Steel v Lead

[B725]

It had to happen sometime so today was it was ,me and a mate have been crow shooting this morning we both had a box of Eley steel and a box of Gamebore steel so we could compare them.

In the beginning both of us were unsure as we didnt hit much and had a few injured one's that we had to dispatch ourselves. As the shooting continued we did get better I suppose it was a case of adjusting our shooting and we did kill some really good bird's so it's definitely not the cartridges. We did find a bit more perceived recoil and they seem to be a bit dirty in the barrels. We ended up with just over 60 asorted corvids and 8 pigeon. 

We both had 1/4 and1/2 choke in our gun's, on my 725 the writing on the choke said that is was 1/2 and 3/4 for steel so I'm wondering if I should have opened them up to allow for steel, I still have mixed feelings as does my mate as we both shot better when we swapped back to lead. 

[Dave at kelton]

Definitely open up the chokes as steel patterns tighter than lead. I use imp cyl and 1/4 and it’s plenty. Just try patterning at 30 yds.

[wymberley]

If your range of Browning supplied chokes is the same as for my 725 you may need to go shopping. Using the 1/4 for steel 1/2 for the tighter option only leaves TC for the more open. Although some won’t, I concur with the pattern test and TC may just prove satisfactory at 30 yards and plus a few, perhaps.

[Walker570]

Just put it in the pattern.  Better to assess the shooting performance than the cartridge. I had a partridge day last week and shot four birds four 24 shots but did not blame the cartridge or the chokes. I just did not put them in the pattern.

[wymberley]

GT Garwood said, "Confidence is the key to good shooting: testing is the key to confidence".

In this case one would not be testing the pattern but testing to see if there actually was one.

[Old farrier]

6 hours ago, B725 said:

It had to happen sometime so today was it was ,me and a mate have been crow shooting this morning we both had a box of Eley steel and a box of Gamebore steel so we could compare them.

In the beginning both of us were unsure as we didnt hit much and had a few injured one's that we had to dispatch ourselves. As the shooting continued we did get better I suppose it was a case of adjusting our shooting and we did kill some really good bird's so it's definitely not the cartridges. We did find a bit more perceived recoil and they seem to be a bit dirty in the barrels. We ended up with just over 60 asorted corvids and 8 pigeon. 

We both had 1/4 and1/2 choke in our gun's, on my 725 the writing on the choke said that is was 1/2 and 3/4 for steel so I'm wondering if I should have opened them up to allow for steel, I still have mixed feelings as does my mate as we both shot better when we swapped back to lead. 

A touch more info please in order to get a proper comparison 

shot size and load weight 

also what lead cartridge did you change to that you shot better with 

 

im with Dave at Kelton opening up the chokes would be a good step 

[B725]

The Eley was 32g 5s

Gamebore was 32g 4s

We then went back to Clear pigeon 32g 6s in lead 

[Scully]

Gamebore Supersteel 4’s are devastating on ducks, rabbits and crows through 3/8th, 1/2 and 3/4’s. Haven’t tried them on pigeon or pheasants as yet. 

[marsh man]

One box of cartridges each is a start but nowhere near enough to judge them on your performance , you stated  you didn't hit much to start off with and had a few wounded ones but started to get better as you had more shooting , the cartridge was the same when you started and kept the same until you used them all up , what did change was You , when you started you wasn't sure how they would perform and no doubt you were thinking that each time you pulled the trigger , as time wore on your thoughts were more on the target than the cartridge in your gun .

As already stated , try and pattern them out at say 30 yds , then buy a slab and use the lot on what you normally shoot and there will be a very good chance you will have a different opinion after a slab rather than a single box.  GOOD LUCK  

[B725]

I will try patterning some and open the chokes, last week we shot a similar amount of crow's just using the clear pigeon cartridges that I use for everything including pheasant shooting but we used less cartridges and almost everything we shot was dead. 

I suppose it's a case of finding a steel cartridge that suits my style of shooting with the gun I have 

[archi]

The empire cartridges in a 29g 5 steel are a good cartridge and I would say are worth a try

they seem to pattern tight as well

[Townie]

Small driven day yesterday where non toxic compulsory. I got hold of some Eley Grand Prix Traditional Steel and started the day fearing runners.

I was surprised how effective they were, with birds dead in the air. Gun next to me also using them and doing very well. Forgot I was using steel after the first drive.

[Walker570]

Brilliant!!!!  You obviously put them in the pattern, well done.

I have just done some pattern tests on my bismuth 410 reloads   18grms #6s BUT using my friends shotgun and him shooting.  First shot at 35yrds.....measured and checked not guessed.... and the pattern with open choke was bismal as I expected. He changed to a full choke and the pattern was spot on   BUT as he remarked, he did not believe 35 yrds was that far and of course the vast majority of shots on NORMAL shoots are more like 25yrds and of course the pattern is smaller.     I repeat....the first trick in the book is to put the bird in the pattern.  My old grandfather used to tell me...don't blame your tools.  He was a man who had a shoulder injury and could not fully shoulder mount a shotgun. I witnesed him on many days take a right and left out of a covey of real wild greys shooting from the hip usually with good old Grand Prix #5s.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Walker570

[joejoe]

I have been using Eley eco steel for a while for rough shooting. And sometimes I think they can damage the meat a little too much but other than that are pretty good. Bought a load when my partner was pregnant so would eat lead shot game. Also makes it an easier sell to her now feeding my toddler with game.

Did a driven day and switched to lead as I got a load of free cartridges from a guy at work. And wished I stuck with the Eley steel. 

[bunny_blaster]

Having used steel for 6 years on pigeon I can honestly say I don’t see the difference in its effectiveness compared to lead out to 50+ yards. I hear lots of people who used steel when it first came out say it doesn’t work but times have moved on with powder, shot and wads being better than years ago. Put the pattern in the right place and it will do the job perfectly fine. My go to cartridge now is the 28gr 5 from lylevale 

[Weihrauch17]

A total Lead ban will kill off many types of shooting which is exactly what the powers that be wanted and exactly what BASC were complicit with.  Absolutely no evidence of any impact on using Lead, we have been for hundreds of years and not a single recorded death from eating lead shot game or any evidence in the UK from issues with Airgun pellets, 22 lr etc etc. 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Weihrauch17

[rbrowning2]

7 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

A total Lead ban will kill off many types of shooting which is exactly what the powers that be wanted and exactly what BASC were complicit with.  Absolutely no evidence of any impact on using Lead, we have been for hundreds of years and not a single recorded death from eating lead shot game or any evidence in the UK from issues with Airgun pellets, 22 lr etc etc. 

agree see

https://www.afems.org/download/lead/independent-studies/Intake-of-Lead-from-Game-Meat.pdf

Frequent consumption of harvested game meat did not cause blood lead concentrations that were higher than normal levels in the population under study. According- ly, this type of food does not represent a relevant risk of exposure to lead to the consumer’s health.

and

https://www.afems.org/download/lead/independent-studies/Game-Meat-Hygiene-and-Human-Toxicology.pdf

other documents  also, from

https://www.afems.org/lead/

[Scully]

9 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

A total Lead ban will kill off many types of shooting which is exactly what the powers that be wanted and exactly what BASC were complicit with.  Absolutely no evidence of any impact on using Lead, we have been for hundreds of years and not a single recorded death from eating lead shot game or any evidence in the UK from issues with Airgun pellets, 22 lr etc etc. 

……and so on it goes. 
However, I’ll try again! Neither BASC, the NGO, the CPSA or any other of our shooting organisations are ‘complicit’ with anything to do with the lead shot ban. It is politics, pure and simple.

There are agendas at play here, involving many interested groups and organisations, from rabid antis to environmentalists. 
Admittedly, much of it is to do with the  class war against the perceived wealth and privilege of those who shoot game and in particular commercial driven game on and off the moors. It is a war we are with all intents and purposes losing, but it is what it is, and our organisations are left with little else to do in the face of the agenda of climate change, but to engage in a defence of damage limitation. 
What do You or anyone else, think the response of government and countless agenda driven organisations think the response and outcome would be if BASC etc had turned round and said ‘we aren’t complying’? 
Yes, we all know it’s a pile of poop, those who despise us so too, but they have agendas to pursue. 
Ok, let’s ban driven shooting, I hear many cry, especially those who don’t participate. But again, tell me why YOU believe that would change anything. Why do YOU think you would be left alone to bag your pigeons for sport or the odd brace of duck or geese? Tell me. 

[Scully]

1 hour ago, rbrowning2 said:

agree see

https://www.afems.org/download/lead/independent-studies/Intake-of-Lead-from-Game-Meat.pdf

Frequent consumption of harvested game meat did not cause blood lead concentrations that were higher than normal levels in the population under study. According- ly, this type of food does not represent a relevant risk of exposure to lead to the consumer’s health.

and

https://www.afems.org/download/lead/independent-studies/Game-Meat-Hygiene-and-Human-Toxicology.pdf

other documents  also, from

https://www.afems.org/lead/

I know, you know and everyone knows. However, we are up against political and social agendas. No contest. 

[arjimlad]

Thanks for the reviews above of steel ammo.

I have some Gamebore Super Steel 5s, and have found them effective on decoyed pigeons which are not too far out.

I dislike the plastic wads though. 

I'll be using lead on pheasants on Saturday because I don't use plaswads where livestock is grazing. 

[Penelope]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

I know, you know and everyone knows. However, we are up against political and social agendas. No contest. 

Sadly all very true.

[Scully]

13 minutes ago, arjimlad said:

Thanks for the reviews above of steel ammo.

I have some Gamebore Super Steel 5s, and have found them effective on decoyed pigeons which are not too far out.

I dislike the plastic wads though. 

I'll be using lead on pheasants on Saturday because I don't use plaswads where livestock is grazing. 

Good cartridge. Gamebore are making some good steel loads without plastic wads now, and are being used at Warter Priory ( high bird shoot ) as that shoot has now banned lead outright. 
Eleys eco wad has had positive reviews also. 

[arjimlad]

Thanks @Scully I will have to get some of those in due course - maybe when they become more comparable in price, hopefully in a wee while. 

I'm well stocked with lead at the moment, and our shoot only produces enough for the participants to take home. 

[enfieldspares]

12 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

A total Lead ban will kill off many types of shooting which is exactly what the powers that be wanted and exactly what BASC were complicit with.  Absolutely no evidence of any impact on using Lead, we have been for hundreds of years and not a single recorded death from eating lead shot game or any evidence in the UK from issues with Airgun pellets, 22 lr etc etc. 

This. +1.

[rbrowning2]

2 hours ago, Scully said:

……and so on it goes. 
However, I’ll try again! Neither BASC, the NGO, the CPSA or any other of our shooting organisations are ‘complicit’ with anything to do with the lead shot ban. It is politics, pure and simple.

There are agendas at play here, involving many interested groups and organisations, from rabid antis to environmentalists. 
Admittedly, much of it is to do with the  class war against the perceived wealth and privilege of those who shoot game and in particular commercial driven game on and off the moors. It is a war we are with all intents and purposes losing, but it is what it is, and our organisations are left with little else to do in the face of the agenda of climate change, but to engage in a defence of damage limitation. 
What do You or anyone else, think the response of government and countless agenda driven organisations think the response and outcome would be if BASC etc had turned round and said ‘we aren’t complying’? 
Yes, we all know it’s a pile of poop, those who despise us so too, but they have agendas to pursue. 
Ok, let’s ban driven shooting, I hear many cry, especially those who don’t participate. But again, tell me why YOU believe that would change anything. Why do YOU think you would be left alone to bag your pigeons for sport or the odd brace of duck or geese? Tell me. 

 

oh that’s ok then as politicians always know what’s best, and what has climate change got to do with it? i bet the carbon footprint for a tonne of steel shot is far greater than a tonne of lead shot.