wymberley Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 14 hours ago, 8 shot said: Pray tell what is a decent Pigeon Load. A decent cartridge for any quarry species is the Gun's preferred choice, which remains comfortable in repeated use, delivers sufficient individual pellet energy and enough of them on average in order to ensure that it is reasonable to expect that on every accurately placed shot sufficient pellet strikes will be made to ensure a clean kill at a pre-determined maximum range and is economically viable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 On 23/03/2021 at 08:55, wymberley said: There's not a decent pigeon load among that lot So ... you've written them all off .... against which of the criteria do they fall down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 17 minutes ago, Smokersmith said: So ... you've written them all off .... against which of the criteria do they fall down? You don't mention which criteria, but if you're referring to my definition I would imagine that the first one mentioned is what you're looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 OK ... so 10 types of shell written off through discomfort? 28g being OK, but 29g being too much ... ? Apologies for poking a bit on this, but when 10 types of cartridge that have accounted for '000's of thousands of dead pigeons, partridges and corvids etc are written off, one can't help but ask! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 48 minutes ago, Smokersmith said: OK ... so 10 types of shell written off through discomfort? 28g being OK, but 29g being too much ... ? Apologies for poking a bit on this, but when 10 types of cartridge that have accounted for '000's of thousands of dead pigeons, partridges and corvids etc are written off, one can't help but ask! No apology required. All any of us can do is offer our own opinion. Each and every one of the cartridges listed will qualify in someone's opinion as being decent. Consequently, it is worth noting that the one criterion that you mentioned is not the first but the second, being preceded by "the Gun's preferred choice". We also now seem to be twixt 'top' and 'decent', two things that aren't the same thing at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 25, 2021 Report Share Posted March 25, 2021 On 23/03/2021 at 21:20, Jim Neal said: I appreciate what they're trying to achieve by doing this test, but the title of "best cartridge" will always be disputed. There are so many variables that it's simply impossible to have a "best" that everyone will find best, for reasons already stated above. Part 2 is out! Just watched that. It would probably pay to keep well clear of Tristram when he loads/closes his gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 25, 2021 Report Share Posted March 25, 2021 Many years ago a friend with a Gun Shop and a Clay pigeon Shoot in Kent decided to test people. He had some unmarked shells loaded by Gamebore with 7 1/2 shot in plastic wads. Half the boxes contained red shells and the other half were blue, but the contents were exactly the same! They were handed out and shooters were asked to use them and report back. All of the shooters reported that the red cased shells were much faster and hit harder than the blue ones! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted March 25, 2021 Report Share Posted March 25, 2021 12 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: the red cased shells were much faster and hit harder than the blue ones Clearly the theory behind the Fiocchi Official Trap Rossa's !!😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted March 25, 2021 Report Share Posted March 25, 2021 1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Many years ago a friend with a Gun Shop and a Clay pigeon Shoot in Kent decided to test people. He had some unmarked shells loaded by Gamebore with 7 1/2 shot in plastic wads. Half the boxes contained red shells and the other half were blue, but the contents were exactly the same! They were handed out and shooters were asked to use them and report back. All of the shooters reported that the red cased shells were much faster and hit harder than the blue ones! Oh. I must get some red ones then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted March 25, 2021 Report Share Posted March 25, 2021 3 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Many years ago a friend with a Gun Shop and a Clay pigeon Shoot in Kent decided to test people. He had some unmarked shells loaded by Gamebore with 7 1/2 shot in plastic wads. Half the boxes contained red shells and the other half were blue, but the contents were exactly the same! They were handed out and shooters were asked to use them and report back. All of the shooters reported that the red cased shells were much faster and hit harder than the blue ones! Red is best in 12b without doubt,nothing else can compete!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted March 25, 2021 Report Share Posted March 25, 2021 5 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Many years ago a friend with a Gun Shop and a Clay pigeon Shoot in Kent decided to test people. He had some unmarked shells loaded by Gamebore with 7 1/2 shot in plastic wads. Half the boxes contained red shells and the other half were blue, but the contents were exactly the same! They were handed out and shooters were asked to use them and report back. All of the shooters reported that the red cased shells were much faster and hit harder than the blue ones! Great story! Thanks for posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted March 25, 2021 Report Share Posted March 25, 2021 Was that not the myth behind the Original Clear Pigeon. Changed to black cases and they were 💩 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 25, 2021 Report Share Posted March 25, 2021 14 minutes ago, 8 shot said: Was that not the myth behind the Original Clear Pigeon. Changed to black cases and they were 💩 But they were! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muncher Posted March 25, 2021 Report Share Posted March 25, 2021 3 hours ago, London Best said: Great story! Thanks for posting. I sent some loads to Birmingham proof house for testing. 20 cartridge in batches of 5. I loaded 15 in one colour and had five a different colour but loaded the same. Strange thing is the 5 different coloured ones were 100fps faster for the exact same load. They ring you with the findings and commented on this difference in speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Neal Posted March 25, 2021 Report Share Posted March 25, 2021 12 hours ago, wymberley said: Just watched that. It would probably pay to keep well clear of Tristram when he loads/closes his gun. Yeah I picked up on that too but didn't want to get too pedantic! Stock to barrels, Tristram, there's a good chap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 26, 2021 Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 12 hours ago, Jim Neal said: Yeah I picked up on that too but didn't want to get too pedantic! Stock to barrels, Tristram, there's a good chap! Worthy of a little concern, perhaps, as this company- Shoot Straight Ltd - offers 'Professional Shooting Tuition'. Let's just hope it was a case of do as I say and not do as I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet11-87 Posted March 26, 2021 Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 well "best cartridge" is a subjective thing really too many variables and it depends on the shooters needs. strangely enough i use eley pigeon hv have got fantastic results for me since they released and the percived recoil is very good given its a fast 32g load downside is only 1 retailer within reasonable driving distance ive always been a strong beliver in respect for the quarry so ive stayed away from the "as cheap as possible" mentality and clay loads for pigeons (not to open that can of worms) but i shoot way more clay pigeons than live ones so in terms of familiarlty with a gun and cart combo, olympic blues are way ahead for me and surely that has to cound for somthing right?. plus they pattern great and being £60 per 1k less is nice as price is getting to be a factor the way theve steadly crept up. i think i am going to give them a try and see if i can kill as cleanly and consistantly as i have been with dedicated pigeon loads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 27, 2021 Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 6 hours ago, Sweet11-87 said: well "best cartridge" is a subjective thing really too many variables and it depends on the shooters needs. strangely enough i use eley pigeon hv have got fantastic results for me since they released and the percived recoil is very good given its a fast 32g load downside is only 1 retailer within reasonable driving distance ive always been a strong beliver in respect for the quarry so ive stayed away from the "as cheap as possible" mentality and clay loads for pigeons (not to open that can of worms) but i shoot way more clay pigeons than live ones so in terms of familiarlty with a gun and cart combo, olympic blues are way ahead for me and surely that has to cound for somthing right?. plus they pattern great and being £60 per 1k less is nice as price is getting to be a factor the way theve steadly crept up. i think i am going to give them a try and see if i can kill as cleanly and consistantly as i have been with dedicated pigeon loads. I presume you've taken the "Top Pigeon Cartridges" title and are now offering opinion on cartridges for clays as you mention "your respect for the quarry" and that Eley Olympic Blues come in various charges and shot sizes although the largest is 7.5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
243deer Posted March 27, 2021 Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 There will be a few folk on here that are good enough shots to notice a difference in cartridges (which they are probably capable of adapting to very quickly) but for most of us mere mortals which pigeon cartridge or choke for that matter is a mute point. If you are an average shot gun shot, as I am, then letting cartridge type or choke get in your head is counter productive. Your energy would be far better focussed on gun mount and swing through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 27, 2021 Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 Sage like advice, that is where the effort should be expended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted March 27, 2021 Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 100% ... ALL of the cartridges mentioned will be better than all of the shots on here ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hitman Posted March 27, 2021 Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 9 hours ago, Sweet11-87 said: well "best cartridge" is a subjective thing really too many variables and it depends on the shooters needs. strangely enough i use eley pigeon hv have got fantastic results for me since they released and the percived recoil is very good given its a fast 32g load downside is only 1 retailer within reasonable driving distance ive always been a strong beliver in respect for the quarry so ive stayed away from the "as cheap as possible" mentality and clay loads for pigeons (not to open that can of worms) but i shoot way more clay pigeons than live ones so in terms of familiarlty with a gun and cart combo, olympic blues are way ahead for me and surely that has to cound for somthing right?. plus they pattern great and being £60 per 1k less is nice as price is getting to be a factor the way theve steadly crept up. i think i am going to give them a try and see if i can kill as cleanly and consistantly as i have been with dedicated pigeon loads. No sure what you mean by “respect for the quarry” steering away from cheap as possible mentality clay cartridges for pigeons? I have shot more pigeons with clay cartridges than any other cartridges. I begin using Winchester trap 100’s, in the 80’s then Eley Olympics . In recent times I have used Primas, trust & Joker cartridges all 28g no 7 or 7.5 - don’t be too quick to dismiss clay loads for pigeons. I have been using a 30g no 6 load recently and I have to say that I prefer the clay loads for decoying. Hitman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 27, 2021 Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 2 hours ago, 243deer said: There will be a few folk on here that are good enough shots to notice a difference in cartridges (which they are probably capable of adapting to very quickly) but for most of us mere mortals which pigeon cartridge or choke for that matter is a mute point. If you are an average shot gun shot, as I am, then letting cartridge type or choke get in your head is counter productive. Your energy would be far better focussed on gun mount and swing through. Yep, but not at all costs. The small amount of effort required to make sure that your cartridge choice is capable and well suited to your needs (without overkill which means excess and usually unnecessary expenditure with no additional benefits) and its performance with a given gun pales into insignificance compared to the confidence obtained from the knowledge that you've got it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 27, 2021 Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 2 hours ago, 243deer said: There will be a few folk on here that are good enough shots to notice a difference in cartridges (which they are probably capable of adapting to very quickly) but for most of us mere mortals which pigeon cartridge or choke for that matter is a mute point. If you are an average shot gun shot, as I am, then letting cartridge type or choke get in your head is counter productive. Your energy would be far better focussed on gun mount and swing through. All of which takes us neatly back to my initial post. Cue smug emoticon. ☺️🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted March 27, 2021 Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 Clever manufacturers marketing / packaging has got some people convinced that there is such a thing as a ‘pigeon’ cartridge or a ‘clay’ cartridge. I am not sure what they think the difference is. A cartridge is a cartridge. I wouldn’t want any of them fired at my backside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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