twenty Posted June 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, ordnance said: How's that he could have being dead after the first shot, with the possibility he was wearing a bomb vest etc they were not going to stop and take his pulse and shoot him again if he still had one. If he was his 20 times and they fired 40 rounds, they they might need some extra training. The inquest stated that he was shot 20 times before he died............The Armed response officers are to give their evidence later this week apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 Can't see a problem it's not like 9mm ammo is expensive. 61/2 quid on ammo, bargain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twenty Posted June 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, oscarsdad said: Why is this even raised as an issue? He needed stopping, if that took 50 rounds and turned him to jelly then that’s fine by me. In the open, maybe........but this was on London bridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 13 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Okay The Brazillian electrician was shot at 13 times and this chap 20 times. The armed Officers require further training. They should have being charged after shooting Brazillian electrician IMO, at least they shot the right person this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 I wasn't discussing the rights and wrongs, but the ability of the armed Officers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormhound Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 19 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Okay The Brazillian electrician was shot at 13 times and this chap 20 times. The armed Officers require further training. Have you ever done this job, been in a similar situation? What qualifies you to make such an asinine comment regarding the need for the officers requiring further training? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 4 minutes ago, Stormhound said: Have you ever done this job, been in a similar situation? What qualifies you to make such an asinine comment regarding the need for the officers requiring further training? I can't tell you. What would you decide was acceptable? Fire 20 rounds and hit the person 75% of the time? Fire 20 rounds and hit the person 50% of the time? Fire 20 rounds and hit the person 25% of the time? If 20 rounds were fired and they all hit the person then I would accept it was a good job well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: I wasn't discussing the rights and wrongs, but the ability of the armed Officers. Shooting the right person is a desirable ability for armed officers. In this case they did a good job the terrorist dead, no civilian's injured by police fire as far as i am aware. Edited June 1, 2021 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rim Fire Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 How do they know it took rounds to kill him he may have been dead after 2or 3 shots but they just made sure so it may not have taken 20 shots to kill him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 1 minute ago, ordnance said: Shooting the right person is a desirable ability for armed officers. In this case they did a good job the terrorist dead, no civilian's injured by police fire as far as i am aware. The armed Officers were given their target, the fact that he was wrongly identified by the intelligence side of things has no bearing after the evnt. Once again too many rounds fired too few hit the intended target. 1 minute ago, Rim Fire said: How do they know it took rounds to kill him he may have been dead after 2or 3 shots but they just made sure so it may not have taken 20 shots to kill him Did all 20 hit the target? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 I have not mentioned Nimrod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 I will chip in for some more if they are short. 4 minutes ago, chilly1981 said: Right some of you need a reality check this is not stalking or range shooting this is life and death of not only you but those around you again you shoot and keep shooting until the threat is no longer of a threat I suggests that those who have never done any form of training for a situation like this and or been in a situation like this then refrain from judging and commenting on something you have no real world idea about. so for example you think the sas lads who did the embassy need more training as the terrorist on the stairs had I belive it was 16 rounds put in him I have heard a story about why he was so completely taken down from a man who claimed he was the second man in. A compelling gemtleman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 Quote The armed Officers were given their target, the fact that he was wrongly identified by the intelligence side of things has no bearing after the event. They not others made the decision to shoot him, and should have being charged IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkAYA Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 Does it state how many officers fired? 20 shots isn't a lot from multiple officers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 1 hour ago, JTaylor91 said: If he can’t put anyone down with .45, then it’s not going to happen with a sub calibre like 9mm. Hence the amount of ammo he will now carry I suppose. 🤷♂️ History has shown time and time again, that 9mm has never been an instantaneous man stopper unless something vital is hit, whether that person is out of their skull on drugs or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 There some right armchair experts on here. Anyone on here had to shoot someone with what they believed to be an explosive vest on, if so I'd like to hear your opinion. 12 minutes ago, ordnance said: They not others made the decision to shoot him, and should have being charged IMO. Totally incorrect, he was shot under operation kratos and although ultimately responsible for pulling the trigger, if they hadn't they'd also be responsible if anything went wrong. I can't think of a worse position to be in other than the poor chap who was shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 1 minute ago, 12gauge82 said: There some right armchair experts on here. Anyone on here had to shoot someone with what they believed to be an explosive vest on, if so I'd like to hear your opinion. no and i’m not stupid enough to put 20 rounds into someone i think is wearing a live bomb unless i want to make a bad job into a bomb blast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 My guess is the officers are trained to empty their mags, and only then assess the situation, no point using three rounds then saying he needs more, the terrorist had already killed. Job well done. 50 minutes ago, chilly1981 said: Right some of you need a reality check this is not stalking or range shooting this is life and death of not only you but those around you again you shoot and keep shooting until the threat is no longer of a threat I suggests that those who have never done any form of training for a situation like this and or been in a situation like this then refrain from judging and commenting on something you have no real world idea about. so for example you think the sas lads who did the embassy need more training as the terrorist on the stairs had I belive it was 16 rounds put in him Well put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 13 minutes ago, clangerman said: no and i’m not stupid enough to put 20 rounds into someone i think is wearing a live bomb unless i want to make a bad job into a bomb blast What would you do, just let him get on with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 Quote 24 minutes ago, ordnance said: They not others made the decision to shoot him, and should have being charged IMO. Totally incorrect, he was shot under operation kratos and although ultimately responsible for pulling the trigger, if they hadn't they'd also be responsible if anything went wrong. I can't think of a worse position to be in other than the poor chap who was shot. You have lost me i posted they made the decision to shoot him, you say totally incorrect and then go on to say they were ultimately responsible for pulling the trigger. So as i said they made the decision to shoot him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangolin Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 (edited) I remember watching the doc about the SAS storming the embassy and Mac said when they first went in the first 2 terrorists got just a couple of pops each but when the terroist tried to escape with the hostages and he had a grenade Horsfall said that terrorist ended up with 27 shots in him. Might just be SOP. If in doubt, flat out. Edited June 1, 2021 by Pangolin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, ordnance said: What would you do, just let him get on with it. called for a double tap head heart shot with the right tool simple enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 The news reported that the man took 20 shots “before he died”. They are probably confusing the fact(?) that he was probably still twitching for that long but may have been dead for the last 18/19 shots. Anyone who has taken a lot of lives (quarry) will know that very few creatures do not twitch for a while after death. It is my guess that humans are no different and do not just slump dead as on the telly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 Just now, clangerman said: called for a double tap head heart shot with the right tool simple enough What if he had a dead mans trigger / switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsdad Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 (edited) Wow, this thread has the most utter nonsense and drivel I have seen on PW for a long time. Keyboard warriors who think they have the foggiest clue about taking a human life to protect others and claim to know better than trained firearms officers who are forced to make split second decisions in the full knowledge that idiots with plenty of time will pick apart their decisions. It’s like the school playground. Edited June 1, 2021 by oscarsdad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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