gap, the anti's will continue to exploit the rich mans sport and, given the comparisons I made, I do not know how this perception can be overcome. ATB

 

I understand what you are saying 100% but isn't any hobby experience. Take golf for example, decent set of bats £1700 - £2000. Membership to fancy club thousand £. Golf balls £3 a pop. Any hobby, sports or past time is going to cost money. So its all about choice. For some on here basc is just a punch bag. They cant do anything right. Get positive media to joe public on the 12th and get a mouthful, yet if they'd done nothing they'd get the same....