SNP to ban sale of homes with gas boilers installed?

[serrac]

In a sane world this would be political suicide.
I wonder what plans they have to upgrade the energy infrastructure to support all these heat-pumps along with millions of EVs.

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/patrick-harvie-planning-penalise-millions-30532167

[ditchman]

so they replace gas boilers with heat pumps that are not suited for old badly insulated housing................a heat pump barely holds its own on a modern house...

total stupidity

[Yellow Bear]

Other parties seem to be seeing the writing on the wall after the Uxbridge bye election result obviously the SNP think the green vote is good in Scotland - or is it that the greens are keeping them in power😉

[johnphilip]

It's OK they won't be  in power much longer 

Edited July 24, 2023 by johnphilip

[Yellow Bear]

7 minutes ago, ditchman said:

so they replace gas boilers with heat pumps that are not suited for old badly insulated housing................a heat pump barely holds its own on a modern house...

total stupidity

Even the HP manufacturers are admitting they are no use whatever for older housing stock.

[Mungler]

Ah the rabid Scottish independence movement now get to reap what they have sown. 

It is absolutely hilarious for all of us who saw this coming. That said, I never for one moment thought it would get this bat **** crazy so quickly.

The SNP’s legacy will be 6 figure motor homes, sending male rapists to female prisons, legislating for gender ideology, the loss of the Orkneys and setting fire to Scotland generally (reduced life expectancy and living standards, increase in drug addiction and so on).

Incidentally, surely the people of Scotland recognise the wealth of gas and oil under their feet and on their doorstep - they do know that what the SNP have planned will make them poorer than Guinea Bissau.

😆😆😆😆😆😆
 

Edit

Oh, and don’t forget Wales following up close behind. Brilliant. 

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Mungler

[ditchman]

38 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

Other parties seem to be seeing the writing on the wall after the Uxbridge bye election result obviously the SNP think the green vote is good in Scotland - or is it that the greens are keeping them in power😉

do you remember the days when the SNP were basing their exit of the union on the price of oil...HHhhahhhahhahahhahhahhahaaaaaaaaa.........they were bangin on about their oilfields the reveninue they were going to get...and turn Aberdeen into the New Dallas.............

things dont 'alf change quick....

so please tell me how on gods green earth will they balance the books on their exit ?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

They will never make it work or the books balance.

[discobob]

Next will be the fines for not having ASHP and an EPC of C, then B, then A. 
 

meanwhile you won’t be allowed to sell, and if you can’t afford to do it, you will be allowed to hand over your home to the state (or Blackrock or an equivalent)

YWON - now smile

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

They will never make it work or the books balance.

But they have all the income from Net Zero Fines - whoops - taxes

[Bigbob]

Scotland never voted the greens into power in my memory ?

Wee jimmy didn't have enough seats to get stuff pushed threw so she teamed up with the greens and they have brought a lot of stuff in like stop hunting with dogs etc 

This will ,should end up in the courts you cant stop one person buying there house because its got a gas boiler but let the guy next door buy his 

[discobob]

In fact, I just read the article linked - and I stand by everything I put above and was right about EPC band C….

[Weihrauch17]

I would think it could be legally challenged.

[ditchman]

56 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said:

I would think it could be legally challenged.

that figurers ......the SNP are Mentally challenged to begin with

[Newbie to this]

I think the SNP have ******** Scotland enough and think it is now time for someone else to ****** it some more.

They must be trying to get voted out, Right?

[countryman]

No worse than banning the sale of new Petrol and Diesel cars, we were never asked, we are not being given a choice, just told and we all roll over and accept it.

[Cosmicblue]

Have just replaced our gas boiler (a week ago), I did look really closely at an air source heat pump as there are government grants (https://www.gov.uk/apply-boiler-upgrade-scheme/what-you-can-get) to support the purchase and installation of such things.

The hidden bit of detail is that they consume expensive electricity to operate AND whilst the water is warmed by the heat pump it still needs to have it's temperature increased to be tap/radiator temperature.   Some installers said 'try to forget radiators and go for under-floor heating where possible'.

[JohnfromUK]

2 hours ago, Cosmicblue said:

I did look really closely at an air source heat pump

About 6 years ago now - I re-plumbed and re-wired the whole house - a once in 50 years event!  I did a lot of research, the alternatives (to condensing gas) being;

1. Wood/woodchip/pellet
2. Heatpump, either air of ground sourced

Whilst not an 'unlimited' budget, as part of a big update, at a push - any could have been afforded, but that had to be justified in running costs over a period (10 years plus).  It was a 'no brainer' then that gas was the winner.  The house is old and quite large, but relatively well insulated for an old house.  Heating load is around 35 to 40 KW.  The old heating was gas (condensing) by a 28 year old boiler of 25 KW a - one of the first condensing boilers and a more recent one of 12 KW and normal radiators.

The snags were simply that although a heatpump did give somewhere between 2.5 and 3.5 KW out for every KW of electricity, a KW of electricity was 3 x the price of a KW of gas.  I knew then of two (air sources) heatpump installations - and both had become horrendously expensive to repair when a few years old - and parts/competent engineers were hard to get.  Ground sourced was ruled out due to numerous (listed) trees and tree roots.  There was no doubt that a heatpump was going to be more expensive to install and more (unless price differentials moved a lot) expensive to run - and probably less reliable and more expensive to maintain.

Wood/chip/pellet was impractical due to space needed and the need (ideally) for a 'thermal store'.  I friend whom has one is overall very pleased with it - but he has much more space - and does occasionally have very expensive repairs needed to the (pellet) stoking system.

I don't believe that the basic 'economics' have changed much as the differential between gas and electricity is still around 3 to 3.5 to 1 (although both cost a lot more).

[udderlyoffroad]

1 hour ago, countryman said:

No worse than banning the sale of new Petrol and Diesel cars, we were never asked, we are not being given a choice, just told and we all roll over and accept it.

I'm not so sure.  The pundits are pretty much in agreement the ULEZ cost Labour Uxbridge, and net zero is rocketing up the list of issues voters care about.

31 minutes ago, Cosmicblue said:

The hidden bit of detail is that they consume expensive electricity to operate AND whilst the water is warmed by the heat pump it still needs to have it's its temperature increased to be tap/radiator temperature.   Some installers said 'try to forget radiators and go for under-floor heating where possible'.

Not quite.  Literally no-one would be using them if that were the case.  If you want to use your existing radiators, sized for a gas boiler (which runs hotter water temperatures), then yes you might need some additional heat input, or upgrade some of your radiators.

The hot water is plenty hot enough out of the box.  Concerns about legionella aren't particularly relevant to domestic installations, and if you're worried, you can program the immersion to blast on once a week.

18 hours ago, ditchman said:

so they replace gas boilers with heat pumps that are not suited for old badly insulated housing................a heat pump barely holds its own on a modern house...

total stupidity

Tosh.  Literally millions of the bloody things installed in far colder climates than ours work fine.

Problem is

1) Government/Net Zero fanatics see them as a 'drop-in' replacement for gas boilers.  Anyone with half a brain could tell you they won't work like that.

2) Every 'heating engineer' I've ever encountered is a parts-cannon monkey, who picks one of 3 sizes of a boiler, fits that, says "She'll be 'reet"  and collects a fortune from the customer.  Can't do that with a heat pump, you need a properly spec'd heat loss calc to form the basis of a system design.

3) We have stupendous electricity prices caused by no government minister touching Ed Milliband's insane energy policies.

[ditchman]

tell you what is TOSH and that is installing heat pumps in victorian terraced/detached accomindation and pre 70's housing...you can do all yer lardy da calcs ...still wont cut the mustard in the majority of our housing stock

[udderlyoffroad]

I refer you to my "can't see it as a drop-in replacement" comment.   You need to do more than just swap them out and call it good. 

Absolutely no reason UK housing stock couldn't be upgraded with heat pumps, yes even terraces.  The economics are unlikely to stack up well against gas boilers, and more to the point an already present mains gas grid.  Even the environmental benefits are questionable against a clean-burning well serviced gas boiler.

But to those of us off the gas grid, the economics are very different.

And if you think the laws of thermodynamics are all lardy-da, Dr Fludd has a machine you may be interested in....

 

[Ratlegs]

Simples take the boiler out flog it

open the old fire place up, burn tyres and polystyrene at night plenty of plastic about

[Yellow Bear]

1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

The economics are unlikely to stack up well against gas boilers, and more to the point an already present mains gas grid.  Even the environmental benefits are questionable against a clean-burning well serviced gas boiler.

Add to this the fact that in many rural/semi rural areas the electrical grid is inadequate.  We are what might be termed rural but being on the gas grid but never a noticeable lack of gas pressure but during winter months but can guarantee at least one power outage, at peak times, a month.  This is before the urbam/suburban eco idiots get their way.

Before I retired (2013) we used to recon the life of heat pumps was about 6 years before repair costs became unsupportable, less in coastal areas and less still in parts of Cheshire.  This may have improved, as may the efficiency of the units, but still not adequately to support the domestic housing market.

I would also question the given pollution/carbon footprint of wind and solar.

[discobob]

41 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

less still in parts of Cheshire

How come - or are you on about the Salt Mines??

[Yellow Bear]

2 minutes ago, discobob said:

How come - or are you on about the Salt Mines??

 Nail on head  - don't know why now mining has almost stopped in the old way but the ally fins on the units used to "rot" quite quickly.   Salford Quays  had a similar problem on some units.

[harkom]

21 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

They will never make it work or the books balance.

I think that SNP were strong protagonists of the "universal" income policy where the State gives a set allowance to everybody....(ahem, I would suspect that the politicos will be excluded from this deal- in the small print in the footnote to the footnote of the charter.) Easy to balance the books then.?