Battle of the Somme

[steve_b_wales]

On this day 104 years ago, at 0728hrs, started probably the bloodiest 140 days in British Military history (in this I include Commonwealth and Empire forces), with some 420000 total casualties, of which between 50000-60000 were suffered on the 1st day.

The Battle of the Somme.

Lest We Forget.

[enfieldspares]

It was a Sunday. My grandfather was there. First wave. Lieutenant 2nd Battalion K.O.Y.L.I. in charge of a platoon. I still have his Field Message Book from that bloody day. Here he is all nonchalant and again, on the right in the second picture, all got up in his best with boots and spurs, getting married. With his brother-in-law on the left as his best man.

 

[MirokuMK70]

I always think of it on this day. One of my bucket list items is to stand at 07.30 on 1 july at gommecourt salient where the 46th north midland division went over. One of the striking things for me is that though we always think of grim muddy conditions in connection with ww1 - the first day of the somme was a beautiful summer morning and they went over into that hell through waist high summer grass and wildflowers with skylarks singing overhead...

[enfieldspares]

The passage below is from my grandfather's Field Message Book:

From: 2nd Lieut. W A Smith - No 10 Platoon - C Company - 2nd K.O.Y.L.I. - 2nd July 1916
To: Adjutant 2nd K.O.Y.L.I.

I have the honour to bring before your notice the splendid and heroic work carried out by Corporal Dobson of my platoon in action on July 1 1916.

Corporal Dobson organised attacking by bombing the German strong points on our left and if it had not been for the splendid and heroic work done by this gallant N.C.O. we should probably have been surrounded.

He went forward in shirt sleeves and was throwing bombs from 8.30 a.m. until he was unfortunately hit in the back about 5.00 p.m. that evening by a German bomb. He died a few minutes after being hit.

His loss will be felt keenly by all the platoon. He was a capable N.C.O. always cheerful and fearless and always had a cheery word of encouragement for the recruits.

This being my report, I have the honour to be, your obedient servant, W.A Smith 2/Lt. No 10 Platoon 2nd K.O.Y.L.I.

This was my grandfather's Corporal. And, yes, I have visited and seen the grave. A century on he still keeps the faith and holds that ground.

Corporal George Jones DOBSON

Service Number 22673 - KOYLI 2nd Battalion

Date of Death 1 July 1916 Aged 28 years old. 

Buried at Blighty Valley Cemetery Authuille Wood, France.

Edited July 1, 2022 by enfieldspares

[Dave at kelton]

When you grow up in East Lancashire the history of the Pals Battalions and long lists of names on the memorial at Oakhill Park, Accrington haunts you. My grandfather was there in the Royal Artillery……horrific.

[kevin55]

The Sherwood Foresters were badly affected, my great uncle died on 1/7/16

The home address on the war graves site is 2 miles from where most of my family still live, in South Derbyshire

[MirokuMK70]

5 minutes ago, kevin55 said:

The Sherwood Foresters were badly affected, my great uncle died on 1/7/16

The home address on the war graves site is 2 miles from where most of my family still live, in South Derbyshire

That would have been at gommecourt... the foresters were part of the 46th division. The attack there was purely a diversion and the 46th suffered terrible casualties for no real reason as the commander of the division continued feeding troops into the attack in the mistaken belief that they were reaching the german lines...

[kevin55]

9 minutes ago, MirokuMK70 said:

That would have been at gommecourt... the foresters were part of the 46th division. The attack there was purely a diversion and the 46th suffered terrible casualties for no real reason as the commander of the division continued feeding troops into the attack in the mistaken belief that they were reaching the german lines...

Yes at Gommecourt

Wasn't a senior office reprimanded for "lack of fighting spirit?

[Dekers]

Terrible War all round, aren't all wars!!!!

My grandfather spent virtually all WW1 at Ypres/Passchendaele and somehow survived, he was also in WW2 as an Arms instructor, UK based on the whole!

Died in his late 80's and would never talk about the wars!!!

Some very brave people back then!!!!

 

[Scully]

My Grandad was there, in the Royal Artillery. He didn’t speak much of it. 

[MirokuMK70]

38 minutes ago, kevin55 said:

Yes at Gommecourt

Wasn't a senior office reprimanded for "lack of fighting spirit?

I believe the commanding general was sacked and the 46th rather unfairly viewed as a "duff" division... a reputation that followed them until they took the Riqueval bridge over the St Quentin canal in september 1918...

[old'un]

has been said, a terrible war as is any war, must have been hell, remember my granddad saying grown men were wetting them selves with fear.

when I was doing some research on my family history and my grandparents involvement in the 1ww, I found this site really interesting and informative, might help others doing the same....https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/

My Granddad George

 

Edited July 2, 2022 by old'un

[kevin55]

31 minutes ago, MirokuMK70 said:

I believe the commanding general was sacked and the 46th rather unfairly viewed as a "duff" division... a reputation that followed them until they took the Riqueval bridge over the St Quentin canal in september 1918...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lack-Offensive-Spirit-Division-Gommecourt/dp/0955811902 

[Westward]

13 hours ago, MirokuMK70 said:

I always think of it on this day. One of my bucket list items is to stand at 07.30 on 1 july at gommecourt salient where the 46th north midland division went over. One of the striking things for me is that though we always think of grim muddy conditions in connection with ww1 - the first day of the somme was a beautiful summer morning and they went over into that hell through waist high summer grass and wildflowers with skylarks singing overhead...

My grandfather was was a rifleman in the 1/12 battalion (The Rangers) of the 56th (London) division at Gommecourt too but wasn't there for the attack. Sadly he was killed by shellfire a couple of weeks earlier whilst preparing forward trenches.

A few years back I travelled with my 3 sons to visit his grave in the CWGC cemetery in Doullens, France. It was an incredibly emotional experience that affected us all.

[Dougy]

3 hours ago, kevin55 said:

The Sherwood Foresters were badly affected, my great uncle died on 1/7/16

The home address on the war graves site is 2 miles from where most of my family still live, in South Derbyshire

My Grandad was in that regiment, injured in 1917 i think, that ended his time in the service and like many never talked about anything that went on. 

He was one of the luckier ones. 

 

Yet we still have not learnt any lessons from any of the conflicts. 

[enfieldspares]

The man that ran a range I shot over, his grandfather was at Gallipoli, and my friend said that having been told at school about the slaughter asked his grandfather what his was like. "It was easy, lad. For us. We got up, had breakfast and played football on the beach all day. I was a Royal Marine. There to protect the ships. But we could hear ANZAC soldiers, half a mile away, being shot to pieces." 

Edited July 2, 2022 by enfieldspares

[AULD YIN]

A good book to read on the subject is The SOMME BATTLEFIELDS by martin and mary middlebrooks ,I highly recommend it

[Mice!]

20 hours ago, Dave at kelton said:

When you grow up in East Lancashire the history of the Pals Battalions and long lists of names on the memorial at Oakhill Park, Accrington haunts you. My grandfather was there in the Royal Artillery……horrific.

We've just been through Oswaldtwistle and up Darwin Hill, I've always wondered why there are so many big war memorials in small places, that must be why.

[Dave at kelton]

30 minutes ago, Mice! said:

We've just been through Oswaldtwistle and up Darwin Hill, I've always wondered why there are so many big war memorials in small places, that must be why.

It is. Hardly a family in those east Lancs towns went unscathed. Of 760 Accrington Pals who went over the top at least 584 were killed wounded or missing on that first day of the Somme!

[Westward]

20 hours ago, MirokuMK70 said:

I always think of it on this day. One of my bucket list items is to stand at 07.30 on 1 july at gommecourt salient where the 46th north midland division went over. 

Do go and see it. What strikes is that these 2 territorial divisions, the 46th and 56th had to attack across open level ground with no cover. The enemy front line trench was between 400 and 800 yards away and the British were advancing against against well prepared defences. It's amazing that any of them even reached the enemy trenches at all but, amazingly, some positions were actually captured, although they couldn't be reinforced or held against counter attack.

This was of course a diversionary attack with the single purpose of drawing enemy troops and shell fire away from the main assault to the south and in this they did exactly what was required of them. Sadly, the casualties at Gommecourt were proportionately higher than for the rest of the Somme attack divisions on that day.

As a footnote the Gommecourt attack was commanded by General Snow, grandfather of Jon Snow the Ch 4 newsreader and Peter Snow of swingometer fame.

The 56th was reconstituted afterwards and despite being a territorial division, went on to be recognised by the high command as a first line division. As such they were thrown into every major attack until the end of the war. Ultimately suffering almost 35,000 casualties from a normal operational strength of about 12,000. And that excludes casualties before February 2016 when the 56th division was formed from the scattered battalions of the 1st London division.

[ditchman]

i cant trace my history as it is so complicated...dont know who's where when..

i used to remember in the late 60's and early 70's i used to see loads of badly disfigured faces on the street in Lynn and in the little villiges not far from where i now live...on a sat night outside a pub near here were always a collection of invalid carriges..some motorised...them light blue ones with a 2 stroke engine and a sliding door and a tee bar for a steering wheel...and wheel chairs with bycicle pedals turned by your arms....and sometimes a wheel chair with 2 levers like a skid steer loader.

they used to meet up and get slaughted and play 3's and 2's....some of them wore black eyepatches semi hiding deep crevices slashed across their face and some wore a black leather glove....they all had limbs missing and the replacments were clonky metalic and wooden....they used to walk like they just got off a boat

me and my mate used to drop in the pub to have a swift half and pick some fags up....it would all go quiet when we walked in...and would only go normal when we left.....we were young and in our teens and thought these miscreants ...criples...were just a fact of life and a pain in the bottom...i wasnt well read at that time and just accepted that there were these people hobbling about and getting in the way..smelling of booze and stale tobacco...they seemed to be everywhere........

it wasnt till many years later i realised thro reading and education ..who they were....they were the remenants/survivors of either the norfolks or the anglian regiments from the 1st world war.........these young lads had been brutlised...ripped apart...slashed ...shot...sharapneled..bayoneted..slashed and infected by barb wire

and they survived.........and to this day im utterly ashamed at the way i veiwed them...everyone of them was a better man than i could ever be....they are all gone now...but i will always remember that time in my life

[Mice!]

10 minutes ago, ditchman said:

and they survived.........and to this day im utterly ashamed at the way i veiwed them...everyone of them was a better man than i could ever be....they are all gone now...but i will always remember that time in my life

You won't have been any different to any other young lad, it wasn't really talked about so how would you know?

I know one of my grandads went to India as WW2 was ending so spoke about it being a waste of time getting sent.

My other Grandad did serve but I've no idea what he did, and although he died when I was around ten, I don't ever remember him mentioning anything about the war.

14 minutes ago, ditchman said:

it wasnt till many years later i realised thro reading and education ..who they were

And that's why it's important we remember them, so we don't repeat the same mistakes and because of what they gave.

[Tedward]

Ditchy, that made me cry.

[WalkedUp]

To give a modern relation. One of the lads on our shoot served HM in Iraq and Afghanistan as a cavalry sniper. He was blown up twice, the second time losing a leg. My boys (aged 3, 5 & 7) know him and wanted to know how he’d lost his leg:

Me: “He was in a tank and there was an explosion, and that hurt his leg”

Eldest: “Wow! So he was fired out of the turret?” 

I had to laugh. Most people would be broken by an experience he has been though but he is an incredibly strong person, hard grafter and never says no. I had an uphill foot race against him back to the truck yesterday to decide who was buying the first round (I won) 🤣

 

[amateur]

11 hours ago, ditchman said:

..some motorised...them light blue ones with a 2 stroke engine and a sliding door and a tee bar for a steering wheel...

Usually Invacars, made by Greeves (the later motorcycle builders) or, less often AC (who otherwise made sports cars).

Horrible devices replaced for safety reasons by the Motability scheme.