Clarkson vs Covid (but mostly the BBC)

[Mice!]

21 hours ago, Gordon R said:

A decent article by Clarkson. 

Got to love Retsdon's impartial critique.

No mention of Corbyn - the serial liar. No mention of Starmer and his so far unfulfilled promise to rid the Labour Party of anti-semitism or his offer to work with the Government, putting party politics to one side.

Straight for Boris. Not a trace of bias at all. 🤥

I enjoyed the Clarkson article thanks @chrisjpainter

as for Retsdon's reply,  I scrolled straight past.

[oldypigeonpopper]

22 hours ago, figgy said:

Starmer or should be Smarmer gets right on my pink pointy bits.

All he does is spout in hindsight what he would do and what Boris didn't do, or didn't do quick enough, the man is as bad as wee Jimmy Crankie. In times like we have now all the parties should be mucking in not scoring points.

Hello, I see charmer wants a full uk lock down, perhaps he should pay for everyone not working heating bills being at home, 

[Gordon R]

In fairness to Starmer, Diane Abbott has guaranteed funds. She is growing a money tree on Corbyn's allotment.

[Mice!]

9 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, I see charmer wants a full uk lock down, perhaps he should pay for everyone not working heating bills being at home, 

Peston has just said its likely another full lockdown will come and I wouldn't be surprised,  Starmer saying it is easy because Labour don't have to fund it and when it happens they can say they wanted it.

[oldypigeonpopper]

Just now, Mice! said:

Peston has just said its likely another full lockdown will come and I wouldn't be surprised,  Starmer saying it is easy because Labour don't have to fund it and when it happens they can say they wanted it.

Hello, Typical Labour, !!!!!

[grrclark]

2 hours ago, Retsdon said:

Sorry, I didn't mean to stir up a row, but I really, genuinely, fear that this government is doing terrible damage to the British political system. It's not the policies (although I'm not too keen on them) it's the serial and brazen dishonesty and unaccountability, which is on a scale far surpassing even Blair's government (who probably started the rot). As for Starmer and Corbyn, well, they're not in government, but if they were I'd have exactly the same viewpoint if they and their ministers cynically lied to the extent that this government does. And that's the thing. If this serial dishonesty in political life is going to be crimped it will need ordinary people to call out their OWN side as well. When you give Johnson and Gove a free pass when they lie it's no different to an Argentinian supporter praising the 'hand of God'. But I don't know, maybe that's how people just are in Britain now. It's a dangerous road to go down though. Without a common, across the board standard of acceptable morality and behaviour we're straight into jungle law. And it's not such a big step.

As for Clarkson, he's funny. But he's slick too. Take this -

According to the internet, if you have anything at all, you should definitely get into your car and drive to Swindon, or Redcar, where recently trained civilians in white coats will tell you after a day, or two, or three, whether you must stay at home — or you should simply stay at home.

Instead, because I know everything on the internet and social media is always wrong, I used an actual doctor and an actual laboratory, ...

Fine, but perhaps more accurate would have been , 'because I'm rich and can afford it, I didn't have to drive around looking for some badly run test centre in the the middle of nowhere  and then queue  for ages like other poor s*ds have to do. Instead I could pay to see a real doctor straight away and get an instant fast-track test done'.  But of course, the bare facts lack the humorous edge for which he gets paid very well. I've got about 3 of Clarkson's books on my bookshelf and I really enjoy his writing. But 'truth' isn't really what he's about.... Hmm...

 

I agree with the sentiment in your post.  There is far too much unthinking tribalism and it is a very real problem.  So is the level of whataboutery, it matters not a bit what Starmer or Corbyn might have done, they’re not PM. 

I don’t really understand why free thinking people should be so quick to robustly defend people they have no connection with other than sharing a party political alliance.  Even if you are broadly a BoJo fan you must still be capable of recognising and acknowledging when he gets it wrong.

I am dismayed at so many thing in the BoJo government and I was a member of the party.  Most of all I am dismayed at the fundamental lack of honesty and sincerity.

[Scully]

13 hours ago, Retsdon said:

Sorry, I didn't mean to stir up a row, but I really, genuinely, fear that this government is doing terrible damage to the British political system. It's not the policies (although I'm not too keen on them) it's the serial and brazen dishonesty and unaccountability, which is on a scale far surpassing even Blair's government (who probably started the rot). As for Starmer and Corbyn, well, they're not in government, but if they were I'd have exactly the same viewpoint if they and their ministers cynically lied to the extent that this government does. And that's the thing. If this serial dishonesty in political life is going to be crimped it will need ordinary people to call out their OWN side as well. When you give Johnson and Gove a free pass when they lie it's no different to an Argentinian supporter praising the 'hand of God'. But I don't know, maybe that's how people just are in Britain now. It's a dangerous road to go down though. Without a common, across the board standard of acceptable morality and behaviour we're straight into jungle law. And it's not such a big step.

As for Clarkson, he's funny. But he's slick too. Take this -

According to the internet, if you have anything at all, you should definitely get into your car and drive to Swindon, or Redcar, where recently trained civilians in white coats will tell you after a day, or two, or three, whether you must stay at home — or you should simply stay at home.

Instead, because I know everything on the internet and social media is always wrong, I used an actual doctor and an actual laboratory, ...

Fine, but perhaps more accurate would have been , 'because I'm rich and can afford it, I didn't have to drive around looking for some badly run test centre in the the middle of nowhere  and then queue  for ages like other poor s*ds have to do. Instead I could pay to see a real doctor straight away and get an instant fast-track test done'.  But of course, the bare facts lack the humorous edge for which he gets paid very well. I've got about 3 of Clarkson's books on my bookshelf and I really enjoy his writing. But 'truth' isn't really what he's about.... Hmm...

 

I seriously doubt there are any politicians in politics because they feel they want social reform policies which will benefit the general public. Most are in it for personal gain, especially Tories, and Labour politicians are in it because of a generational chip on their shoulders because they despise all Tories and what they stand for, until they then get what they have for themselves, and all is rosy. 
All politicians lie and deceive, it goes with the game and it’s what they do, all of them. 
Regarding Clarkson, he is a journalist, a writer, first and foremost before he is anything else. He likes to write and he likes to be controversial; he says things for dramatic effect and to deliberately controversial, it’s what he does and it has made him extremely wealthy; he calls a spade a spade and it has gained him as many enemies as it has friends. 
But to give you a couple of examples of the hypocrisy of those who dislike him, he was once interviewed on the One Show, as to what his opinion was of some public sector workers who had gone on strike. He said it gave him a rosy glow of being back in the 1970’s, and that they had a right to do so, but then said that as this was the BBC and therefore for the sake of balance, he said they should be taken outside and shot in front of their families. There was outrage! He was hounded by the press, who camped outside his house, harangued at airports by the paparazzi and reporters, some of whom called for the BBC to sack him, and it was even debated in Parliament by those politicians whom regarded it as anything other than a daft comment.

Meanwhile, during Wimbledon, Terry Wogan said that he would like to machine gun all the spectators on Henman Hill! Everyone laughed....good old Terry, what a laugh he is. 
Once, when interviewed on Top Gear by Clarkson as part of the Star in a Reasonably Priced Car slot, Wogan claimed he never brakes for children and that Clarkson was soft for doing so. Again, much laughter, but I wonder what the result would have been if it had been Clarkson who had said it? What do you reckon? 
 

[udderlyoffroad]

10 hours ago, grrclark said:

 So is the level of whataboutery, it matters not a bit what Starmer or Corbyn might have done, they’re not PM. 

It very much does matter.

He is the leader of the opposition.

His job is not to oppose, as some people would have it, but to hold the government to account.

His mantra of "You should have locked down faster and harder" not only invites the 'Captain Hindsight' criticism, but also utterly fails to hold the government to account.

If he were holding the government to account, maybe you might see a more a competent response from them.  You may say that's unlikely, but it wouldn't hurt matters either.  As a bonus, it might make him more electable.

But his current lawyer's strategy of asking 'why didn't you...?' is utterly counterproductive.

He should, in my view, be demanding answers to any of the following:

• When will our freedoms will be restored? 
• Why is the government hell-bent on pursuing lockdowns, despite clear evidence they don't work?
• How, after Boris promised, no further lockdowns without parliamentary scrutiny, can he countenance tier 4, which is a lockdown in all but name?
• Why is the hospitality industry being hung out to dry, despite evidence that the actual rate of transmission in their establishment is low?  Could it be that the temperance movement have undue influence within the various public health bodies?
• What is the strategy for when the virus mutates and the vaccine becomes useless?

As has been pointed out by others, ordinarily you would expect a free press to ask these questions if the leader of the opposition can't or won't, but the absolute shower that are Kuensburg, Peston, Bolton, Burley et al just waste their questions on this abhorrent 'gotcha journalism'.

Oh dear, I appear to be a top my soap box.  Will get off it and go for a lie down.

 

[Yellow Bear]

24 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Why is the hospitality industry being hung out to dry, despite evidence that the actual rate of transmission in their establishment is low? 

On this one I disagree - after the last lockdown some areas went into tier2 and some into tier3, the only major difference was that "hospitality" was open in 2 and closed in 3.   Admittedly cases have risen slowly in the areas that were tier 3, probably due to Xmas shopping in  the main, but the tier 2 metropolitan areas rocketed almost immediately and are still climbing fast.  Whilst some blame the "new strain" IMHO I think it is people extracting the Michael with regards to "distancing"  in the hospitality industry.  If questioned people generally will not admit that they broke the guidelines and got it at the pub, but will blame anything else they can. 

[JohnfromUK]

Its no good 'demanding' answers to questions to which no one in the world can know the answers.  It wastes time and makes the questioner look foolish.

4 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

When will our freedoms will be restored?

When the virus is back in its box.  No one can put a date on that.

4 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Why is the government hell-bent on pursuing lockdowns, despite clear evidence they don't work?

Like the vast majority of other governments worldwide - they realise that the DO work in controlling infections to manageable levels ......... IF they strict enough and are followed.

4 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Why is the hospitality industry being hung out to dry, despite evidence that the actual rate of transmission in their establishment is low?

Of the six people I know who have caught it, 2 did so in a restaurant (asymptomatic staff tested positive), so it is not 'zero'.  There was a large outbreak in Aberdeen traced to a pub gathering.  It is very hard for the industry - but I don't believe it can be operated without a level of risk that is too high - especially with a more infectiious strain now in widespread circulation.

4 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

What is the strategy for when the virus mutates and the vaccine becomes useless?

Apparently - there is a good likelihood that the vaccine can be updated (as flu vaccines are) relatively easily.  I am not aware of any known other viable strategy anywhere.  Hopefully there will not be a mutation that negates the vaccine soon.

4 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Oh dear, I appear to be a top my soap box.  Will get off it and go for a lie down.

Unfortunately - this is all 'new ground'.  There is no 'proven established way' of preventing this virus ........ but by controlling it (which is what they are trying to do) then at least people who do get it badly get a chance of medical/hospital care should it be needed - and those who need hospital care for other (i.e. non Covid) reasons can also access it.  The whole world has a very similar problem - and no individual solution has been hugely successful - though some countries with VERY strict rules (S Korea, China etc.) have done apparently better than most - as have countries with very strict border controls like NZ.   It does appear at present that the NHS is rapidly getting very close to being swamped - and further restrictions are intended to reduce that risk.

[grrclark]

6 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

It very much does matter.

He is the leader of the opposition.

His job is not to oppose, as some people would have it, but to hold the government to account.

His mantra of "You should have locked down faster and harder" not only invites the 'Captain Hindsight' criticism, but also utterly fails to hold the government to account.

If he were holding the government to account, maybe you might see a more a competent response from them.  You may say that's unlikely, but it wouldn't hurt matters either.  As a bonus, it might make him more electable.

But his current lawyer's strategy of asking 'why didn't you...?' is utterly counterproductive.

He should, in my view, be demanding answers to any of the following:

• When will our freedoms will be restored? 
• Why is the government hell-bent on pursuing lockdowns, despite clear evidence they don't work?
• How, after Boris promised, no further lockdowns without parliamentary scrutiny, can he countenance tier 4, which is a lockdown in all but name?
• Why is the hospitality industry being hung out to dry, despite evidence that the actual rate of transmission in their establishment is low?  Could it be that the temperance movement have undue influence within the various public health bodies?
• What is the strategy for when the virus mutates and the vaccine becomes useless?

As has been pointed out by others, ordinarily you would expect a free press to ask these questions if the leader of the opposition can't or won't, but the absolute shower that are Kuensburg, Peston, Bolton, Burley et al just waste their questions on this abhorrent 'gotcha journalism'.

Oh dear, I appear to be a top my soap box.  Will get off it and go for a lie down.

 

In respect to what Starmer does as LoO i agree with your post.

What I think is daft is people saying what would Starmer or Corbyn done if the were PM?  They’re not though so it’s just a speculative guess.

Holding the PM to account and holding the LoO to account for what they do (or dont) in their respective positions is fine, but the speculation of what they might have done is daft and pointless.

A good rant does you good, hope you feel better for it

[JohnfromUK]

7 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

What is the strategy for when the virus mutates and the vaccine becomes useless?

Apparently the vaccine can be tweaked quickly (probably!)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9111573/Scientists-tweak-Covid-vaccines-target-new-mutant-strains-DAYS-experts-claim.html

 

[udderlyoffroad]

1 hour ago, grrclark said:

Holding the PM to account and holding the LoO to account for what they do (or dont) in their respective positions is fine, but the speculation of what they might have done is daft and pointless.

We're just gonna have to agree to agree on this one, I too consider it an exercise in futility.

I speculate that Starmer would be as bad if not worse than Boris.  He occasionally hears from opposing views, but they then get shouted down by the Chris Whittys and Neil Fergusons of this world with their BS-graphs.  Doubt Starmer's inner circle would countenance any dissent.

But, again, me or anyone else speculating is one step removed from outright onanism...Me wanting Starmer to do his damn job properly I think is my right as Taxpayer.  Same applies to Boris.

 

2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

Its no good 'demanding' answers to questions to which no one in the world can know the answers.

I disagree that they can't know the answer.  They took our freedoms away (seemingly with public support), they damn well better have a plan to give them back.  An exit strategy, if you must.  I'm not asking them to commit to a hard project plan with fixed milestones, more SMART targets.

 

2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

When the virus is back in its box.  No one can put a date on that.

It's an airborne virus.  It's not going back in its box.  Learning to live with it is the only option.

 

2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

Like the vast majority of other governments worldwide - they realise that the DO work in controlling infections to manageable levels Realise that nobody has the stones to admit they don't work......... IF they strict enough and are followed. 

If ever stricter lockdowns worked, those places with the strictest would be lockdown free by now.  Which they demonstrably aren't.

 

3 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

The whole world has a very similar problem - and no individual solution has been hugely successful - though some countries with VERY strict rules (S Korea, China etc.) have done apparently better than most

Oh dear, if you are seriously believing the Chinese Communist Party's figures, I've got a bridge to sell you.

There are some lessons to be learnt from S. Korea, in that they actually contained a pandemic previously and as a result have massive rapid testing facilities.  But those lessons needed to be learnt circa 2018.

 

3 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

as have countries with very strict border controls like NZ. 

The Venn Diagram of those people lauding Jacinda Ardern's response to COVID, and those screaming 'racist' at the top of their lungs if the Boris tried to implement an immigration policy a even 1/12th as strict as New Zealand's, would be a circle.

 

3 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

It does appear at present that the NHS is rapidly getting very close to being swamped - and further restrictions are intended to reduce that risk.

It gets swamped every year, COVID or not.  Further restrictions *might* decrease the COVID death toll, possibly.  But it'll definitely increase the preventable cancer and suicide body count.

 

[JohnfromUK]

4 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Oh dear, if you are seriously believing the Chinese Communist Party's figures, I've got a bridge to sell you.

I don't believe the vast majority of their Covid 'story' ........... but I also think it is pretty certain they don't have a major problem now - as it would be picked up and publicised - even in China.

7 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

t gets swamped every year, COVID or not.

From all I hear, things are MUCH worse this year.

8 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

I disagree that they can't know the answer. 

We will have to agree to disagree on that one!  I don't believe that any politician, scientist, or any other person can clearly know what is going to happen with this virus/pandemic; there are just too many unknowns.

[Dave-G]

Dare I risk another roasting by suggesting the ''mutated" virus has been upgraded refined to get a quicker result for anyone wishing to demonstrate they can lower the defences of a country with a 'better' one without blowing it up? 

 

Hmm, best not. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Tin foil alert!

[Rewulf]

On 02/01/2021 at 21:24, Retsdon said:

That's because he deserves to be bashed. IMHO the biggest threat to Britain isn't Brexit; it isn't Covid; it isn't immigration  - it's the breakdown of trust between government and governed. That trust is what underpins a western democracy. It's not possible to have government by consent without it.  Undermine it enough, and history shows that eventually there'll either be a breakdown of the institutions and functioning of the state, or else the state will morph into a police state (if people don't consent then they'll have to be forced). 

Relax !
Sit back and enjoy your illegal alcohol , in your gated secure compound, in your monarchic feudal police state.
For a little light relief , switch the TV on and watch a beheading or something....

[Scully]

15 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Relax !
Sit back and enjoy your illegal alcohol , in your gated secure compound, in your monarchic feudal police state.
For a little light relief , switch the TV on and watch a beheading or something....

👍

[Agriv8]

Enjoyed that from clarkson I wander if that was refined or improved before the final cut. His writing style is razor sharp but easily read he started his career as a newspaper hack so had a good few years practicing.

he also likes his shooting and field sports IIRC.

read a few of his books.

regards Agriv8 

[Mice!]

On 04/01/2021 at 11:08, udderlyoffroad said:

It very much does matter.

He is the leader of the opposition.

His job is not to oppose, as some people would have it, but to hold the government to account.

His mantra of "You should have locked down faster and harder" not only invites the 'Captain Hindsight' criticism, but also utterly fails to hold the government to account.

If he were holding the government to account, maybe you might see a more a competent response from them.  You may say that's unlikely, but it wouldn't hurt matters either.  As a bonus, it might make him more electable.

But his current lawyer's strategy of asking 'why didn't you...?' is utterly counterproductive.

He should, in my view, be demanding answers to any of the following:

I read to that point and thought yes sure

On 04/01/2021 at 11:08, udderlyoffroad said:

• When will our freedoms will be restored? 
• Why is the government hell-bent on pursuing lockdowns, despite clear evidence they don't work?
• How, after Boris promised, no further lockdowns without parliamentary scrutiny, can he countenance tier 4, which is a lockdown in all but name?
• Why is the hospitality industry being hung out to dry, despite evidence that the actual rate of transmission in their establishment is low?  Could it be that the temperance movement have undue influence within the various public health bodies?
• What is the strategy for when the virus mutates and the vaccine becomes useless?

But then this lot?? London and the South east were allowed before xmas to stay in tier 2, same in Liverpool and strangely enough the cases in these places have rocketed,  because people are mixing, shopping, eating out, the pictures of people shoulder to shoulder were unreal. 

Lockdowns don't work except they bring the rates down and stop the spread, schools shut and work from home if you can, do like last time the lockdown will work, if people actually do as asked. 

Anyway got to go get ready for work,  but the roads should be quiet. 

[udderlyoffroad]

2 hours ago, Mice! said:

But then this lot??

Yes my wish list/wet dream/call it what you will, of what I'd ask if I were given 15mins with a senior cabinet minister or the PM

2 hours ago, Mice! said:

London and the South east were allowed before xmas to stay in tier 2, same in Liverpool and strangely enough the cases in these places have rocketed,  because...

Stop right there.  Correlation != Causation  Anything that follows after the word because is your own take on it.

Or it could be because it's winter?  Or because London is soo hideously densely populated.  Or, bizarrely because the availability of testing in the capital is better.    

Anecdotally, loads of people in the capital in the capital are being tested to allow them to fly to places.  The London borough of Dubai is apparently stuffed full of Brits with money escaping the increasingly despotic and nonsensical measures here.  Same goes, up until a couple of weeks ago, for Swiss ski resorts.

Incidentally, cases in higher tier areas have 'rocketed' too, always assuming you don't take the government data with kilo-sack-size pinches of salt.

Doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results is madness.  Our government and healthcare system is utterly, truly, mad.

[JDog]

5 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Relax !
Sit back and enjoy your illegal alcohol , in your gated secure compound, in your monarchic feudal police state.
For a little light relief , switch the TV on and watch a beheading or something....

Very good.

[Retsdon]

5 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Relax !
Sit back and enjoy your illegal alcohol , in your gated secure compound, in your monarchic feudal police state.
For a little light relief , switch the TV on and watch a beheading or something....

At least I'm allowed out of my house! 😂 - because for all its faults the Saudi government has largely got on top of Covid. When I came to the UK in June both countries had roughly the same number of cases. And yet today Saudi registered 104 new ones and 9 deaths whereas after Boris's world-beating efforts  - how many was it today? Oh look!  Another record broken...a mere 60,916 new infections and 830 dead....

Face it, Boris and his government are worse than useless. Even a monarchic feudal police state like Saudi Arabia is running rings around Britain these days.

Don't you find that a bit humiliating? Because I do, even if you don't.

[Mice!]

57 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Incidentally, cases in higher tier areas have 'rocketed' too, always assuming you don't take the government data with kilo-sack-size pinches of salt.

Have they? Cases have come down in most of Lancashire except for the hotspots where the rules must be being ignored. There is a real East West divide.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/latest-lancashire-coronavirus-cases-blackburn-19568221.amp

 

You could shop and eat out in London and Liverpool and shock horror the number of cases has gone up.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cityam.com/coronavirus-worst-affected-london-boroughs/amp/

https://liverpool.gov.uk/covidcases

I except that London is a massive area with a lot of people but

Liverpool was around 3000 cases with the age group being a lot younger than you think, Lancashire which has been in tier 3 then 4 was 900 daily cases, with the majority in one area.

still think the tier system doesn't work or that a lockdown isn't needed?

[Scully]

9 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

At least I'm allowed out of my house! 😂 - because for all its faults the Saudi government has largely got on top of Covid. When I came to the UK in June both countries had roughly the same number of cases. And yet today Saudi registered 104 new ones and 9 deaths whereas after Boris's world-beating efforts  - how many was it today? Oh look!  Another record broken...a mere 60,916 new infections and 830 dead....

Face it, Boris and his government are worse than useless. Even a monarchic feudal police state like Saudi Arabia is running rings around Britain these days.

Don't you find that a bit humiliating? Because I do, even if you don't.

But the thing is, even after all you’ve claimed above, none of it stopped you coming to the UK in June, where, despite what you say above, we are also allowed out of our houses, and what’s more, I know where I’d rather be living. 🙂

Your posts increasingly come across as someone who is quite unhappy and embittered for some reason. Why is that?