Smart meter?

[old man]

On 15/04/2023 at 15:57, TIGHTCHOKE said:

What exactly do you fear from a Smart Meter?

I have one, I only pay for whatever gas or electricity I use.

I never over pay.

In the OLD days, when you gave your own meter readings or even further back a chap knocked the door. Then if you were out or couldn't be bothered the company imposed an "ESTIMATED" reading.

You can change suppliers at any point depending upon what you have agreed in your contract with the supplier.

 

I bet you old boys still believe it is better to build up a credit through the good weather!

Get real, welcome to the 21st century.

 

Go on, please enlighten me as to what you perceive the problems to be..................................

Possibly their ability to sever your supply at will?

[discobob]

42 minutes ago, old man said:

Possibly their ability to sever your supply at will?

There is actually laws in place which means they can't come round and disconnect your meter. However, if you have a smart meter, they can switch you over to a prepayment meter and if you can't afford that - Well, it isn't their fault - they haven't cut you off - you have chosen to do that yourself.

There was a lot that happened the other month that caused outrage

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64331449

 

[samboy]

I've had 2 smart meters for a few years now with no trouble. Although they did text me twice to send my meter readings in.

I never bothered.

[Good shot?]

I do not want a Smart meter fitted, however I have just received an email from British Gas giving me a date and time that their engineers will visit to fit my (not requested) Smart meter.

What happened to them asking me if I wanted one at all?

 

 

Just now gone into my account and cancelled the visit.

Will see what happens now!

Edited June 7, 2023 by Good shot?

[old man]

2 hours ago, Good shot? said:

I do not want a Smart meter fitted, however I have just received an email from British Gas giving me a date and time that their engineers will visit to fit my (not requested) Smart meter.

What happened to them asking me if I wanted one at all?

 

 

Just now gone into my account and cancelled the visit.

Will see what happens now!

Same here including the free fitting of an electric meter if the old one was not compatible with their new fit? The advice I was given is to reply that if my gas meter needs replacing on safety grounds this is obviously permissible but the meter must be replaced as per the original only, ie not smart.

Have not replied yet as not impressed with the tactic.

[oldypigeonpopper]

2 hours ago, old man said:

Same here including the free fitting of an electric meter if the old one was not compatible with their new fit? The advice I was given is to reply that if my gas meter needs replacing on safety grounds this is obviously permissible but the meter must be replaced as per the original only, ie not smart.

Have not replied yet as not impressed with the tactic.

They want to change my gas meter , the building is about 15 years old , how many years do the run before a change to a new one , this is British gas but with EDF on bills

Edited June 7, 2023 by oldypigeonpopper

[Stonepark]

Reject "smart" meters for 5 reasons

1 They allow remote load shedding (i.e. switching you off and on as they please) should a market issue take place and which was feared may be needed last winter.

2 They can remotely disconnect you without notice

3 They can remotely change your tariff without your consent

4 Smart meter and remote unit uses more energy than a dumb meter and costs you more

5 They can monitor your energy use, although at present this data is not being used to a significant degree

Edited June 8, 2023 by Stonepark

[Jaymo]

45 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

Reject "smart" meters for 5 reasons

1 They allow remote load shedding (i.e. switching you off and on as they please) should a market issue take place and which was feared may be needed last winter.

2 They can remotely disconnect you without notice

3 They can remotely change your tariff without your consent

4 Smart meter and remote unit uses more energy than a dumb meter and costs you more

5 They can monitor your energy use, although at present this data is not being used to a significant degree

Really. May I suggest some further research is in order, except for point number 4, but the draw is minimal as is your cordless phone or broadband router! 

[JohnfromUK]

31 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

They allow remote load shedding (i.e. switching you off and on as they please) should a market issue take place and which was feared may be needed last winter.

That is/can be/would be done at substation level, not to individual meters, so large areas go off together.  It is not done on a meter by meter basis and no current plans to do so.  In theory it is technically possible.

35 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

They can remotely disconnect you without notice

Technically possible but not legally allowed - see here https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-5288783/Can-energy-firm-use-smart-meter-cut-off.html

36 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

They can remotely change your tariff without your consent

Just as can be done with a normal meter where the tariff is applied after counting the units.  The meter (smart or otherwise) counts 'units' used and the cost is applied in the billing process (as on a normal meter).  Where variable tariffs are chosen as the billing method, then the smart meter can record the additional 'time  of unit usage' to give you (for example) higher rates at peak times and lower rates at low demand times.  That is similar to a present Economy 7 type tariff but more flexible. 

40 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

Smart meter and remote unit uses more energy than a dumb meter and costs you more

Not true.  The smart meter draws the (very low) amount of power it uses from the 'pre metered side' and so it is not added to your bill.

41 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

They can monitor your energy use, although at present this data is not being used to a significant degree

True, they can see how much you are using and when you are using it.

It is entirely up to you whether you have a smart meter or not.  But do check the facts when making up your mind.  It is possible (I haven't checked lately) that you may get a better price per unit on flexible tariffs that are only available to those with smart meters fitted.

[Jaymo]

41 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

 

Not true.  The smart meter draws the (very low) amount of power it uses from the 'pre metered side' and so it is not added to your bill.

 

In addition to my post, was referring to the minimal draw of the display unit as I believe John is correct in that the meter power is on the incoming supply. 

[discobob]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

Technically possible but not legally allowed - see here https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-5288783/Can-energy-firm-use-smart-meter-cut-off.html

Buuut - technically they can switch you to a pre-payment plan - and if you can't afford to pre-pay then you cut yourself off (in their eyes anyway) - been a bit of a furor over this happening....

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, discobob said:

Buuut - technically they can switch you to a pre-payment plan - and if you can't afford to pre-pay then you cut yourself off (in their eyes anyway) - been a bit of a furor over this happening....

Technically they can - just as technically with an old style meter you could be placed on a 'pre paid' type of tariff.  But legally they can't.  They have to engage with you.  There has been concern over this - just as there has always been concern that you could be cut off.  The only difference with 'smart' meters is that more can technically' be done remotely.  One point is that with a 'smart' arrears can be detected earlier - and so people can be engaged with to minimise risk of big arrears building up unseen.

Bottom line is that everyone must pay for electricity - and smart meters can (again technically) identify those having problems earlier and allow for social services (for genuine hardship arrears) or engineers/police (for illegal meter tampering/bypassing/safety) action.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

And if you pay your bill and use the energy responsibly you have nothing to worry about!   

[discobob]

11 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Technically they can - just as technically with an old style meter you could be placed on a 'pre paid' type of tariff.  But legally they can't.  They have to engage with you.  There has been concern over this - just as there has always been concern that you could be cut off.  The only difference with 'smart' meters is that more can technically' be done remotely.  One point is that with a 'smart' arrears can be detected earlier - and so people can be engaged with to minimise risk of big arrears building up unseen.

Bottom line is that everyone must pay for electricity - and smart meters can (again technically) identify those having problems earlier and allow for social services (for genuine hardship arrears) or engineers/police (for illegal meter tampering/bypassing/safety) action.

it isn't technically - BG done it

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jan/18/british-gas-vows-to-halt-remote-switches-of-customers-to-prepayment-meters

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, discobob said:

it isn't technically - BG done it

Switching to pre paid has always been done - with both smart and traditional non smart meters.  BG have said they won't be doing it 'remotely' in the future;

This is from the link you posted "British Gas has now said that would not happen to its customers and it would introduce extra checks to find out if customers were vulnerable and needing support to prevent them being cut off from energy supplies."

They have also said (same article)-  "However, it did not commit to halting the forced installation of prepayment meters in person. Energy firms say this tactic is a last resort and a method of preventing large amounts of debt from being built up." - which is right as energy has to be paid for.

As I said above - a smart meter helps identify the problems earlier - this is again from the link you posted "It will also encourage customers using older “dumb” meters to move on to smart prepayment meters, meaning problems can be identified and support provided more quickly."  There are also better ways in which support can be done "The company’s prepayment customers will receive up to £250 of “non-repayable” credit if they are struggling. British Gas said it would identify those who would most benefit and there was no need for customers to apply."

As I said earlier in this thread - it is (normally) up to everyone to decide whether to go smart or not - and the choice should be based on FACTS not internet rumours about things than may be technically possible - but are not legal.  After all - it has always been 'technically possible' for the supply company to simply come and 'snip the cables' to cut you off.  The have done it very rarely when there is a dangerous situation such as actual or risks of fires, explosions etc.  I believe it was done to a local 'cannabis farm' where there was a dangerous fire risk recently.

In theory - smart meters can save some people money by enabling time variable tariffs so that power hungry things like charging cars can be done at night on low rates.  They may not be wanted by everyone - but may help others - but make your choice on the facts.

[Sprinter]

A few years ago my electric meter was intermittently buzzing. If it happened at night it was loud enough to keep you awake. I asked, pleaded and begged at the time to have it switched out but all fell on deaf ears.

Now I am being bombarded by emails texts and calls telling me I HAVE to switch my meter for a smart meter immediately if not before. Well guess what, they can whistle in the wind...

 

Original buzzing noise was solved by giving It a darn good whack with the head of a broom 2am one morning a while back. Not a peep has been heard from it since!

[Ttfjlc]

It is true they could monitor your usage and know when you’re using the most electricity because they’re reading the meter every half an hour so….ask for it to be read daily/weekly/monthly and just like that the issue is null & void. 
 

The puzzling one for me is how folk come to the conclusion that a smart meter charges more? I remember before the big price hikes smart meter tariffs were cheaper than standard tariffs to entice you to have one, or it could be like most cases when I looked into it that the customer had been under-estimated, rather than submit a reading they’d let it go on then when a smart meter was fitted the final reading from the old meter is sent thus bringing all those unpaid units to the fore, these would be then added to the monthly direct debits to be paid back cue the moaning because bills had gone up  

Smart meters aren’t for everybody but they certainly opened a lot of customer’s eyes to where their money was going, “my hot tub is only £2 a day but I’m paying a fortune, where is the rest of my money going?!” “Try £5 a day for the hot tub” “no the guy told me it was £2” “you mean the guy who got a nice commission? Trust me, it’s £5”  

Here’s another good one I had with a customer, “geez that thing is on red?!” “Someone is using the shower, £1.24 per hour for that” “it’s ok it’s my wife, she’s only in it for 10 minutes a day like the rest of us” “how many are in the household sir?” “6” “that’s nearly £40 a month then when you add the vat for the shower alone” “oh….” 
 

I know some folk will say, “well they should be more mindful of where their money goes, you don’t need a smart meter for that,” this is true, but then you find out from these smart meter sceptics they’re still on Economy 7, ‘for the cheap rate’ yet when I point out they need to use at least 40% of their consumption at night to make it pay I’d get the classic, “it’s ok young man, I put the washing machine on overnight twice a week” yep that’ll do it 😆

 

[Robden]

My "not so smart" meters are quite dumb. The gas one has never worked and the electric one stopped working a couple of months ago. My neighbours meters have also stopped working.  Shell energy are looking into it, but they can't fix them at the moment for some reason.

[JohnfromUK]

5 hours ago, Ttfjlc said:

then you find out from these smart meter sceptics they’re still on Economy 7, ‘for the cheap rate’ yet when I point out they need to use at least 40% of their consumption at night to make it pay

I have never done the figures, but had economy 7 removed when I gave up the old 'night storage' heaters around 1980.  I have never understood how something could use so much electricity, but give out so little heat!

I am not particularly comfortable with the idea of things like tumbler driers running whilst I sleep.  I know personally of two instances of fires from tumbler driers and mine has a smoke alarm in the room and I try and only use it when I'm in and awake.

Edited June 9, 2023 by JohnfromUK

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Smart Meter Fear or SMF is everywhere!   

 

I too would not use either the dishwasher, washing machine and more importantly the tumble dryer at night or when I am not at home.  

 

I pay for exactly what I use, can monitor what I am using and another simple benefit is by having the display at my work station I know exactly when the toaster, microwave or airfryer have completed their respective cycles.  

[Ttfjlc]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

I have never done the figures, but had economy 7 removed when I gave up the old 'night storage' heaters around 1980.  I have never understood how something could use so much electricity, but give out so little heat!

I am not particularly comfortable with the idea of things like tumbler driers running whilst I sleep.  I know personally of two instances of fires from tumbler driers and mine has a smoke alarm in the room and I try and only use it when I'm in and awake.

Good ol’ storage heaters, one of the least efficient forms of heating known to man!

Tumble dryers are associated with fires just like washing machines are associated with floods, I had several customers over the years who stopped using their washing machines in the night when waking up to soaked carpets & flooring.

46 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I pay for exactly what I use, can monitor what I am using and another simple benefit is by having the display at my work station I know exactly when the toaster, microwave or airfryer have completed their respective cycles.  

I remember one older gentleman who had his display near the front door, he said he would glance at it when leaving the house to make sure he hadn’t left anything on, he said that on more than one occasion he’d left the cooker on.

[udderlyoffroad]

3 hours ago, Ttfjlc said:

I remember one older gentleman who had his display near the front door, he said he would glance at it when leaving the house to make sure he hadn’t left anything on, he said that on more than one occasion he’d left the cooker on.

Ok, I'm stealing that idea!

3 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I too would not use either the dishwasher, washing machine and more importantly the tumble dryer at night or when I am not at home.

Clean out your lint filter people.  Before every use.  Makes good average firelighting material.

3 hours ago, Ttfjlc said:

I had several customers over the years who stopped using their washing machines in the night when waking up to soaked carpets & flooring.

What kind of heathen has carpet in his utility room?!  You must be spoiling your domestic staff!

[Ttfjlc]

1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

What kind of heathen has carpet in his utility room?!  You must be spoiling your domestic staff!

Unfortunately not me as I’m just a commoner! 🙂 

[Bigbob]

WE got a smart meter installed so the Mrs could monitor our elccy usage it has never worked since it was installed the guy that installed it said the internets no working with them 

[JohnfromUK]

43 minutes ago, Bigbob said:

 the guy that installed it said the internets no working with them 

They don't in fact use the internet;  "Smart meters use an entirely separate, bespoke wireless system."  which is a quote from this article.  https://www.smartenergygb.org/faqs/how-do-smart-meters-work

I have heard several cases of blaming the internet by the installers and it isn't true.