Safety standards in the old days

[Scully]

Back in the early ‘70’s two local hardmen were negotiating the sale of a shotgun ( I have no idea if it was legally owned) in the home of one of them, when for whatever reason the trigger was pulled, instantly killing the wife of one of them.  
No prosecution ever took place and it was deemed a tragic accident, although the police at the time tried their hardest to prove otherwise. 
I was too young to remember it really, but grew up with the rumours which abounded that the one had always been very jealous of the other for making this woman his wife, and I can also recall them fighting in the street one night regarding this. 
Many years later I worked with a retired copper who told me that at the time the police were convinced it was no accident. 
Both men are still around and must be over 70 now, and have their own successful businesses.
I am friends with the one whose wife was killed but have never broached the subject. 

 

Edited November 23, 2020 by Scully

[mossy835]

best left un said.

[Scully]

14 minutes ago, mossy835 said:

best left un said.

Yes, I’ve always thought so. 

[London Best]

When I was 16 a lad a year younger used to come shooting with me and borrow my single barrel .410. When he was talking to his neighbour one day the neighbour offered to lend him his double 12 bore next time out. We were waiting for pigeons at roosting time and my friend wandered over to chat. A pigeon flew round and he cocked both hammers. The pigeon cleared off without offering him a shot, so to uncock the gun he held the right hammer and pulled the left trigger. A huge hole appeared, the edge just touching my welly toe. I only ever gave him one cartridge at a time after that.

[Shadowchaser]

A safety catch does not a safe gun make.

I prefer manual safety catches on guns and usually walk (on a rough shoot) with the safety off and break the gun if I'm crossing unstable ground. I don't point the gun at anyone or anything that isn't meant to be shot at. 

[London Best]

2 minutes ago, Shadowchaser said:

I don't point the gun at anyone or anything that isn't meant to be shot at. 

This is the key to safety, not safety catches, not broken guns with or without cartridges in, but MUZZLE AWARENESS AT ALL TIMES.

[marsh man]

10 minutes ago, London Best said:

This is the key to safety, not safety catches, not broken guns with or without cartridges in, but MUZZLE AWARENESS AT ALL TIMES.

With the amount of near misses and close shaves in the shooting fields it's a wonder we don't hear about many more accidents with guns , yes we do hear about  the odd death but there must be a hell of a lot of accidents that go without a mention to the general public .

We had a chap in our club who is passed away now had only one leg , he lost his other one by crawling on the ground while dragging his hammer gun behind him , I think you can put two and two together to know what happened and how he was left with only one leg .

Another chap on our shoot had a very lucky escape even though he nearly lost his arm , he was rabbiting and held his gun upright in the crook of his arm , for some reason it slipped down his arm and the stock hit the ground hard resulting in the gun being discharged , half his underside of his arm was blown off , he was rushed to hospital and the surgeons done well to save his arm even though it left him with a lot of nerve damage and a scar that would put you off of your tea.

Going back in time it must have been part of the package to having minor and not so minor accidents , punt gunning was dangerous and so was shoulder gunning with some of the weapons that were used with the owner having very little money for repairs, this old boy was known locally as Pintail Thomas , hard as nails and only had a few fingers that were still attached to his hands , in mild weather they were ok , in the harder weather he had to cover them up with his fingerless gloves and carry on shooting a few fowl to feed the family , no food banks in those days , how I would have loved to had a pint or two with him , times we will never see again . 

[London Best]

I loaded several times for a certain man, a multi-millionaire entrepreneur, obviously (you would think) not lacking in intelligence. Half his left thumb was missing, due to holding his gun close to the muzzles with his thumb over the end and somehow??? I was not with him when the incident occurred.

[BlaserF3]

Years ago I was shooting PP1 at turning targets the bloke on my right was shooting a revolver and I knew for a fact that he only got one shot off and the last target, we were told to clear weapons which was followed by a shot from the shooter on my right which just missed my right foot. He was asked to go and never came back.

When I was nine or ten, a mate's dad who was a fishmonger  who dealt from a Thames van, a bit like a mobile shop really, always had a lot of money at home kept a loaded Luger in a drawer which we used to pick up, luckily we kept our fingers off the trigger

[Scully]

8 minutes ago, BlaserF3 said:

Years ago I was shooting PP1 at turning targets the bloke on my right was shooting a revolver and I knew for a fact that he only got one shot off and the last target, we were told to clear weapons which was followed by a shot from the shooter on my right which just missed my right foot. He was asked to go and never came back.

When I was nine or ten, a mate's dad who was a fishmonger  who dealt from a Thames van, a bit like a mobile shop really, always had a lot of money at home kept a loaded Luger in a drawer which we used to pick up, luckily we kept our fingers off the trigger

A bloke I know blew up his S&W 586 .357 revolver on the 30 mtr MOD range we used for pistol shooting. We never did find the top strap! Luckily he wasn’t hurt, nor the blokes stood either side of him. 
The same man some years later put two rounds of .22-250 through the wing of his own Range Rover while out lamping foxes! 😀

[Shadowchaser]

Among shooters local to me is the story of a bloke (a bank manager at the time I believe) who had put a 20ga shell in his 12ga, got distracted and put a 12ga shell in behind it.  This resulted in a 12/20 burst. It blew the side of the gun out and took his thumb off.  

I suppose there would be two separate explosions in such an event, one when the hammer strikes the 12ga shell and then that shell exploding the 20ga. 

 

Not a safety related issue but one of the most disturbing stories I heard from my Dad was that of another local fella years back.  He committed a murder/suicide. He loaded his gun went downstairs and shot his wife and then himself. Only the shot to his head didn't kill him. He was eventually found upstairs having had to crawl up, load the gun again and finish the job.  Horrible stuff and I can't think what it must be like to discover something like that.   

Apologies for that being on the grim side and somewhat off topic. 

 

[BlaserF3]

9 minutes ago, Scully said:

A bloke I know blew up his S&W 586 .357 revolver on the 30 mtr MOD range we used for pistol shooting. We never did find the top strap! Luckily he wasn’t hurt, nor the blokes stood either side of him. 
The same man some years later put two rounds of .22-250 through the wing of his own Range Rover while out lamping foxes! 😀

Our club secretary blew a few of his guns up with "hot" loads, I'll not mention his name though 😳

[Scully]

2 minutes ago, BlaserF3 said:

Our club secretary blew a few of his guns up with "hot" loads, I'll not mention his name though 😳

😂

[BlaserF3]

1 minute ago, Shadowchaser said:

Among shooters local to me is the story of a bloke (a bank manager at the time I believe) who had put a 20ga shell in his 12ga, got distracted and put a 12ga shell in behind it.  This resulted in a 12/20 burst. It blew the side of the gun out and took his thumb off.  

I suppose there would be two separate explosions in such an event, one when the hammer strikes the 12ga shell and then that shell exploding the 20ga. 

A novice did the same thing at Coniston he was using a Beretta O/U, no injuries though.

 

 

[stuartyboy]

When I was very early teens, my friends dad kept guns in his attic. Was pre cabinet/security days. One day we bunked off school for a look at his dads guns. We went up the attic and found, amongst others, a 410 bolt action. My friend loaded and fired off a round. Right through the roof. In the middle of a housing estate. Happy days. Luckily no injuries 

[Rob85]

Rifle club I used to be a member of had a real "big I am" range officer taking a bunch of full bore club rifles and under 18 shooters to a range day, his responsibility to ensure all guns were clear before leaving the range..... guess what idiot fired a 7.62 round off in the car park while loading guns into the boot of his car. Luckily the only damage done was ringing ears 😐

[Guest cookoff013]

unloaded guns rarely go off. - fact.

 

[Demonic69]

I don't know about back in the day. I was shooting practice stands a few months ago and was waiting for a group to vacate the stand I was on next. An older gent, probably about 70, was the last to shoot and was getting ready to call it. I was idly watching to pick up some pointers. He loaded 2, shot the single, then declared that was enough. Cracked his gun, left the stand and went to slip the gun before heading to the next. I politely advised him that he'd left a live cart in the gun when he closed it. Purely an accident, just doing what he's done hundreds of times without thinking. He was incredibly embarrassed as he took the live cart out and apologised no end to all and sundry. No harm was done, but shows how a simple lapse can cause an un-safe incident.

Coming from a PSG shooting background I'm amazed at the general lack of safety at clay grounds, with guns chucked over shoulders or semis carried low. I get that the guns are, probably, safe. It was just ingrained in me that you never point a gun at something you don't expect to shoot

[Farmboy91]

I had gun safety drummed into me by my old man with an air gun when I was young, on the odd occasion my lad wants to use his air gun he knows the first thing to do is to repeat those words back to me. 

Even if he never takes to shooting like I have I like to think he will always be competent around a gun, even if others are not.

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by Farmboy91
Spelling

[Vince Green]

Some twenty years ago we were taken by a friend to a clay shoot in Cyprus.

I could write a whole page about what we saw and we were only there an hour. People walking about with guns unbroken. Swinging them around, loaded guns coming out of or going back into cars. "A Greek man never has an unloaded gun" said our friend with a laugh. "Its their way"  He thought it was funny .

I could tell you similar stories about my time in the US where things were equally casual, but even at Bisley forty years ago the old timers would walk around carrying a rifle with the bolt closed.

[discobob]

20 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Some twenty years ago we were taken by a friend to a clay shoot in Cyprus.

I could write a whole page about what we saw and we were only there an hour. People walking about with guns unbroken. Swinging them around, loaded guns coming out of or going back into cars. "A Greek man never has an unloaded gun" said our friend with a laugh. "Its their way"  He thought it was funny .

I could tell you similar stories about my time in the US where things were equally casual, but even at Bisley forty years ago the old timers would walk around carrying a rifle with the bolt closed.

Cypriots had a similar attitude to driving when I lived out there in the early 90's.

 

I do reff'ing for a local ground on skeet and I reprimand anybody I see doing anything dodgy which I see as part of that job. with skeet there is a certain order to loading the gun that a lot of people tend to shortcut but I enforce. 

I remember having to tell one guy off because he had popped two shells in as he walked onto the first peg and was going to "see the clays" - he was ex-military as well

[Blackpowder]

Years ago in the 1960s before when Lindisfarne was a free for all, Sunday morning at the causeway car park quite a few cars . people  dogs milling around.  Some buffoon had left a loaded gun propped against his car, excited dogs the gun knocked over and discharge at ground level.  It was a miracle no one was lamed, but after that I always used Fenham Mill as a parking place.

 

Blackpowder

 

 

Just now, Blackpowder said:

Years ago in the 1960s before when Lindisfarne was a free for all, Sunday morning at the causeway car park quite a few cars . people  dogs milling around.  Some buffoon had left a loaded gun propped against his car, excited dogs the gun knocked over and discharge at ground level.  It was a miracle no one was lamed, but after that I always used Fenham Mill as a parking place.

 

Blackpowder

 

Typo ignore the word before above

[oscarsdad]

On 24/11/2020 at 11:57, Vince Green said:

Some twenty years ago we were taken by a friend to a clay shoot in Cyprus.

I could write a whole page about what we saw and we were only there an hour. People walking about with guns unbroken. Swinging them around, loaded guns coming out of or going back into cars. "A Greek man never has an unloaded gun" said our friend with a laugh. "Its their way"  He thought it was funny .

I could tell you similar stories about my time in the US where things were equally casual, but even at Bisley forty years ago the old timers would walk around carrying a rifle with the bolt closed.

I’ve been on a range in Florida having a play with handguns as we can’t here, 9mm and .45 - not much safety in terms of hand over passport and given handguns and ammo and shown the door to the range. Luckily I was competent and very safety conscious. In the lane next to me, was a local....with his .50 desert eagle cannon. He was shooting a target at 8yds. Didn’t hit it once and then the air con blew his spare target down the range...he ran after it immediately, waving his cannon around as his did so despite others shooting either side of him! I jumped out of the way and legged it to the door of the range out of the way! He genuinely couldn’t see what he’d done wrong when another local rather colourfully pointed out...

Edited November 25, 2020 by oscarsdad

[London Best]

2 hours ago, oscarsdad said:

I’ve been on a range in Florida having a play with handguns as we can’t here, 9mm and .45 - not much safety in terms of hand over passport and given handguns and ammo and shown the door to the range. Luckily I was competent and very safety conscious. In the lane next to me, was a local....with his .50 desert eagle cannon. He was shooting a target at 8yds. Didn’t hit it once and then the air con blew his spare target down the range...he ran after it immediately, waving his cannon around as his did so despite others shooting either side of him! I jumped out of the way and legged it to the door of the range out of the way! He genuinely couldn’t see what he’d done wrong when another local rather colourfully pointed out...

To be fair, I had quite the opposite experience on a range in Nevada. I took my Son in law to have a play as he had never used handguns. The range safety was very impressive. Security airlock doors in and out and as visitors we were only allowed in under the supervision of the most gorgeous young female range officer imaginable. Laughably, the target was a silhouette about fifteen yards away. My lad shot 10 metre air pistol at home so assumed a one handed hold. Range beauty said,”no,no, you will never hit anything like that, use combat grip.” He said he would try his way first and proceeded to put 30 rounds from four different calibres into about a two inch hole. The lady showed the target to everyone else there.

[Vince Green]

On 23/11/2020 at 20:55, Shadowchaser said:

 Only the shot to his head didn't kill him. He was eventually found upstairs having had to crawl up, load the gun again and finish the job.  Horrible stuff and I can't think what it must be like to discover something like that.   

Apologies for that being on the grim side and somewhat off topic. 

 

That is not uncommon apparently, an American policeman friend of mine years ago told me many people who try to commit suicide do so by putting the gun to the temple and pulling the trigger. The shot then passes below the brain rather than into it. The injury is catastrophic but far from immediate death.

look in the mirror and you can see how it could be like that.