Cartridges prices

[Stonepark]

4 hours ago, TK421 said:

I get all this but as mentioned in my earlier, regardless prices won’t come back down, making it bit of a moot point really. All these companies  especially the energy companies are showing record profits  I just don’t buy the BS anymore. First it was price increase from covid bandwagon. Now it’s Ukraine. End of the day we all suffer in this sport due to nothing more than greed from every aspect. The decision is wether we put up with it and pay the price. 

We are all suffering due to successive governments poor financial, policy and economic management (and Labour coming back into power as predicted for the next election will only make it worse) as virtually no one in government understands the larger picture and targets required to keep the UK humming along energy wise, instead policy is littered with theory, compromise and short term targets.

The UK needs to be self sufficient in inexpensive energy (oil, gas, coal, renewables, electricity) and have access to inexpensive base materials for everything that follows to be inexpensive.

By instead relying on other countries for energy in particular (we import 40% of natural gas used, 35% of oil used, 10% of electricity used), everything made from or consumed during manufacture is expensive as we have to pay "market" prices for the energy (i.e. outbid everyone else).

For this to be fixed, we need to increase our own production of energy so we have a surplus (gas, oil, coal, nuclear, renewables), substituting where required and then disconnect the UK from the EU markets in order to enjoy the benefits again of inexpensive energy (just like USA and Russia, etc enjoy today).

[TK421]

16 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

We are all suffering due to successive governments poor financial, policy and economic management (and Labour coming back into power as predicted for the next election will only make it worse) as virtually no one in government understands the larger picture and targets required to keep the UK humming along energy wise, instead policy is littered with theory, compromise and short term targets.

The UK needs to be self sufficient in inexpensive energy (oil, gas, coal, renewables, electricity) and have access to inexpensive base materials for everything that follows to be inexpensive.

By instead relying on other countries for energy in particular (we import 40% of natural gas used, 35% of oil used, 10% of electricity used), everything made from or consumed during manufacture is expensive as we have to pay "market" prices for the energy (i.e. outbid everyone else).

For this to be fixed, we need to increase our own production of energy so we have a surplus (gas, oil, coal, nuclear, renewables), substituting where required and then disconnect the UK from the EU markets in order to enjoy the benefits again of inexpensive energy (just like USA and Russia, etc enjoy today).

100% mate. We need to bring industry/manufacturing back to the UK as well. 
we’re well and truly in the ****, but if you think things can’t get worse wait and see what Labour can do. 

tories “we’ve f kd things up” Labour “ hold my beer” 

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by TK421

[TK421]

On 01/03/2023 at 07:18, Rupert said:

New Faces, at Swinton on Saturday for 100 esp  there were minimum 100 entries,cant be exact as some may be hidden.from that pool of shooters there were 6 that were starred against there classification- awaiting classification. Shot less than 300 targets at Registerd shoots Probably all chuntering about costs but stepping up with there monies never the less. 

 

 

Regarding strong numbers at comps and new faces etc. It was mentioned by quite a few shooters that they will now shoot 1 or 2 comps a month only and drop the practice sessions, net result is less overall spend. Granted comps may look busier,  reality is the money in the till for the clubs end of the month will be down dramatically. 
It’s logical, those that can afford will continue to spend the same amount as they’ve always done , those that were already struggling with carts blowing past the £200 per thousand mark last year are now reaching £300 + per thousand will stop or reduce their spend, something has to give. Let’s put it another way, the industry will hardly flourish with this ever increasing merry go round of bonkers price rises. 

for the record,  my mid week practice this week there was most definitely a reduced number of punters, most of which are still shooting last seasons prices of stock they’re holding. 
i say all of this because I love the sport and want it to continue, not because I want it to end. Eyes open to the big picture  that’s all. 
 

Edited March 3, 2023 by TK421

[NoBodyImportant]

Last time I bought in the states it was 18$ usd per 100, it’s like 35$ now

[wisdom]

Just a thought.The cheddite cartridges I use are a pound cheaper per 250 than steel 7.5's,Could there be a sudden increase above steel prices forcing the steel cartridge to be cheaper.Could all these price rises be for another motive.

[TK421]

39 minutes ago, wisdom said:

Just a thought.The cheddite cartridges I use are a pound cheaper per 250 than steel 7.5's,Could there be a sudden increase above steel prices forcing the steel cartridge to be cheaper.Could all these price rises be for another motive.

That’s an interesting thought mate. 

[Andy H]

A few years ago when there was a large increase in price (Well before Brexit), They blamed the drop of the pound against the Euro for the raise in price ,Then they blamed the price increase on the raising price of oil to import/Transport  cartridges and make and import components( Wads etc) ,But the price never dropped once the euro dropped against the pound and the price of oil dropped below what it was before the hike in  cartridge prices.

[Poor Shot]

My local Sunday shoot has been relatively quiet for the last 5-6 weeks or post Christmas break really. They would normally have circa 20-25 shooters on even the wet and cold Sundays but we they've been down around the 8-12 mark lately. Those attending are either young, without families and/or spending commotments or the relatively well off retired. At £10 for 50 clays which is just about the cheapest around there isnt much else in the way of competition. A lot of the older faces have not been seen for a while and quite a few others are limiting themselves to once a month due to the costs and increases in their everyday spend.

I'm quite fortunate that I do well enough and don't have children or a family to support but if I did then shooting would be a non starter.

Now that the game season has ended and the weather is starting to improve I would normally plan to shoot a registered comp most weekends with 100 bird practice on Saturdays and Thursdays. I may need to take a look at that this year. It seems a bit off to be spending £90 a week on entry fees and another £80 - £100 on cartridges and more on fuel, coffees etc. This time last year it would have been £75 on entry with £60 at most on cartridges. Only a £35 a week increase but it adds up over the course of a summers clay shooting.

I've had two separate email advertisements this week from just cartridges regarding new (rebadged existing) gamebore cartridges. Black Gold Onyx which, as far as I can tell, are just a rebranded Black Gold and the Rose Gold which are the discontinued White Gold cartridges. It goes without saying that both have been launched with a significant increase in cost. The Onyx starting at £449 per thousand. I wonder if this is the start of manufacturers discontinuing existing product lines to mask the cost increases by giving us nothing to compare today's pricing to. I remember Fiocchi litespeed being less than £190 per thousand and now they are over £240 at a local RFD. Eley Selects and Express English sporting have both also seen similar increases in this time. This summer will be the third year of my first SGC cert to give an idea of timescale.

[Poor Shot]

4 hours ago, wisdom said:

Just a thought.The cheddite cartridges I use are a pound cheaper per 250 than steel 7.5's,Could there be a sudden increase above steel prices forcing the steel cartridge to be cheaper.Could all these price rises be for another motive.

I doubt it. Steel will rise in the same manner to be kept above lead. 

Caledonian used to sell a steel clay cartridge, a 28g 7 shot at £48 per slab. Overnight, without any prior warning they increased the price to £78 per slab. A £30 increase for seemingly no reason. Today they are £84 per slab. The price has near enough doubled in under 12 months.

I can only assume that they were eating into the sales of their lead cartridges or there's just too much temptation to sell steel as an exotic and therefore more cost demanding alternative.

Shame really as they were very good cartridges. A bit punchy but fast with a tight pattern and good breaks at distance.

[TK421]

To anyone who thinks the big players like Hull or Gamebore are on the bones of their **** just ‘trying to survive in tough times’ some hard and fast figures for you to peruse.

Hull 2021 £13m turnover gross profit £3.5m shareholders fund £8.4m

Hull 2022 £18m turnover. Gross profit £5.5m shareholder fund £9.7. 
with 2020 & 2019 showing pretty much the same growth. 
Pre covid 2018 when all was well in the world. Turnover £14m profit £3.5m

In fact showing a steady increase year on year across the board. Obviously there’s more to the accounts and would urge you to check the data for yourselves as I’ve just provided a snippet of info and there’s far more to it. But don’t look to be on a downward spiral, in fact they’re doing very well indeed. 
 

gamebores figures are even stronger 2021 £19m turnover. With a nice £17m shareholders fund. 
Don’t think we should worry about them keeping the lights on. 
I reckon 2023 will show even more growth. 
all interesting stuff 

Edited March 4, 2023 by TK421

[London Best]

9 hours ago, Poor Shot said:

My local Sunday shoot has been relatively quiet for the last 5-6 weeks or post Christmas break really. They would normally have circa 20-25 shooters on even the wet and cold Sundays but we they've been down around the 8-12 mark lately. Those attending are either young, without families and/or spending commotments or the relatively well off retired. At £10 for 50 clays which is just about the cheapest around there isnt much else in the way of competition. A lot of the older faces have not been seen for a while and quite a few others are limiting themselves to once a month due to the costs and increases in their everyday spend.

I'm quite fortunate that I do well enough and don't have children or a family to support but if I did then shooting would be a non starter.

Now that the game season has ended and the weather is starting to improve I would normally plan to shoot a registered comp most weekends with 100 bird practice on Saturdays and Thursdays. I may need to take a look at that this year. It seems a bit off to be spending £90 a week on entry fees and another £80 - £100 on cartridges and more on fuel, coffees etc. This time last year it would have been £75 on entry with £60 at most on cartridges. Only a £35 a week increase but it adds up over the course of a summers clay shooting.

I've had two separate email advertisements this week from just cartridges regarding new (rebadged existing) gamebore cartridges. Black Gold Onyx which, as far as I can tell, are just a rebranded Black Gold and the Rose Gold which are the discontinued White Gold cartridges. It goes without saying that both have been launched with a significant increase in cost. The Onyx starting at £449 per thousand. I wonder if this is the start of manufacturers discontinuing existing product lines to mask the cost increases by giving us nothing to compare today's pricing to. I remember Fiocchi litespeed being less than £190 per thousand and now they are over £240 at a local RFD. Eley Selects and Express English sporting have both also seen similar increases in this time. This summer will be the third year of my first SGC cert to give an idea of timescale.

£200/week!!!  

These days I only shoot driven game, and I don’t spend half that.

100 bird days with ten guns and you can have ten driven days per season for less than 5 grand including fuel and cartridges.

[Scully]

1 minute ago, London Best said:

£200/week!!!  

These days I only shoot driven game, and I don’t spend half that.

100 bird days with ten guns and you can have ten driven days per season for less than 5 grand including fuel and cartridges.

Shooting a maximum of 10 birds each, each day? Over how many drives? 

[London Best]

Just now, Scully said:

Shooting a maximum of 10 birds each, each day? Over how many drives? 

Usually five.

[Scully]

1 minute ago, London Best said:

Usually five.

So each gun is restricted to shooting 2 birds per drive? And you’re paying for that! 

[London Best]

Just now, Scully said:

So each gun is restricted to shooting 2 birds per drive? And you’re paying for that! 

No, I’m paying for a day out with friends. 
I don’t want to shoot clay saucers just so I can pull a trigger more.

[TRINITY]

From talking around,many shooters seem to have been stocking up prior to this latest rise. Many will continue to shoot regular for a few months or so, perhaps even through the summer. However from now on I suspect cartridge sales will fall whilst stocks are used and then once they have gone many shooters will be reluctant to shoot as many at the higher prices. Lets hope the cartridge producers feel a squeeze and then they may have reason to look at ways of making their products more affordable. 

[Wilts#Dave]

On 04/03/2023 at 07:10, TK421 said:

To anyone who thinks the big players like Hull or Gamebore are on the bones of their **** just ‘trying to survive in tough times’ some hard and fast figures for you to peruse.

Hull 2021 £13m turnover gross profit £3.5m shareholders fund £8.4m

Hull 2022 £18m turnover. Gross profit £5.5m shareholder fund £9.7. 
with 2020 & 2019 showing pretty much the same growth. 
Pre covid 2018 when all was well in the world. Turnover £14m profit £3.5m

In fact showing a steady increase year on year across the board. Obviously there’s more to the accounts and would urge you to check the data for yourselves as I’ve just provided a snippet of info and there’s far more to it. But don’t look to be on a downward spiral, in fact they’re doing very well indeed. 
 

gamebores figures are even stronger 2021 £19m turnover. With a nice £17m shareholders fund. 
Don’t think we should worry about them keeping the lights on. 
I reckon 2023 will show even more growth. 
all interesting stuff 

This is more like it. They hiked the price considerably some years ago in one big jump, which everyone gasped at….they got away with it and have continued to put them up as they see fit to make more and more money. Whilst sales still allow them to do so why would they stop rising prices? They won’t is the simple answer! 
I’m only 40 but remember in my late teens pigeon cartridges being around the £100/1000 mark, £150 bought you decent shells and plenty of clay loads under £100/1000. 
When I was working up near Oxford in a farm, I would have been 18/19 and I used to buy a shops own branded shell which was a Hull Chevron clay shell loaded with 6 shot they sold as a budget pigeon load for £74/1000!!!! 

[TK421]

Lots of companies, governments etc making lots of money out of crisis. We saw it throughout covid, money being made for the elite was insane, it still continues. This has now worryingly become the norm. The more we suffer, the more they make, what a fantastic business model for the people! 

[Westley]

On 01/03/2023 at 06:14, Robden said:

Agreed. Friend payed £239 for 1000 F blacks 7.5s.

I paid that price for the same, last month. Next week I will be paying £270 for the same thing  ! I think Hull have hung back and as such will be looking for 2000 Superfarts. 

[Centrepin]

@Westley

£508 for 2000 Superfast 28th Feb.

[Westley]

£492 in plastic wad. I begrudge paying them any more  !

[TIGHTCHOKE]

6 hours ago, Westley said:

I paid that price for the same, last month. Next week I will be paying £270 for the same thing  ! I think Hull have hung back and as such will be looking for 2000 Superfarts. 

Interesting!   

Edited March 5, 2023 by TIGHTCHOKE

[Smudger687]

Like many others here, I believe that cartridge manufacturers are just the latest sector of the retail market to price gouge when a good opportunity to do so arises. They are not unique in this, supermarkets have been doing the same thing as well. 

Food and household goods are price inelastic, there really isn't much way around paying the extra for most people.

Cartridges, not so much. 

The best thing you can do to make your displeasure known is to stop buying cartridges and hit them in their bottom lines. 

[Westley]

3 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Interesting!   

Yes, I never know which way the wind is blowing when it comes to cartridges   !

I used to use only Cheddite, but I am afraid they have priced themselves out of the market.

[Poor Shot]

38 minutes ago, Westley said:

Yes, I never know which way the wind is blowing when it comes to cartridges   !

I used to use only Cheddite, but I am afraid they have priced themselves out of the market.

Universal trap was a good cartridge at £220 - £230 a thousand but I can't stand to pay nearly £265 for them now when there are better options at that price point. Like superfarts..

Smart strikes now around £300 a thousand..