Calibre question.

[samboy]

Hi gang.

               What is the smallest calibre i could use for muntjac and foxes. The land ls only about 8 acres so i wouldn't want anything too powerful.

                Would be used for rabbits too. At the moment i'm using a CZ .22 for rabbits and squirrels.

                                                                                                                                            Thanks all               

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[strimmer_13]

243 I think 

[old'un]

not an expert on rifles but I think the minimum calibre you can use on CWD and Muntjac is .220 (centrefire) and a minimum muzzle energy of 1,000ft lbs and a minimum bullet weight of 50 grains.

Someone will be along to correct me if I am wrong.

Edit to add…...do you have an open ticket?

Edited February 5, 2021 by old'un

[Lloyd90]

3 minutes ago, old'un said:

not an expert on rifles but I think the minimum calibre you can use on CWD and Muntjac is .220 (centrefire) and a minimum muzzle energy of 1,000ft lbs and a minimum bullet weight of 50 grains.

Someone will be along to correct me if I am wrong.

Yea that is my belief also 👍🏻 I wouldn’t want to use one to shoot rabbits though. 

[sharpeshooter60]

its a 22.250

1 minute ago, sharpeshooter60 said:

its a 22.250

and the land must have back stop,and proof they are damageing[thats notts anyway]

[Walker570]

Most of the 22 centrefires.  223 Rem would work fine but keep your other rifle for rabbits, so you will need two rifles unless you want to blow the rabbits to bits.

On eight acres you will probably need a high seat to give a safe angle of fire.  Again if you have an open ticket , not a problem. If not then you need to get the area cleared by your FEO which could be difficult.  That is where a couple of high seats comes in because it shows you are aware of angles of fire etc. 

[sharpeshooter60]

1 minute ago, Walker570 said:

Most of the 22 centrefires.  223 Rem would work fine but keep your other rifle for rabbits, so you will need two rifles unless you want to blow the rabbits to bits.

On eight acres you will probably need a high seat to give a safe angle of fire.  Again if you have an open ticket , not a problem. If not then you need to get the area cleared by your FEO which could be difficult.  That is where a couple of high seats comes in because it shows you are aware of angles of fire etc. 

spot on mate

[Lloyd90]

9 minutes ago, sharpeshooter60 said:

its a 22.250

and the land must have back stop,and proof they are damageing[thats notts anyway]

220 is noted as the minimum, although in reality this will cover 222, 223 and 22-250. 
 

As long as the minimum bullet weight and power criteria are also met. 

[Walker570]

add the brilliant 22 Bench Rest to that list.

[bornfree]

I would keep the 22lr for rabbits and get a 223

[samboy]

2 hours ago, old'un said:

not an expert on rifles but I think the minimum calibre you can use on CWD and Muntjac is .220 (centrefire) and a minimum muzzle energy of 1,000ft lbs and a minimum bullet weight of 50 grains.

Someone will be along to correct me if I am wrong.

Edit to add…...do you have an open ticket?

Yes i have an open ticket.

[39TDS]

If you have an open ticket for a rimfire does it automatically lead to an open ticket if you add a centrefire.

[Rewulf]

9 minutes ago, 39TDS said:

If you have an open ticket for a rimfire does it automatically lead to an open ticket if you add a centrefire.

No, and on that small piece of land (depending on its geography) it may not be cleared for a centrefire.

And if it's not,  it needs clearing before you can even apply, then we get onto experience of calibre , mentoring etc.

Depends on the force area , lie of the land , and attitude of the FEO/FLM .

Ive got a 100 acre permission,  they wouldn't clear it for anything bigger than HMR ,I got round it in the end when they opened my .223 up, but asking for a centrfire to be opened on first grant is unlikely.

[39TDS]

I thought that was the case. Wasn't trying to be a smart Alec, just trying to give the OP a heads up. 👍

[Rewulf]

14 hours ago, 39TDS said:

I thought that was the case. Wasn't trying to be a smart Alec, just trying to give the OP a heads up. 👍

[old man]

21 hours ago, samboy said:

Hi gang.

               What is the smallest calibre i could use for muntjac and foxes. The land ls only about 8 acres so i wouldn't want anything too powerful.

                Would be used for rabbits too. At the moment i'm using a CZ .22 for rabbits and squirrels.

                                                                                                                                            Thanks all               

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

IMHO for starters at 8 acres you need to get off the ground even with a 22lr.

[walshie]

20 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

220 is noted as the minimum, although in reality this will cover 222, 223 and 22-250. 
 

As long as the minimum bullet weight and power criteria are also met. 

This.

[oowee]

1 hour ago, old man said:

IMHO for starters at 8 acres you need to get off the ground even with a 22lr.

Generaly I would not disagree but a lot will depend on need. If the OP has trees to defend then the 'need' maybe demonstrated as far greater than for stalking purposes. I had my first centrefire a .243 cleared on 4 acres for the same purpose. 

[243deer]

lots of good info above.

High seats creating a good backstop as in the ground is language that feo's understand.

No reason at all why 8 acres cannot be passed, even if flat, my first perm was pretty much flat all over, one of the fields is even called 8 acres.

I always think best to stick to popular calibres when buying your first deer rifle as easier to re-sell once you want to upgrade and also easier for feo's to understand, bless them.

A bigger calibre with a slower bullet will do less meat damage than a smaller calibre with a frangible bullet so I would say ask for a .243. With a 100gr soft point bullet it is very kind to the meat. Foxes do not like these much either. If you zero this at 1 inch over at 100 you will be point and shoot out to 200, unlikely you will get a longer shot on 8 acres. 

Always worth having a good reference so you can find legalities and most everything else deer related here  http://www.thedeerinitiative.co.uk/best_practice/legislation_health_and_safety_and_welfare.php

Personally I do not think you are on the right lines when you state I do not want anything too powerful. Deer are tough animals and deserve our respect in so much as we should use a suitable tool to cull them. Anything powerful enough for deer will be expensive to run on rabbits and will cause a lot of meat damage. 

Your .22 is perfectly adequate for rabbits on 8 acres. Shoot from a high seat and they do not even realise you are there so just keep moving the high seat to different locations. Be careful you do not shoot them out.

 

[Walker570]

Put together an application letter detailing just where you will position high seats and for what reason also that you have noted the soil structure etc etc . Put a bit of thought into it pointing out all local public access footpaths even on your neighbouring ground.  Make it absolutely clear that you have responsibly thought the whole problem through.  A friend had his 150 acre farm turned down for a 243Win.  I put thogether a letter of support and a map showing all the items mentioned above and that there was seven high seats situated on the ground not only which gave safe angles of shot but also gave a clear view of all footpaths across the ground.  The application was allowed.

Had another friend who had a plot very close to a City boundary and a motorway. Did the same and his application went straight through.

[Windswept]

Does this not depend on your local licensing dept? I have my own 10 acre wood and that was cleared for anything. I did mention the use of high seats but not exact positions.

 

 

[Fisheruk]

On 05/02/2021 at 17:50, samboy said:

Hi gang.

               What is the smallest calibre i could use for muntjac and foxes. The land ls only about 8 acres so i wouldn't want anything too powerful.

                Would be used for rabbits too. At the moment i'm using a CZ .22 for rabbits and squirrels.

                                                                                                                                            Thanks all              

.223

[old man]

19 hours ago, oowee said:

Generaly I would not disagree but a lot will depend on need. If the OP has trees to defend then the 'need' maybe demonstrated as far greater than for stalking purposes. I had my first centrefire a .243 cleared on 4 acres for the same purpose. 

Not wishing to be an old ***.

Sorry but do not really understand your point about need for defending trees? The first need is a backstop to keep your *** safe?

Surely for every shot the first consideration is about a safe backstop, maybe difficult on 8 acres without height?

As we all know even a .22 lr will travel for a mile any CF much further. A military range was closed for many months due to an incident rumoured to be a shot over the butts going into a village beyond. (Not verified but range use severely altered due to incident)

Mr Walker has it nailed!

[oowee]

1 hour ago, old man said:

Not wishing to be an old ***.

Sorry but do not really understand your point about need for defending trees? The first need is a backstop to keep your *** safe?

Surely for every shot the first consideration is about a safe backstop, maybe difficult on 8 acres without height?

As we all know even a .22 lr will travel for a mile any CF much further. A military range was closed for many months due to an incident rumoured to be a shot over the butts going into a village beyond. (Not verified but range use severely altered due to incident)

Mr Walker has it nailed!

🤣 simply the reason to acquire.  The rest goes without saying. 

[Walker570]

20 hours ago, Windswept said:

Does this not depend on your local licensing dept? I have my own 10 acre wood and that was cleared for anything. I did mention the use of high seats but not exact positions.

 

 

I was always told, that in a fight then attempt to get in the first decisive blow. Most but not all Licensing Departments are looking for a way to say NO. Therefore by doing your homework planning and putting together the suggestions I made above go a long way to stopping them in their tracks 99% of the time.

PLUS..and I am not deriding this gentlemans enquiry at all. It also draws attention to detail and how to safely shoot on your ground as a completely newcomer to the situation who may not have fully thought it through.

Bear in mind the 22RF is the most dangerous round in the world.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Walker570