Lockdown shooting

[hodge911]

Covid-19 restrictions update:
new lockdown in England
 
BASC has been in contact with ministers, MPs and civil servants regarding the imminent national lockdown in England. Our interpretation of the information issued by government to date is as follows:

• Driven game shooting should cease on Thursday 5 November and is expected to resume on Wednesday 2 December. England will return to a local and regional approach on 2 December.

• BASC is lobbying to ensure that Covid-19-safe driven game shooting can resume when lockdown ends.

• Essential bird and mammal pest control to protect crops or livestock may continue during the lockdown period.

• The government has stated that where people cannot work effectively from home they should continue to travel to work/attend their workplace. Game management and gamekeeping activities may continue during the lockdown period.

• Rough shooting, wildfowling and deer management may continue during the lockdown period as outdoor recreational activities, as long as you comply with the guidance. This includes making short journeys to your place of exercise, and you can only exercise with people you live with, your support bubble (if you are living alone), or one person from another household. Government guidance can be found here: www.gov.uk/guidance/new-national-restrictions-from-5-november

• The government has ordered shooting ranges to close to reduce social contact.

• When shooting during lockdown, we would advise taking a copy of your shotgun or firearm certificate with you and paperwork for your permission to shoot on the land you are on.

• Everyone shooting during lockdown should consider the impact of their actions on the reputation of shooting.

We will update the above advice as and when new information arises. The underpinning legislation has not yet been published and will be subject to a parliamentary vote on Wednesday 4 November. To keep abreast of the situation, please see the BASC website: basc.org.uk/coronavirus/

[Walker570]

The last bullet point is the most important. 

Certainly I read this that tree rat control in red areas is still within the rules. Not easy to support it out of those areas.

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, cheers Hodge👍

[Jacko3275]

Gutted booked on a shoot for the 30th no doubt well I hope it’s just postponed for a week or  so

[captainhastings]

You folks got lucky allowed rough shooting and wildfowling locally. We got none of that 

[greylag]

Certainly are lucky, the principality had a complete shutdown of shooting except pest control.Straining at the leash to get back on the marsh after the 9th.

[marsh man]

53 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

The last bullet point is the most important. 

Certainly I read this that tree rat control in red areas is still within the rules. Not easy to support it out of those areas.

Now we know driven game shoots are on hold till at least December the 2nd , how would the clients get on who have just paid in full for a day that should have been over the next few days ? , we are not to bad as our two shoots during the lockdown are family and friends and can be rearranged hopefully when this nightmare start to decline and we can head out to the pegs again, but some of these big shoots can't fit a month of lost shoots with less than two months left , and that is if we can carry on from Dec 2nd 

[captainhastings]

5 minutes ago, greylag said:

Certainly are lucky, the principality had a complete shutdown of shooting except pest control.Straining at the leash to get back on the marsh after the 9th.

Same I have booked monday off. Going to sit in a ditch at first light. Can't wait

[greylag]

 

3 minutes ago, captainhastings said:

Same I have booked monday off. Going to sit in a ditch at first light. Can't wait

Can't fault you,getting quite excited .It feels like the start of the season.Getting the gear ready again.Some nice seasonal weather now.

[Walker570]

I had three days booked in November, looking to see if they can be rescheduled but agree it will be difficult, at least there should be plenty of birds about in Jnauary.

Managed to get a day tomorrow on the partridges which fills in for Thursday.

[Smokersmith]

Yep .. my phone rang this morning and it took me all of a second to say yes!

All packed up ready to go in the morning!!

[roadkill]

Beaters day will be a good one 

[Jacko3275]

42 minutes ago, roadkill said:

Beaters day will be a good one 

👍😁

[Mice!]

8 hours ago, marsh man said:

Now we know driven game shoots are on hold till at least December the 2nd , how would the clients get on who have just paid in full for a day that should have been over the next few days ? , we are not to bad as our two shoots during the lockdown are family and friends and can be rearranged hopefully when this nightmare start to decline and we can head out to the pegs again, but some of these big shoots can't fit a month of lost shoots with less than two months left , and that is if we can carry on from Dec 2nd 

I'd imagine the big days take out insurance?

[JohnfromUK]

4 hours ago, Mice! said:

I'd imagine the big days take out insurance?

When I ran a biggish shoot (back in 1980s/90s) we offered insurance as an option.  We made the introduction, and if taken up, it was arranged directly by the client (i.e. the insurance co was paid for direct by the client and any claim paid direct to the client).  We simply supplied the relevant details (date, day size covered, etc.) as requested by the insurance company.

The reason was to give transparency and not getting involved as 'broker' and in the 'small print' details.  I think the client could also 'add in' accommodation, transport cover as options as well.

If I remember rightly - there were various reasons - weather being prime - and I don't remember the details, but premiums shot up after the foot and mouth year - although in our area that was over by the time the season began.  I think there may have been cheaper 'weather only' in addition to 'all risks' type insurance.  Like all insurance, there was quite a lot of 'small print'.

[mossy835]

so on saturday i can go after the grays there are a few about.

[marsh man]

5 hours ago, Mice! said:

I'd imagine the big days take out insurance?

I dare say after the end of this season, insurance will be high on the agender when days are booked up for next year , maybe when you book a day the shoot owners include a built in insurance cover as part of the days cost ? . 

This is season is bad enough from the guns point of view, but for the game farms and those that put on the days shoots I would imagine they are having a lot of sleep ness nights and nightmares  .

[JohnfromUK]

1 hour ago, marsh man said:

I would imagine they are having a lot of sleep ness nights and nightmares  .

I'm sure - as we did in the Foot and Mouth times.  We were lucky - that all came OK in  the end before the season started.

[Scully]

6 hours ago, marsh man said:

I dare say after the end of this season, insurance will be high on the agender when days are booked up for next year , maybe when you book a day the shoot owners include a built in insurance cover as part of the days cost ? . 

This is season is bad enough from the guns point of view, but for the game farms and those that put on the days shoots I would imagine they are having a lot of sleep ness nights and nightmares  .

I’m not sure how it works actually. It’s ok the guns asking for insurance, but I doubt the shoots would get insurance against being stuck with thousands of game birds they have paid for? 
If we don’t shoot this season, we have lost £280 each. It isn’t a lot each admittedly, in the bigger scheme of things, but the game dealers have been paid for those birds by shoots large and small. There is no recompense to the estates or shoots, and those birds will be left to roam free to meet a different end to the one they were destined for. 
If we come out of lockdown next month as planned, we have two months before shooting pheasants becomes illegal. 

[Old farrier]

3 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’m not sure how it works actually. It’s ok the guns asking for insurance, but I doubt the shoots would get insurance against being stuck with thousands of game birds they have paid for? 
If we don’t shoot this season, we have lost £280 each. It isn’t a lot each admittedly, in the bigger scheme of things, but the game dealers have been paid for those birds by shoots large and small. There is no recompense to the estates or shoots, and those birds will be left to roam free to meet a different end to the one they were destined for. 
If we come out of lockdown next month as planned, we have two months before shooting pheasants becomes illegal. 

You may find you have a bigger bill as I’m sure as a responsible shoot you will be feeding them and the numbers arnt decreasing and the weather is getting harsher 

[Mightymariner]

20 hours ago, captainhastings said:

Same I have booked monday off. Going to sit in a ditch at first light. Can't wait

Imagine if this post was anywhere other than PW. The results would be fantastic. 🤣

[JohnfromUK]

22 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’m not sure how it works actually.

When I was involved, it worked like this.

The day was insured, and we had been paid in for in advance for the day (i.e. all fees, meals - everything except tips).

IF the day was cancelled due to say fog, and we shot less than 25% of the day - the client got a full refund, and the shoot retained the client's original payment.  I think if it was more than 25% shot before being cancelled, then I think a partial refund could be arranged  (it never arose).  For insurance to pay, the weather had to be deemed to be 'unsafe' for shooting rather than just a rainy day.  Dangerously high winds and fog/ice/snow were OK, but I imagine nowadays you mightv need a met office weather warning to be in place for them to deem it bad enough.   It was 'pre internet' days then.

As an aside, IF we had to cancel a day that wasn't insured such as for weather, we attempted to put on a replacement day later in the season.  It was always a bad situation for us as weather cancellations were at short notice we had caterers to pay, had to fit a (ideally similar sized) day in later etc.  I only recall doing it twice, once for bad fog, and once for snow.

[Scully]

17 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

When I was involved, it worked like this.

The day was insured, and we had been paid in for in advance for the day (i.e. all fees, meals - everything except tips).

IF the day was cancelled due to say fog, and we shot less than 25% of the day - the client got a full refund, and the shoot retained the client's original payment.  I think if it was more than 25% shot before being cancelled, then I think a partial refund could be arranged  (it never arose).  For insurance to pay, the weather had to be deemed to be 'unsafe' for shooting rather than just a rainy day.  Dangerously high winds and fog/ice/snow were OK, but I imagine nowadays you mightv need a met office weather warning to be in place for them to deem it bad enough.   It was 'pre internet' days then.

As an aside, IF we had to cancel a day that wasn't insured such as for weather, we attempted to put on a replacement day later in the season.  It was always a bad situation for us as weather cancellations were at short notice we had caterers to pay, had to fit a (ideally similar sized) day in later etc.  I only recall doing it twice, once for bad fog, and once for snow.

Cheers. I can understand clients getting their money back, but I can’t see the estates or other shoots being reimbursed for a cancelled season, when there will be no replacement days. 

47 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

You may find you have a bigger bill as I’m sure as a responsible shoot you will be feeding them and the numbers arnt decreasing and the weather is getting harsher 

Our fees include feed. 👍

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Scully said:

I can’t see the estates or other shoots being reimbursed for a cancelled season

In the days when I was involved - it was individual days that might be cancelled.  The estate had got paid (in the client's original payment) - so for a single day cancelled due to say bad weather, it wasn't a big issue.  With us - only a few clients actually took insurance, but then we only ever cancelled two days I think in probably 10 or 12 years.

[marsh man]

26 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’m not sure how it works actually. It’s ok the guns asking for insurance, but I doubt the shoots would get insurance against being stuck with thousands of game birds they have paid for? 
If we don’t shoot this season, we have lost £280 each. It isn’t a lot each admittedly, in the bigger scheme of things, but the game dealers have been paid for those birds by shoots large and small. There is no recompense to the estates or shoots, and those birds will be left to roam free to meet a different end to the one they were destined for. 
If we come out of lockdown next month as planned, we have two months before shooting pheasants becomes illegal. 

These coming cancelled days through the virus is something we have never in our wildest dreams would have thought possible , one of the other posters mentioned foot and mouth which I can remember well and I don't think we lost any days , JohnfromUK have just posted about days being lost through bad weather , like John was saying it is at the very last resort the day is called off through weather , looking back for say the last 20 years I can only remember three days where even then we shot till dinner time and as the weather conditions didn't improve it was decided to call it a day , on one day it was thick fog and when I put the guns out I couldn't see the pegs until I was nearly on to them , they had a duck drive and two Partridge drives before the fog got to bad , they were offered a day later on in the season at a reduced rate as far as I can remember , another day was the owners day and it was snowing hard all morning , as the guns were invited and getting on in age a bit they decided to call it a day when they went in the hall for lunch , then the last time was on a shoot I had been going on for a good number of years and this time was through heavy rain , strong wind and freezing temp , the rain got in places I didn't know could get wet and it was bitterly cold , again we done four drives by dinner and as it was a syndicate day the guns agreed enough was enough and we were home just after dinner , so we are losing more days on the two shoots through this lockdown, than adverse weather conditions and foot and mouth over the last 20 years , strange times indeed .