Surviving the pay squeeze.

[Mungler]

On 21/03/2023 at 17:42, Lloyd90 said:

 

What’s going wrong in your opinion? 

The current Government can’t seem to get anything right and I doubt the next one is going to be much better. 
 

There’s been lots of studies about happiness and it’s all about comparisons and expectations. 

We all currently have very high and very unrealistic expectations about pretty much everything.

If we all never switched on the news or read a newspaper for a couple of years, what would change in our own worlds? What differences would we notice? The answer is nothing.

What would our government have done / not done for us in the same period and as it affects our own lives / worlds? Probably very little - the only immediate and noticeable difference would be what you find in your take home pay or if a local facility shuts (hospital, school, police station etc).

Brexit, covid and Ukraine has done for all of us with the catastrophisation of all news and the daily suggestion that the government is responsible for everything and everyone of us.

Anyone who thinks that any government is going to do anything for them personally is nuts - the best we can hope for is they do nothing, they stay out of our business, let us keep a bit more of the money we earn, and we let the world spin on its own without their interference.

[oowee]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

There’s been lots of studies about happiness and it’s all about comparisons and expectations. 

We all currently have very high and very unrealistic expectations about pretty much everything.

If we all never switched on the news or read a newspaper for a couple of years, what would change in our own worlds? What differences would we notice? The answer is nothing.

What would our government have done / not done for us in the same period and as it affects our own lives / worlds? Probably very little - the only immediate and noticeable difference would be what you find in your take home pay or if a local facility shuts (hospital, school, police station etc).

Brexit, covid and Ukraine has done for all of us with the catastrophisation of all news and the daily suggestion that the government is responsible for everything and everyone of us.

Anyone who thinks that any government is going to do anything for them personally is nuts - the best we can hope for is they do nothing, they stay out of our business, let us keep a bit more of the money we earn, and we let the world spin on its own without their interference.

Oh come on!! This is the first time the UK is seeing it's next generation being worse off than their parents. Take a look beyond your horizons and and much of the country is falling apart even if you do not feel it personally. 

We are living beyond our means on shaky foundations. The Govt has no role to play in our business but it must create the conditions and environment for prosperity. 

[discobob]

3 hours ago, oowee said:

The Govt has no role to play in our business but it must create the conditions and environment for prosperity. 

The only condition the government is creating is one that is being fed to them by globalists- and Labour won’t be any different as can be seen from the glorious Welsh Assembly who Kier Starmer holds up as being the model if they get into power

[Mungler]

4 hours ago, oowee said:

Oh come on!! This is the first time the UK is seeing it's next generation being worse off than their parents. Take a look beyond your horizons and and much of the country is falling apart even if you do not feel it personally. 

We are living beyond our means on shaky foundations. The Govt has no role to play in our business but it must create the conditions and environment for prosperity. 

‘There’s been lots of studies about happiness and it’s all about comparisons and expectations. ‘

So we have a current generation with an expectation of doing better than the last by comparison; hence unhappiness.

Anyone think the current generation have it worse than that of the 1970’s? What about the 1980’s? And the 1990’s? Etc.

But yes, globally we’re all massively over borrowed. 

[Lloyd90]

11 hours ago, Mungler said:

Anyone who thinks that any government is going to do anything for them personally is nuts - the best we can hope for is they do nothing, they stay out of our business, let us keep a bit more of the money we earn, and we let the world spin on its own without their interference.

 

Any Government is just a collective to pool resources and putting those resources to use for certain things / projects. 
 

The NHS, infrastructure, our roads, schools, internet, etc etc etc are all a result of these projects and goals. 
 

You can still go to countries today that barely have roads let alone advanced infrastructure. 
 

People today have access to Education, Healthcare that’s free at the point of delivery, infrastructure that allows easy fast travel, opportunity that was well beyond the means of past generations. 
 

The idea that we don’t personally don’t benefit from the advancement of the entire countries infrastructure is just naive. 

[Lloyd90]

5 hours ago, Mungler said:

‘There’s been lots of studies about happiness and it’s all about comparisons and expectations. ‘

So we have a current generation with an expectation of doing better than the last by comparison; hence unhappiness.

Anyone think the current generation have it worse than that of the 1970’s? What about the 1980’s? And the 1990’s? Etc.

But yes, globally we’re all massively over borrowed. 

Well in those past generations, whilst their were some times or inflation and economic uncertainty, typically a man working full time could buy a home without too much bother getting a deposit, his wife could stay at home and raise his kids, they could afford a car, a decent enough standard of living, home prices were more affordable generally, overall prices were lower, energy etc was more affordable. 
 

Look at the situation for the majority of people now. 

[Bobba]

1 hour ago, Lloyd90 said:

Well in those past generations, whilst their were some times or inflation and economic uncertainty, typically a man working full time could buy a home without too much bother getting a deposit, his wife could stay at home and raise his kids, they could afford a car, a decent enough standard of living, home prices were more affordable generally, overall prices were lower, energy etc was more affordable. 
 

Look at the situation for the majority of people now. 

Lloyd perhaps you should return your Rose tinted spectacles on sweeping generalisations to spec savers 

I’m 1943 born. Yes, we bought our own house, but getting the deposit was far from “too much bother” and at one stage we suffered mortgage interest rates as high as 17% on a repayment mortgage. I earned a reasonable salary but my wife could not “stay at home and raise the kids” We still had to balance the budget with the care of two children. When I returned from work my wife would do the housewives evening shift at the local factory and when that closed then evening shifts at the local hospital. We were not alone. So many of our friends and neighbours worked in this way: and we couldn’t afford a car until I was 32 - a beaten up Austin A40.

Your suggestion that we never had it so good is absolute oarlocks. 
 

You certainly couldn’t post your comments in the South Wales Argus for fear of being lynched 😂😂😂

 

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Bobba

[johnphilip]

43 minutes ago, Bobba said:

Lloyd perhaps you should return your Rose tinted spectacles on sweeping generalisations to spec savers 

I’m 1943 born. Yes, we bought our own house, but getting the deposit was far from “too much bother” and at one stage we suffered mortgage interest rates as high as 17% on a repayment mortgage. I earned a reasonable salary but my wife could not “stay at home and raise the kids” We still had to balance the budget with the care of two children. When I returned from work my wife would do the housewives evening shift at the local factory and when that closed then evening shifts at the local hospital. We were not alone. So many of our friends and neighbours worked in this way. Your suggestion that we never it so good is absolute oarlocks
 

You certainly couldn’t post these comments in the South Wales Argus for fear of being lynched 😂😂😂

 

 

100%  correct I was born in 1950,  lived in a small village  . My father was a  Tunneler  working  underground. 

They would  get " rained Off " or snowed in   no work no pay . They had to snow plug the streets  to get there  dole . My older  brother and two sisters  got jobs soon as they left school.  No going onto further education  they had to chip in .

When I was 14 got a paper round  morning and night  and Saturday  a butchers  round  , used to give mum some of my earnings . 

No sweets or pocket money , 

Christmas was something  to look forward  to a small present.  

But it taught us to be happy and  content with what  we had .

There was not many cars in the street back then .

Cardboard  in your shoes  to cover the holes in the soles . Old  sock on hands as you played in the  snow  . There was alway  food on the table,  mum  could make a big meal . We used to get the pig rib bones from the butcher  , cracked and made into a stew with veg  grown in our garden . Use to love  picking  the meat of the rib bones. 

[udderlyoffroad]

Oh christ this thread has now degenerated into Monty Python's 4 Yorkshiremen sketch, where the boomers are now trying to out-poverty each other.

I'll have you know we lived in a cardboard box in't'middle of the motorway.

2 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

People today have access to Education, Healthcare that’s free at the point of delivery, infrastructure that allows easy fast travel, opportunity that was well beyond the means of past generations. 

Which country are you taking about?  Because I know you’re not talking about the UK.

Healthcare is all but inaccessible to the majority of the population.  Education?  Every Western European country beats us in terms of educational standards, including in English!  The state of the infrastructure could politely be described as crumbling (although I’d go with ****), and the opportunities are limited to “emigrate to somewhere that doesn’t tax the bejesus out of you in return for third world infrastructure."

[Mungler]

The housing ladder moan of today is BS especially against nearly 2 decades of zero interest rates.

The amount of young couples we see who move in together into rented ‘to save up a deposit’ but who never ever do and 5 years later they’re still renting. It’s because they want designer clothes, a nice watch, a leased Merc and two foreign holidays a year and as soon as they save £10k they spend it on treating themselves.

The economy is at maximum employment. There’s not enough people for the jobs out there.

The ‘alphas’ I see are still doing it - personal sacrifice, financial discipline and hard work understanding that it is only they who hold the keys a better life. Everyone else sits on the sofa of an evening watching telly and moaning about how the government hasn’t given them the life they want.

 

[Dougy]

12 minutes ago, Mungler said:

The housing ladder moan of today is BS especially against nearly 2 decades of zero interest rates.

The amount of young couples we see who move in together into rented ‘to save up a deposit’ but who never ever do and 5 years later they’re still renting. It’s because they want designer clothes, a nice watch, a leased Merc and two foreign holidays a year and as soon as they save £10k they spend it on treating themselves.

The economy is at maximum employment. There’s not enough people for the jobs out there.

The ‘alphas’ I see are still doing it - personal sacrifice, financial discipline and hard work understanding that it is only they who hold the keys a better life. Everyone else sits on the sofa of an evening watching telly and moaning about how the government hasn’t given them the life they want.

 

I see this day in day out, yet they moan they have no money due to debt by their own doing, they have the chance to increase their income by a few £100 a month but dont want to loose out on their free time. This free time i know is spent worrying about where the money will be coming from to get them out of the rut their in, i'm sure they expect some nice bulky envelope to drop through the letter box on the matt. 

One chap i know self employed had lovely holdays abroad, nice looking girlfriend but now has B all due to unpaid tax he cant afford to pay back. 

I was a 60s babe, we would eat what was put in front of us or go without, had no heating apart from a coal fire we'd put jumpers on if we were cold, shoe's resoled with leather cut from old shoes.

We made do with what we had, but never wanted for anything. 

 

 

 

 

[scobydog]

As Dougy says, people made do with what they had, make do and mend, unfortunately in the throw away society we live in it is no longer what people do as it is too easy to get credit for most things. 

 

S

[Lloyd90]

You lot can’t seem to make your mind up!! 
 

Everyone talks about the “good old days” but based off all that we past was bloody terrible … 

All this has concluded to me is that people weren’t happy with how things were in the past; then they’re not happy with how things are now, and talk about the good old days … until someone says they had it easier and then they come out with all the hardships and say how awful the past was 🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

Bunch of bloody moaners!!!

2 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Oh christ this thread has now degenerated into Monty Python's 4 Yorkshiremen sketch, where the boomers are now trying to out-poverty each other.

I'll have you know we lived in a cardboard box in't'middle of the motorway.

Which country are you taking about?  Because I know you’re not talking about the UK.

Healthcare is all but inaccessible to the majority of the population.  Education?  Every Western European country beats us in terms of educational standards, including in English!  The state of the infrastructure could politely be described as crumbling (although I’d go with ****), and the opportunities are limited to “emigrate to somewhere that doesn’t tax the bejesus out of you in return for third world infrastructure."

🤣🤣🤣 

 

 

[Westward]

2 hours ago, Mungler said:

The housing ladder moan of today is BS especially against nearly 2 decades of zero interest rates.

The amount of young couples we see who move in together into rented ‘to save up a deposit’ but who never ever do and 5 years later they’re still renting. It’s because they want designer clothes, a nice watch, a leased Merc and two foreign holidays a year and as soon as they save £10k they spend it on treating themselves.

The economy is at maximum employment. There’s not enough people for the jobs out there.

The ‘alphas’ I see are still doing it - personal sacrifice, financial discipline and hard work understanding that it is only they who hold the keys a better life. Everyone else sits on the sofa of an evening watching telly and moaning about how the government hasn’t given them the life they want.

 

Spot on.

It's all very well scoffing but no one under about 50 today has the slightest clue what it's like to be truly hard up. I'm talking about things like waking up to frost on the inside of the windows and getting out of bed onto bare lino. Both my mother and my wife's made most of their own clothes, as well as some for us as kids and they knitted every woollen garment for everyone in the family. My father in law had no central heating until 1989 when he was 83 years old and my mother didn't have  central heating until 1985 when she was widowed at 70 and moved to a modern house. 

Every single benefit today - and there are many - is wide open to abuse and most benefit recipients and also many employers, especially the supermarkets, know exactly how to manipulate the systems. We now have a huge percentage of the population who simply make a lifestyle choice to live off the taxpayer rather than take up regular employment and make a contribution to society. Only a tiny minority are in dire straights through no fault of their own - funny how the BBC can always find them!

On our allotments they came up with the wheeze of a box where we could donate any surplus produce to the local food bank. Stupidly I suggested that since we had about 10 vacant plots we could offer them free of charge to the food bank users so they could grow their own.  Surprise surprise, there were no takers. Some wit suggested it was because they'd never seen any veg that hadn't been washed and wrapped in film.

[Mice!]

4 hours ago, Mungler said:

The housing ladder moan of today is BS especially against nearly 2 decades of zero interest rates.

The amount of young couples we see who move in together into rented ‘to save up a deposit’ but who never ever do and 5 years later they’re still renting. It’s because they want designer clothes, a nice watch, a leased Merc and two foreign holidays a year and as soon as they save £10k they spend it on treating themselves.

The economy is at maximum employment. There’s not enough people for the jobs out there.

The ‘alphas’ I see are still doing it - personal sacrifice, financial discipline and hard work understanding that it is only they who hold the keys a better life. Everyone else sits on the sofa of an evening watching telly and moaning about how the government hasn’t given them the life they want.

 

Very good 👍 

It really doesn't matter at all how hard things were in the 50s, 60s or 70s because its 2023 and unfortunately these days many choose to live off the state, its not through hard times, that's what they've chosen, to not work and have things handed to them, then their kids do the same thing.

[Poor Shot]

Jesus ****, the boomers are out in force.

"When I were a lad we had no central heating. The only warmth to be found on a cold winters eve was that found when we all huddled around old dad's hairy ********" 

The past wasn't necessarily better than the present but the youth of today aren't struggling because they like to buy a greggs pasty on the way into work rather than home made sandwiches or have a relatively new car rather than an old ****box that needed a new box and 8 hours of welding to pass each MOT like many of you may have had. They're struggling because its generally **** (same as its always been) and they are facing real issues.

TLDR: It was **** back then and its still **** now but only the things that were **** back then are different to things that are **** today.

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Poor Shot

[Bigbob]

Getting back to the topic i am surviving by getting back to wheeling and dealing again maybe we are  eating a bit more food on or near its expire date , But the only thing i am  struggling on is getting some trouts LOL .I think a few mates have found fishing a bit too expensive just now 

[Westward]

1 hour ago, Poor Shot said:

Jesus ****, the boomers are out in force.

"When I were a lad we had no central heating. The only warmth to be found on a cold winters eve was that found when we all huddled around old dad's hairy ********" 

The past wasn't necessarily better than the present but the youth of today aren't struggling because they like to buy a greggs pasty on the way into work rather than home made sandwiches or have a relatively new car rather than an old ****box that needed a new box and 8 hours of welding to pass each MOT like many of you may have had. They're struggling because its generally **** (same as its always been) and they are facing real issues.

TLDR: It was **** back then and its still **** now but only the things that were **** back then are different to things that are **** today.

 

You can sneer all you want but the fact is that there is no real poverty in 2023 but there certainly was 70 years ago.

Work at school, pass exams with decent grades, move on to higher education and study a "proper" subject, not nonsense social studies or textile design and be prepared to to accept employment away from the old home town. Then you have a life, a career and prospects as they used to call it  and more importantly, opportunity for a better and self sufficient life.

There're no short cuts, no amount of government initiatives or "levelling up" stunts, the only thing that works is initiative and effort based on an understanding that a better life comes from encouragement and support within the family.

The one thing that is the same today as it was 70 years ago is that without education you'll always be bumping along at the bottom of the heap, except that now, there's a basket of benefits and tons of free stuff.

[udderlyoffroad]

2 hours ago, Poor Shot said:

Jesus ****, the boomers are out in force.

"When I were a lad we had no central heating. The only warmth to be found on a cold winters eve was that found when we all huddled around old dad's hairy ********" 

If you've owned a home for 25-30 years plus that is now worth many times more than what you paid for it then you've no real right to comment on the situation of anyone entering the housing market today.

If you were able to enter the job market and secure a reasonably well paying job without having to first enter further education, go to university and work zero hours contracts, then you have no right to comment on those entering the job market today. University isn't a luxury today as it was yesteryear, its a minimum standard. Gone are the days where you could get by with an O level in Maths and a word in the ear of the supervisor from your old man.

I'm not saying that the past was necessarily better than the present but the youth of today aren't struggling because they like to buy a greggs pasty on the way into work rather than home made sandwiches or have a relatively new car rather than an old ****box that needed a new box and 8 hours of welding to pass each MOT like many of you may have had. They're struggling because its generally **** (same as its always been) and they are facing real issues.

 

Good post.

8 minutes ago, Westward said:

You can sneer all you want but the fact is that there is no real poverty in 2023 but there certainly was 70 years ago.

What a ridiculous statement.

Just because the welfare state seemingly has no will to address those multi-generational families who um, see benefits as a lifestyle choice, and those who shamelessly 'game the system,' does not mean genuine poverty does not exist.

 

 

[Mungler]

28 minutes ago, Westward said:

You can sneer all you want but the fact is that there is no real poverty in 2023 but there certainly was 70 years ago.

Work at school, pass exams with decent grades, move on to higher education and study a "proper" subject, not nonsense social studies or textile design and be prepared to to accept employment away from the old home town. Then you have a life, a career and prospects as they used to call it  and more importantly, opportunity for a better and self sufficient life.

There're no short cuts, no amount of government initiatives or "levelling up" stunts, the only thing that works is initiative and effort based on an understanding that a better life comes from encouragement and support within the family.

The one thing that is the same today as it was 70 years ago is that without education you'll always be bumping along at the bottom of the heap, except that now, there's a basket of benefits and tons of free stuff.

Bang on.

 

Here’s what I see people just waste money on:

1. car washing / hoovering 

2. pet groomers every 8 weeks at £60 a go

3. dog walkers 

4. Costa / Starbucks 

5. Blokes spending more than £15 on a haircut

6. cleaner / gardener / ironing / laundry 

7. Takeaways

8. work lunch everyday from a sandwich shop / costa 

9. cars and car finance - we had a client buy a Range Rover Sport from a designer 4x4 dealer - it was either the car, the deal or the depreciation but he ‘did’ £20k on that car inside of it 15 months - it was just worth £20k less than he paid for it. He bought the car out of net income and so a £20k loss on that car is like going to work to earn £30k gross and have nothing to show for it.

10. Lips, tints, nails, fillers, clothes shoes 

11. designer gyms (David Lloyd etc)

12. booze, fags, drugs etc 

 

Actually that list is full of stuff people reach for to make themselves feel better when they feel ****; I wonder what that says about the mental fortitude / minerals of people today.

People just had a different, harder and less expectant mindset back in the 70’s and 80’s. 

 

 

[Yellow Bear]

2 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

does not mean genuine poverty does not exist.

You a probably quite correct, but it does not exist to the level the left wing and MSM would try to have us believe, and not to the level it existed even 50 years ago.  However, being, as I suspect, of the entitled generation you will probably poo-poo this as rubbish.

[Mungler]

It’s either in you or it isn’t. I earn well enough but if I have to go into a chain coffee shop I’ll go to a Cafe Nero and have nothing more exotic than a flat white and I’ll get my card stamped. I wont go to a car wash whilst I have kids at home who can do it and earn pocket money. If it’s out of date in the fridge it gets the sniff and taste test before being thrown.

Don’t get me wrong, I am the king of wasting money, just not on that stuff.

[oowee]

We are a supposed to be a prosperous growing economy. We have some parts, some institutions, some areas of expertise where Britain is simply the best of the best. The British people are hardly different from others. Why then can we not expect our children to be better off that we were. It comes down to the way the country has been so poorly managed. 

 

[Mungler]

4 minutes ago, oowee said:

We are a supposed to be a prosperous growing economy. We have some parts, some institutions, some areas of expertise where Britain is simply the best of the best. The British people are hardly different from others. Why then can we not expect our children to be better off that we were. It comes down to the way the country has been so poorly managed. 

 

It’s what you measure. Compared to the 70’s and 80’s the generation today will have an expectation of living to 100 and will have a greater disposable income.

If anyone wants more or better, it’s going to be down to them to do something about it, not a government.

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Mungler

[welsh1]

I spent far to much time not so long ago listening to members of the younger generation shouting at me that the debt they were in wasn't their fault, while i looked around at the 50 inch tv, the x-box/playstation, a couple of high end phones, the flash car on finance on the drive and the house done out like a show house all on lots and lots of tick, there is a generation of want it nows, we saved for the first washing machine, sofa etc, a lot was second hand, we worked and saved to get anything, and as things got better we improved things, got a better car etc, my wife and me worked hard to raise our kids and made lots of sacrifices along the way.

I look at those just starting out and they want a huge wedding and a house done like a fairytale with a flash car immediatly, and while i don't begrudge anyone nice things don't bleat you are in difficulties because interest rates went up 0.1% and you are struggling to repay all that tick.