Non fault accident

[TOPGUN749]

Someone hit the back of my car in 2016, I claimed from their insurance,had it repaired at main Skoda dealers,(my choice),the cost was over £2000 for new tailgate,bumper and floor panel. I didn’t see an increase in my premium either! Had a hire car too at their expense.Obviously informed my insurance company,though it’s all on a database these days I expect.

[marsh man]

Maybe going off the target a bit , but can tell me after these cars have been in a accident no matter whose fault it was , do they get a Cat put on them ? and not knowing much about selling cars the ones I have looked at always seem a lot cheaper with a Cat of some sort than the ones that have got a clean bill of health , so if you owned a motor that have been involved in a crash and it wasn't your fault , would you be the loser when it came to selling your car with a Cat slapped on it ?.  THANKS     MM

[TOPGUN749]

2 hours ago, marsh man said:

Maybe going off the target a bit , but can tell me after these cars have been in a accident no matter whose fault it was , do they get a Cat put on them ? and not knowing much about selling cars the ones I have looked at always seem a lot cheaper with a Cat of some sort than the ones that have got a clean bill of health , so if you owned a motor that have been involved in a crash and it wasn't your fault , would you be the loser when it came to selling your car with a Cat slapped on it ?.  THANKS     MM

A car doesn’t get a category unless it’s an insurance write off generally speaking,and even then it may not be structural,simply cosmetic damage that is too expensive to repair professionally.There are some bargains available at under half the usual price on repaired cars.My nephew bought a Suzuki Swift 4x4  5 years old ,29,000 miles for £3,300.(category N) An equivalent model without the category would have been around £8,000. Was a brilliant buy,and passes every mot.

Edited May 23, 2023 by TOPGUN749

[Rewulf]

55 minutes ago, marsh man said:

Maybe going off the target a bit , but can tell me after these cars have been in a accident no matter whose fault it was , do they get a Cat put on them ? and not knowing much about selling cars the ones I have looked at always seem a lot cheaper with a Cat of some sort than the ones that have got a clean bill of health , so if you owned a motor that have been involved in a crash and it wasn't your fault , would you be the loser when it came to selling your car with a Cat slapped on it ?.  THANKS     MM

If your car is a total loss, as in written off, there are catagories ranging from cat A =Straight to the crusher, B = Some parts may be removed, but still crusher bound.

Basically to ensure that these A and B cars never get back on the road.

Then there is  S and N cats, these cars can be repaired and returned to road use if economical to do so , with S needing more specialised repairs, like body alignment ect , and N being the replacement of minor parts, both S and N will appear on the logbook as required .

There is a registry of damage completed kept by the insurance companies (if they have paid out) called Vcar, you wont usually be privy to this information.

Its not always so straightforward , the car may have undisclosed damage , or damage that hasnt been recorded and repaired by non approved repairers , this doesnt mean the repair is 'bad' , but there will be no record.

I recently did some cosmetic work on a BMW 2 series before it went back under its lease agreement, a BMW lease no less , from new , the leasee was shown by myself that the car had had a new rear quarter fitted , fairly major panel replacement, he had no knowledge of it , it wasnt the greatest of repairs either, but  it was clear that the work had been done before he had taken delivery of his brand new £35000 car.

[marsh man]

1 hour ago, TOPGUN749 said:

A car doesn’t get a category unless it’s an insurance write off generally speaking,and even then it may not be structural,simply cosmetic damage that is too expensive to repair professionally.There are some bargains available at under half the usual price on repaired cars.My nephew bought a Suzuki Swift 4x4  5 years old ,29,000 miles for £3,300.(category N) An equivalent model without the category would have been around £8,000. Was a brilliant buy,and passes every mot.

 

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

If your car is a total loss, as in written off, there are catagories ranging from cat A =Straight to the crusher, B = Some parts may be removed, but still crusher bound.

Basically to ensure that these A and B cars never get back on the road.

Then there is  S and N cats, these cars can be repaired and returned to road use if economical to do so , with S needing more specialised repairs, like body alignment ect , and N being the replacement of minor parts, both S and N will appear on the logbook as required .

There is a registry of damage completed kept by the insurance companies (if they have paid out) called Vcar, you wont usually be privy to this information.

Its not always so straightforward , the car may have undisclosed damage , or damage that hasnt been recorded and repaired by non approved repairers , this doesnt mean the repair is 'bad' , but there will be no record.

I recently did some cosmetic work on a BMW 2 series before it went back under its lease agreement, a BMW lease no less , from new , the leasee was shown by myself that the car had had a new rear quarter fitted , fairly major panel replacement, he had no knowledge of it , it wasnt the greatest of repairs either, but  it was clear that the work had been done before he had taken delivery of his brand new £35000 car.

Many THANKS for the imformation , something I have always avoided when looking for another motor and now I know it is nothing to worry about .

If I did happen to buy one that had been in a minor accident , would I need to mention it on a insurance quote ? , and if I had to , would it affect the price ?

Thanks again for your advice 

[Rewulf]

22 minutes ago, marsh man said:

Many THANKS for the imformation , something I have always avoided when looking for another motor and now I know it is nothing to worry about .

In my experience , very few cars , lets say over 5 years old, have NOT had a small accident , 99% of the time I can detect where paintwork has been done, usually this has been done out of any recordable scenario, its only when insurance companies get involved that there is a record.
Largely , this is nothing to worry about, look for uneven gaps in bumpers , bonnets doors ect, which can mean a panel replacement or repair, obviously poorly matched colours , and imperfections in paint finishes are tell tale signs.

22 minutes ago, marsh man said:

If I did happen to buy one that had been in a minor accident , would I need to mention it on a insurance quote ? , and if I had to , would it affect the price ?

The insurance company will know whats been recorded in the cars history, but again , in my experience, they dont tell you this when you insure, they tend to wait until there is a total loss payout, and then inform you that the value is less because of something that may have happened previously.

Generally speaking , when you buy the car , take careful note of the front of the logbook , where it will mention previous N or S cats (this has only been a fairly recent addition).
This should affect the price IMHO , but dealers can be cagey about producing the logbook until the absolute end of the deal, often after money has changed hands.

Using companies like Equifax or the AA to vet the car first , will show this up , but that costs money , on a car you might not even buy.

[marsh man]

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

In my experience , very few cars , lets say over 5 years old, have NOT had a small accident , 99% of the time I can detect where paintwork has been done, usually this has been done out of any recordable scenario, its only when insurance companies get involved that there is a record.
Largely , this is nothing to worry about, look for uneven gaps in bumpers , bonnets doors ect, which can mean a panel replacement or repair, obviously poorly matched colours , and imperfections in paint finishes are tell tale signs.

The insurance company will know whats been recorded in the cars history, but again , in my experience, they dont tell you this when you insure, they tend to wait until there is a total loss payout, and then inform you that the value is less because of something that may have happened previously.

Generally speaking , when you buy the car , take careful note of the front of the logbook , where it will mention previous N or S cats (this has only been a fairly recent addition).
This should affect the price IMHO , but dealers can be cagey about producing the logbook until the absolute end of the deal, often after money has changed hands.

Using companies like Equifax or the AA to vet the car first , will show this up , but that costs money , on a car you might not even buy.

Brilliant , Many thanks for the detailed reply 

[Nublue 22]

Well all I can say is let's hope it goes well, but? Jan 2022 no fault accident myself. The blok was a  top man, it's my fault ect ect. Two. Weeks  later advices buy my insurance company to clam of my insurance they'll then sort it out. Well it's  a fault accident still showing and the man's insurance company have paid my insurance company back, letters of a solicitors saying I owe them money??? As for your car there design to fold up in the rear to protect you, have an independent assessor check it first, before any repairs are stated. I say this as our car was about to be repaired and a child could see it was properly wrecked.i am still trying to sort my probley out 16 months later. , Sorry, good luck. 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Nublue 22
Missed somthing.

[Lloyd90]

1 hour ago, Nublue 22 said:

Well all I can say is let's hope it goes well, but? Jan 2022 no fault accident myself. The blok was a  top man, it's my fault ect ect. Two. Weeks  later advices buy my insurance company to clam of my insurance they'll then sort it out. Well it's  a fault accident still showing and the man's insurance company have paid my insurance company back, letters of a solicitors saying I owe them money??? As for your car there design to fold up in the rear to protect you, have an independent assessor check it first, before any repairs are stated. I say this as our car was about to be repaired and a child could see it was properly wrecked.i am still trying to sort my probley out 16 months later. , Sorry, good luck. 

Liability already sorted.
 

He phone his insurance and admitted fault straight away. 

His insurance company within an hour on phone admitting fault and offering to pay. 
 

Gone with my own insurance who have said no excess and no dent on no claims as they have sorted between them both already and other side admits fault. 
 

Got my courtesy car although not had my car collected for assessment / repair just yet. 

[ShootingEgg]

On 20/05/2023 at 09:34, holloway said:

My premium has not gone up at all as I was not at fault for the accident why should you be out of pocket for someone else’s accident?

Just had my renewal through and they now state that even if you are not at fault it could go up if something happens 

[holloway]

1 hour ago, ShootingEgg said:

Just had my renewal through and they now state that even if you are not at fault it could go up if something happens 

That’s a ****** and unfair.

[button]

15 hours ago, ShootingEgg said:

Just had my renewal through and they now state that even if you are not at fault it could go up if something happens 

Mine went up, apparently even though the car was parked and I was not it, I'm a higher risk as I'm not parking with enough care🤔

[RCB56]

I was hit back in 2020 while parked, I notified my insurance to cover myself but did NOT claim as I stuck the loose trim back down. Yet on the next renewal they wanted to increase my policy so I told my insurance provider NO thank you and left for a cheaper price. Yes I told the new provider about the incident.

[scouser]

Same thing happened to me, other party’s insurance company was in touch before I reached home, everything went ok until they decided it was a uneconomical repair ( mines a 1996 Toyota surf manual gearbox) we where at odds over couple hundred quid, they wouldn’t budge, got in touch with my insurance, who provided me a Brand New top of the range shogun which I had for 10 weeks (10 mls on the clock and 3.5 k when it went back) ended up with what I wanted cash wise, bought it back and got it fixed up myself, for half of what I got off them.

[Lloyd90]

On 31/05/2023 at 09:39, scouser said:

Same thing happened to me, other party’s insurance company was in touch before I reached home, everything went ok until they decided it was a uneconomical repair ( mines a 1996 Toyota surf manual gearbox) we where at odds over couple hundred quid, they wouldn’t budge, got in touch with my insurance, who provided me a Brand New top of the range shogun which I had for 10 weeks (10 mls on the clock and 3.5 k when it went back) ended up with what I wanted cash wise, bought it back and got it fixed up myself, for half of what I got off them.

Bloke at the garage reckons it may well be written off, he said he’s seen cars written off for less 😬 

They've (finally) picked it up and taken it off for assessment. 

[Lloyd90]

Right so they have supposedly declared my car a “total loss”. 
 

Obviously not worth repairing for the cost. 
 

Issue I have now is that they have valued it at £7870, when they’re going for well over £9000 on auto-trader etc. 

 

The company that’s emailed me to say it’s a write off and the value is a separate company again!! 
 

Feels like being passed from pillar to post. 

[oowee]

52 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Right so they have supposedly declared my car a “total loss”. 
 

Obviously not worth repairing for the cost. 
 

Issue I have now is that they have valued it at £7870, when they’re going for well over £9000 on auto-trader etc. 

 

The company that’s emailed me to say it’s a write off and the value is a separate company again!! 
 

Feels like being passed from pillar to post. 

Argue your case there is always room for negotiation. They know you want the money and you know they are racking up costs haggling with you so there is a bargain to be struck.

@Rewulf I would be interested to know if the value of the loan car counts towards the right off value of the damaged car? IE the more it costs to loan a car the less is available to repair the crashed vehicle? I was loaned a large VW 4x4 and the costs for the loan car far exceeded the £2500 repair costs on my CRV. It would not take long for the value of the loan car to make repairing the damaged vehicle uneconomic.

[Rewulf]

4 minutes ago, oowee said:

Rewulf I would be interested to know if the value of the loan car counts towards the right off value of the damaged car? IE the more it costs to loan a car the less is available to repair the crashed vehicle? I was loaned a large VW 4x4 and the costs for the loan car far exceeded the £2500 repair costs on my CRV. It would not take long for the value of the loan car to make repairing the damaged vehicle uneconomic

The loan car costs don't really come into the equation of repair costs , or total loss payouts.

The total claim when all costs are presented to the other parties insurer, can often be many times more than the value of your car.

I've seen 6 months of car hire , at premium rates, like £100 + per day, whilst insurers wrangle over fault or repairs, occasionally an unavailable repair part can hold up the job for months , while non fault claimants are legally entitled to a like for like loan vehicle.

Then we get into personal injury territory , and it gets really interesting 🤔 

[London Best]

6 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

Issue I have now is that they have valued it at £7870, when they’re going for well over £9000 on auto-trader etcFeels like being passed from pillar to post. 

If that £9000 plus is retail at a dealer then no dealer would be likely to give you even £7870 for yours to buy in. It has maybe been valued at a mid price point between retail value and buy in price. 
 

Good luck with the outcome, I am very sorry for your predicament.

[Lloyd90]

30 minutes ago, London Best said:

If that £9000 plus is retail at a dealer then no dealer would be likely to give you even £7870 for yours to buy in. It has maybe been valued at a mid price point between retail value and buy in price. 
 

Good luck with the outcome, I am very sorry for your predicament.

That’s the thing, I’m not looking to sell it to a dealer. 
 

I’m looking to buy one off a dealer, and I’m sure that same dealer would be happy to charge well over £9,000 to sell the same one they gave you £7.8k for. 

[London Best]

Just now, Lloyd90 said:

That’s the thing, I’m not looking to sell it to a dealer. 
 

I’m looking to buy one off a dealer, and I’m sure that same dealer would be happy to charge well over £9,000 to sell the same one they gave you £7.8k for. 

Welcome to the motor trade.

[Lloyd90]

12 minutes ago, London Best said:

Welcome to the motor trade.

Aye but I’m pretty sure the insurance has to give me the money to replace my car like for like. 
 

I’ll tell them to find me the same car, same spec, and milage etc for the money they offered… 

Already raised a complaint with them they said I can send example of what they are going for and argue it. 

[Bobba]

1 hour ago, Lloyd90 said:

Aye but I’m pretty sure the insurance has to give me the money to replace my car like for like. 
 

I’ll tell them to find me the same car, same spec, and milage etc for the money they offered… 

Already raised a complaint with them they said I can send example of what they are going for and argue it. 

Some years back a mate had the same problem over his VW caravanette. He was able to find either from original or current advertising material (I forget which), statements to the effect that “in the  event of an accident we will put you back in to the position you were in immediately prior to that accident.” (Indeed, that used to be one of the underlying principles of insurance cover) So he merely copied their words back to them and asked them to honour their word. He is still running around in the replacement vehicle. Whether they found it or paid for one he found I do not recall.

so, it may be worth 5 mins trawling your insurers website and docs to see if they make similar statements 

[ph5172]

As you have already done you can make representations. 
As an alternative you could fire back and say you are willing to explore the option of them sourcing you a car of the same spec and similar mileage and see what they come back with

[GingerCat]

2 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

Aye but I’m pretty sure the insurance has to give me the money to replace my car like for like. 
 

I’ll tell them to find me the same car, same spec, and milage etc for the money they offered… 

Already raised a complaint with them they said I can send example of what they are going for and argue it. 

I have to read thru this since I last posted but I'm pretty sure I said find a few cars (3-5) same make, spec etc as yours (or worse) at a higher value so when they say here's a tenner you can  push back and say actually your well short there and here's my evidence. That's not taking onto account what value you insured yours for (they won't pay more if you said 8k but now want 9) or have a fixed value