Danish Mask Study

[Scully]

1 hour ago, treetree said:

I think the mask wearing is here to stay for a lot longer...

Part of the problem with the vaccine being rushed to market is that I'd imagine no one really knows the long term efficacy of it. Is it a one off jab or every 6 months?. All the while, masks are here. Unless you are exempt of course.

And sadly it will become the normal, based on the many "what's the big deal, it's just a mask" comments here alone.

Most of the jabs currently available are multiples, consisting of two a month apart. 
I don’t think mask wearing will last much longer than the roll out of vaccines, unless on a voluntary basis. Any agenda to make it mandatory afterwards will meet mass non compliance hopefully. 
If shops then insist on it then I’ll take my business elsewhere.....time will tell how that pans out. 

[loriusgarrulus]

22 minutes ago, Westward said:

I don't see how wearing a mask can possibly do much to prevent the wearer spreading the virus. Anyone here use reading glasses? If so put them on whilst masked up to look closely at a product and hey, they steam up almost instantly.

Conclusion:  Most of the exhaled breath goes straight out of the top of the mask which is of course the path of least resistance.

I wear a mask only to comply with the rules and to avoid confrontations. Almost all studies show that the real transmission risk is through handling things like trolleys  etc because so many people simply put on the mask and then walk straight past the hand sanitizer.

IMO it's the wrong way round; masks should be optional and sanitizing should be obligatory on entry to the premises.

If your glasses steam up while wearing a mask it definitely isn't  fitting properly. I wear glasses. I also wear a mask and policarbonate face shield while shopping. My glasses don't steam up. The mask I have is a Trend Stealth mask with a rubber type seal and elasticated straps that go completely round my head. It has 0.3 micron filters in it. I can't  risk catching this as I have a heart condition. I wash the supermarket trolley handle and my hands before and after going into a shop too. The shopping gets washed when I get home before it gets in the house as do all deliveries. Even simpler masks fit better and don't  steam your glasses up if they have a bendable metal nose band to shape to the top of your nose.    

I used to wear face masks and airstream hoods at work all the time and none of them steamed our glasses up as they were properly fitted. People need educating on how to fit and wear a mask properly.

[Westward]

I use the standard mask you see everywhere, including by on duty NHS staff. It has a metal strip for the nose bridge but it doesn't go anywhere near sealing fully. Education doesn't come into it, most masks are useless.

 

[bluesj]

If you want to see how you using a mask can help others just put one on the next frosty morning you have and look at the difference in how far your breath reaches. None of the disposable type masks cam stop viruses passing through not even the ffp3 (or n95 in other parts of the world)  but they will  slow your breath so it and any virus hitching a ride will not reach as far.

But this isn't going to really work if you are in a an enclosed space with no ventilation, I use ffp3 masks in part of my work to try to stop bacteria but I also have the doors wide open so the air in the room is always being changed. 

[Newbie to this]

4 minutes ago, bluesj said:

If you want to see how you using a mask can help others just put one on the next frosty morning you have and look at the difference in how far your breath reaches. None of the disposable type masks cam stop viruses passing through not even the ffp3 (or n95 in other parts of the world)  but they will  slow your breath so it and any virus hitching a ride will not reach as far.

But this isn't going to really work if you are in a an enclosed space with no ventilation, I use ffp3 masks in part of my work to try to stop bacteria but I also have the doors wide open so the air in the room is always being changed. 

And none of which helps, when you are spreading the virus, on every surface you touch. Including the mask you have just gotten out of your pocket.

[bluesj]

1 minute ago, Newbie to this said:

And none of which helps, when you are spreading the virus, on every surface you touch. Including the mask you have just gotten out of your pocket.

But the chances of getting covid from surfaces is much lower than getting it from droplets in the air  someone else is breathing out plus there would be less contamination on surfaces if mask were used, so why not use a mask and help someone else's odds in the hope that others do the same for you. After all  you don't point a loaded gun at someone else to protect your self from being shot do you

[Yellow Bear]

13 minutes ago, bluesj said:

If you want to see how you using a mask can help others just put one on the next frosty morning you have and look at the difference in how far your breath reaches. None of the disposable type masks cam stop viruses passing through not even the ffp3 (or n95 in other parts of the world)  but they will  slow your breath so it and any virus hitching a ride will not reach as far

Sadly there are none so blind as those who do not want to see.   We all know the mask is not 100% but it does reduce transmission and  keeping your distance is a large help as, to some extent, does sanitising etc.  It also appears to have been found that transmission other than by airborne particles amounts to less than 10% (allowing the maximum error).

[Newbie to this]

19 minutes ago, bluesj said:

But the chances of getting covid from surfaces is much lower than getting it from droplets in the air  someone else is breathing out plus there would be less contamination on surfaces if mask were used, so why not use a mask and help someone else's odds in the hope that others do the same for you. After all  you don't point a loaded gun at someone else to protect your self from being shot do you

I never once said don't wear a mask, in fact quite the opposite.

I'm pointing out that a virus can also spread through touch, and if you do not wash/sanitise your hands after touching a possibly infected surface (which is every surface when out), then reach for your mask, thus infecting the mask, and then putting said mask over the very places the virus loves to enter the body, then you are effectively infecting yourself with the very measures you think are protecting you.

Wear a mask, yes, but washing/sanitising your hands is as equally (if not more) important.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Newbie to this

[bluesj]

2 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

Sadly there are none so blind as those who do not want to see.   We all know the mask is not 100% but it does reduce transmission and  keeping your distance is a large help as, to some extent, does sanitising etc.  It also appears to have been found that transmission other than by airborne particles amounts to less than 10% (allowing the maximum error).

It does seem that a lot of people only look at what will help them and the rest can go swivel.

I can somewhat see that someone could be against having the vaccine as cockups have been made in the past, I think the only one I've had is polio and lots of people had had it years before me, I am a bit skeptical about the accuracy of the covid test and even the number of deaths  But I can't for the life of me see a reason not to use a mask!

[bluesj]

4 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

I never once said don't wear a mask, in fact quite the opposite.

 

 

 

Sorry! it wasn't meant to be aimed at you or anyone in particular 

[das]

On 21/11/2020 at 11:54, oscarsdad said:

If I were in power not only would I make the vaccine (and all other vaccines) compulsory, I would also erect guard towers in all towns and cities, anyone seen without wearing a mask or not socially distancing gets a rubber bullet to the nuts.  Same treatment would apply to any man carrying a handbag / wearing skinny jeans / having a man bun 

When you get in power, please can I become your assistant?😃😃😃

[loriusgarrulus]

The name of the game is "Viral Load Reduction" 

The less virus that gets on or in you the less chance of coming down with the disease.

I carry a 50ml 70% isopropyl alcohol spray (IPA) with me at all times outside the house. My mask gets sprayed inside and out as does the visor after use before it goes in its bag. My hands get sprayed before the mask and visor get taken out of the bag to put on. When the mask filters get changed they get soaked in IPA before dumping.

Edited November 22, 2020 by loriusgarrulus

[mel b3]

55 minutes ago, loriusgarrulus said:

The name of the game is "Viral Load Reduction" 

The less virus that gets on or in you the less chance of coming down with the disease.

I carry a 50ml 70% isopropyl alcohol spray (IPA) with me at all times outside the house. My mask gets sprayed inside and out as does the visor after use before it goes in its bag. My hands get sprayed before the mask and visor get taken out of the bag to put on. When the mask filters get changed they get soaked in IPA before dumping.

Of all the posts that have been written on the subject,   the lady above is the one that we should be taking notice of . She probably has a greater understanding of the subject than the rest of pw combined. With the added bonus that she only trades in facts , and good common sense 👍.

[treetree]

And yet even with all this mask wearing cases are apparently still on the rise.

I'd love to know where all the flu cases have gone. Anyone know?

[ordnance]

3 minutes ago, treetree said:

And yet even with all this mask wearing cases are apparently still on the rise.

I'd love to know where all the flu cases have gone. Anyone know?

 Seasonal flu (influenza) UK, people usually get seasonal flu between December and March.

[AVB]

1 hour ago, treetree said:

And yet even with all this mask wearing cases are apparently still on the rise.

I'd love to know where all the flu cases have gone. Anyone know?

Reclassified as Covid. 

[wyn]

I think people are mixing up the differences between "masks" and ffp type "respirators".

Edited November 22, 2020 by wyn

[loriusgarrulus]

The big problem is a lot of people wear a mask grudgingly because they have to. They wear the cheapest paper disposable mask they can find. If they bother to cover both their mouth and nose its a bonus. No thought goes into face fit or seal. It gets stuffed in their pocket and then dragged out next time to wear again with no thought as to whether its "clean". People drag their mask down to cough in their hands  put the mask back up then maul packets on the shelves (we have seen this done and challenged them) Been told to F off too. Some shops have security on the door. If you haven't got a mask you don't  get in. Others don't, and don't challenge non mask wearers or bother to refuse them service at the tills.

Another part of the problem is a lot of people have got complacent as its gone on a long time. If they haven't lost anyone close to them or had them seriously ill they aren't being careful. Children and students going back into education hasn't helped. Our 11 year old Niece in Norfolk went back to school,  caught covid then gave it her Mum and Dad. They are on the mend now, but have been quite ill. Seasonally these type of virus always tend to increase over Winter too like flu.

[Mice!]

25 minutes ago, loriusgarrulus said:

Another part of the problem is a lot of people have got complacent as its gone on a long time. If they haven't lost anyone close to them or had them seriously ill they aren't being careful. Children and students going back into education hasn't helped. Our 11 year old Niece in Norfolk went back to school,  caught covid then gave it her Mum and Dad. They are on the mend now, but have been quite ill. Seasonally these type of virus always tend to increase over Winter too like flu.

I think that's certainly true,people have become complacent and bored of covid, I'm grateful that none of my immediate family or friends have had covid but family know people that have died now.

A few lads in work have tested positive but none has been ill so its viewed as being blown out of proportion,  something for older people to worry about.

 

 

[treetree]

16 minutes ago, Mice! said:

A few lads in work have tested positive but none has been ill so its viewed as being blown out of proportion,  something for older people to worry about.

With an average age of death of 82.4 years old (ONS stats) they have a point.

[loriusgarrulus]

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19roundup/2020-03-2

 

Since the start of the pandemic, there have been 58,645 COVID-19 deaths registered in England and Wales, up to 6 November 2020 (32,433 men and 26,212 women).

The majority of deaths involving COVID-19 have been among people aged 65 years and over (52,446 out of 58,645).

 

This shows you still have nearly 6000 deaths in the under 65's.

[Dougy]

You can do 2 things regarding any attempt to prevent contacting the Virus,  

1. Try and prevent either yourself or others from contracting C19 by wearing a mask

2. Do nothing at all and show total disregard to either you, your family or anyone you come close to. 

 

We have plenty of "It wont get me" type at work, just like when your elders warn you about smoking and cancer, "IT WONT GET ME"  well its took plenty that thought it wouldnt. 

[Mice!]

25 minutes ago, treetree said:

With an average age of death of 82.4 years old (ONS stats) they have a point.

That's the average age, and many may have died from normal flu this winter, but there are many who are seriously ill in hospitals around the country who will be a lot younger than 82.4 years old.

18 minutes ago, loriusgarrulus said:

This shows you still have nearly 6000 deaths in the under 65's.

That's almost 6000 families who have lost someone. 

20 minutes ago, Dougy said:

You can do 2 things regarding any attempt to prevent contacting the Virus,  

1. Try and prevent either yourself or others from contracting C19 by wearing a mask

2. Do nothing at all and show total disregard to either you, your family or anyone you come close to. 

 

We have plenty of "It wont get me" type at work, just like when your elders warn you about smoking and cancer, "IT WONT GET ME"  well its took plenty that thought it wouldnt. 

Tell me @treetree do you actually wear a mask? Has anyone you know had covid? Are you purely anti government thinking this is all made up?

[Stonepark]

Latest figures are that only 339 people under 60 and without underlying conditions have COVID19 recorded as the cause of death on their deaths certificate.

Total deaths recorded with COVID19 on certificate under 65 (both with and without underlying conditions) is 6200.

Thus is only 10% of recorded deaths for the same age group on an annual basis, 90% of the under 65 age group are dying from other causes.

[Stonepark]

COVID Pandemic

 

https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/pandemic-over-former-pfizer-chief-science-officer-says-second-wave-faked-false-positive