Pointing problem

[henry d]

My sister has had some major garden work done including a retaining wall along her path but the pointing is breaking off and is very crumbly.

The slabs have also been the same, I can't resize but will post a few more pictures to show it fully. Some of it is falling as I was sweeping and more will be falling out I am sure.

Any ideas, a mix problem possibly?

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[Mice!]

3 minutes ago, henry d said:

My sister has had some major garden work done including a retaining wall along her path but the pointing is breaking off and is very crumbly.

The slabs have also been the same, I can't resize but will post a few more pictures to show it fully. Some of it is falling as I was sweeping and more will be falling out I am sure.

Any ideas, a mix problem possibly?

.

.

Looks like frost/ice damage.

Of you screenshot your pictures you can then post more.

[eggy74]

as above, looks like it may have been done when the temp was too cold, needs to be above 4 degrees

 

[mpmilo]

Definitely looks like frost damage, all down to temp. Should be 3c and rising before any mortar work is undertaken, also covered with hessian ( how long depends on temp day and night ) We have had some work covered for 6- 10 days in bad winters. Any fresh mortar left exposed will freeze, it looks fine all the time its frozen,then thaw expand and flake off.

[JKD]

As above, it definitely looks like frost damage, but,,,,

The pointing to the stonework looks like a smear over the bedding mortar. This can be an OK method, if the over-pointing is at least 20-25mm deep. Better to neaten up the bed joint as a finished pointed article.

The paving, well,,,, it looks like a dry sharp sand mix [possibly a ready-to-use brush in type like EASY Joint?] has been used, and brushed in and then not compacted with a trowel or pointing tool. A dry mix will just let water in and the frost gets in and,,,, 😏

Pointing to any paving should be wet enough to use but not too wet to drop off the pointing trowel, or to smear every surface you're pointing,,,, this includes brickwork etc.

Sorry to say, but it looks like a rake-out and re-pointing job 😕

[strimmer_13]

I enjoy pointing when I'm not paid for it, very therapeutic. 

Btw I'm not offering but at least it's a alright job to do 

[ditchman]

1 hour ago, Mice! said:

Looks like frost/ice damage.

Of you screenshot your pictures you can then post more.

as above..............

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Blimey Henry that will be a pain to re do!

[WalkedUp]

2 hours ago, henry d said:

 

My sister has had some major garden work done including a retaining wall

 

1. When was the work done?

2. What attempts did they may to relieve the hydrostatic pressure and protect the masonry from damp? 

[Ultrastu]

I will add  ,that it also looks very light on cement .ie too much sand (probably soft  pit sand ) .

And again probably frost damage too .

[12gauge82]

As said by JKD it looks from the photos that the stone walls weren't raked out deep enough and just a veneer of cement put over the top. Hard to tell from the photos though. 

[henry d]

1 hour ago, WalkedUp said:

1. When was the work done?

2. What attempts did they may to relieve the hydrostatic pressure and protect the masonry from damp? 

November apparently, no idea?

2 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Blimey Henry that will be a pain to re do!

Certainly will be, but although she is my sister, I ain't doing it, for that and a lot of other work they paid five figures so they are getting them to come back.

53 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

I will add  ,that it also looks very light on cement .ie too much sand (probably soft  pit sand )

That was my first thought along with what @JKD said.

Many thanks everyone!

[ShootingEgg]

Definitely time to call them back and to do the job properly. 

[JKD]

1 hour ago, henry d said:

November apparently, no idea?

Certainly will be, but although she is my sister, I ain't doing it, for that and a lot of other work they paid five figures so they are getting them to come back.

That was my first thought along with what @JKD said.

Many thanks everyone!

Well I'm glad you said that, and I sincerely hope that they do a better job,,,, or a suitable refund 👍

Good luck 😉

[daisyrob1]

5 hours ago, henry d said:

My sister has had some major garden work done including a retaining wall along her path but the pointing is breaking off and is very crumbly.

The slabs have also been the same, I can't resize but will post a few more pictures to show it fully. Some of it is falling as I was sweeping and more will be falling out I am sure.

Any ideas, a mix problem possibly?

.

.

That's poor workmanship, wall and slabs need grinding back 25mm wall rejointed with a 4 to 1 sand cement mix. slabs I don't bother using sand/cement anymore use a jointing compound 'Jointit' very good  about £35-£40 for a 20kg tub covers 6 to 8 Square meters depending on joint width. 

[WalkedUp]

Wall needs rebuilding with weep holes to allow it to drain. The wet is always going to blow the sodden pointing in a freeze thaw cycle otherwise. The mortar looks very weak, repointing will fix a symptom. 

[Ultrastu]

1 hour ago, ShootingEgg said:

Definitely time to call them back and to do the job properly. 

Would you trust that they can do it correctly .? 

From what they have done so far looks like they don't know their    a..... From their elbow .

I'd ask for them to supply a different tradesman to come and repair it at their cost or a refund for the time and materials so you can find somebody else to do it. 

[bruno22rf]

Might be an idea to add a little Lime to the morter - our house was built with such morter and it's stronger than the bricks.

[WalkedUp]

12 minutes ago, bruno22rf said:

Might be an idea to add a little Lime to the morter - our house was built with such morter and it's stronger than the bricks.

Lime mortar is typically soft and strong. The issue if the mortar is too hard, ie cement mortar on handmade bricks, is that the brickwork or stone will spall. You see it all the time after repointing by unskilled workers. 

[henry d]

15 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

Wall needs rebuilding with weep holes to allow it to drain. The wet is always going to blow the sodden pointing in a freeze thaw cycle otherwise. The mortar looks very weak, repointing will fix a symptom. 

The drainage runs down both walls and the garden has several new drains put in it that exit the wall adjoining the pavement.

They are going to get them back to have a look and explain what they are going to do to sort it out. Many thanks for the input

[WalkedUp]

11 hours ago, henry d said:

The drainage runs down both walls and the garden has several new drains put in it that exit the wall adjoining the pavement.

Perfect, that makes it a much easier job to fix 👍

[blackbird]

12 hours ago, henry d said:

The drainage runs down both walls and the garden has several new drains put in it that exit the wall adjoining the pavement.

They are going to get them back to have a look and explain what they are going to do to sort it out. Many thanks for the input

The beast from the east strikes again.

Edited February 22, 2021 by blackbird

[tonker]

Whenever I do any pointing I always rake out the joints twice as deep as they are wide. Iv'e never had any trouble  and it's a good rule of thumb ( been building 52 yrs) so have done a bit in my time.