What happens when we all go electric

[JohnfromUK]

7 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

My step daughter took nine hours to get down to Cornwall in her new company electric car. Previously about four hours in her petrol car.

How is this progress  ?

I have heard so many instances of people having to queue for chargers this summer, and a friend who has an electric and does quite a bit of long distance travel tells me that;

1. It requires planning to identify suitable charge facilities en route
2. The planning is often thwarted. by either demand exceeding supply, or faulty chargers
3. The 'roll out' of chargers is not keeping up with the growth in demand, so queues are worse

I read that this last issue is partly a 'grid' issue, because installing the much greater capacity at service stations requires a heavier duty cable/substation etc, and that can need planning permission.  All this can take many years, and is very costly.  This high cost is reflected in the charges for service station charging power, which apparently are very variable and can be higher that oil based fuels.

I do think that for local running around home - and with a (slow overnight) charger at home - that could be a chink of progress.

 

[Yellow Bear]

Even in our small village we already have an overload problem due to "Grid Capacity" with power drop outs due to overload a weekly occurrence, more so in winter.  There are no plans to increase supply size despite the extra 50 properties either under construction or through planning despite a planning requirement to have charging points.

[Newbie to this]

5 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

Even in our small village we already have an overload problem due to "Grid Capacity" with power drop outs due to overload a weekly occurrence, more so in winter.  There are no plans to increase supply size despite the extra 50 properties either under construction or through planning despite a planning requirement to have charging points.

One can only surmise it's because they know that electric vehicles are not the future.

[Yellow Bear]

Just now, Newbie to this said:

One can only surmise it's because they know that electric vehicles are not the future.

Nor heat pumps as these are even more power hungry.

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

Nor heat pumps as these are even more power hungry.

This /\.

Many country and village properties are fairly high in power requirements;

• They are often larger
• They are often older and less well insulated
• They are often less sheltered and more exposed to the wind and weather
• Possibly more have freezers etc as more home grown produce and shops aren't so convenient.

My house currently has an 80 Amp (16 KW) supply.  I can live with that as long as I don't have electric 'instant' showers etc.  There is enough for a cooker, fridge, freezer, kettle and basin 'instant' water heater.  I have been told (Western Power) that it could be increased to 100 Amp, but not more.

My gas demand is at peak around 55 KW, or the equivalent of 220 Amps to provide the same power by electricity.  To do this by heat pump would need three phase to be installed.  Whilst I accept that heat pumps give about say 2.5 KW out to every KW in, that still needs around 100 Amps minimum (or around 30 Amps per phase 3 phase).

If every house in the village went electric (most are currently gas, a few oil, one heatpump) and you have say one car per household on electricity (most households here currently have 2 or more cars), at a rough guess the electricity delivery to the village would need to go up to 4 or 5 times the current capacity, and many properties would need 3 phase installed (currently I believe two 'domestic' properties have 3 phase, one of heatpump and one for a formerly light industrial workshop). One farm premises also has 3 phase.

There is a MASSIVE gap between where we are now - and what we would need without gas and oil in terms of KW needed against KW that can currently be supplied.

[discobob]

Here is something for you to consider.... "But they won't do that" I will hear some cry

https://www.kiro7.com/news/trending/denver-area-power-company-takes-over-thermostats-thousands-customers/M2MI3M2LGZFEXEI7KLALATWUYU/

From that I can assume that they would do that - and what can they do when we are all electric!!

[old man]

3 hours ago, discobob said:

Here is something for you to consider.... "But they won't do that" I will hear some cry

https://www.kiro7.com/news/trending/denver-area-power-company-takes-over-thermostats-thousands-customers/M2MI3M2LGZFEXEI7KLALATWUYU/

From that I can assume that they would do that - and what can they do when we are all electric!!

The power companies can make as many denials as they want but their overall objective must be total control of their product?

Every organisation or entity strives for total control?

[discobob]

4 hours ago, old man said:

The power companies can make as many denials as they want but their overall objective must be total control of their product?

Every organisation or entity strives for total control?

I was on about government to be honest 

[Weihrauch17]

The Govt's Net Zero policies are totally unaffordable for 95% of the population when we aren't in a cost of living crisis, never mind in one.  Their Johnson era policies have been driven by Carrie, the millionaire woke idiot Zac Goldsmith and a load of Uni Grad SPAD's who haven't the first clue about real life.  Roll on total chaos and no Manufacturing Industry in the UK due to energy costs.  

Edited August 14, 2023 by Weihrauch17

[old man]

10 hours ago, discobob said:

I was on about government to be honest 

Yep, that's certainly true too.

10 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

The Govt's Net Zero policies are totally unaffordable for 95% of the population when we aren't in a cost of living crisis, never mind in one.  Their Johnson era policies have been driven by Carrie, the millionaire woke idiot Zac Goldsmith and a load of Uni Grad SPAD's who haven't the first clue about real life.  Roll on total chaos and no Manufacturing Industry in the UK due to energy costs.  

Yep, coming to a deserted town near us all.

[Duckandswing]

I am a geologist and often work off the beaten track and in remote areas. I often struggle finding fuel for my truck, never mind a charging point. I can carry some Jerry cans with me. I can’t carry a charging pack for my truck. So until they put charging points pretty much everywhere it’ll never work for me.

Also, the truck is leased through work. The only other available electric one at the minute is called a Maxus. It’s significantly more expensive each month, and at an estimated range of 180 miles (no chance) it’s pretty much useless to me.

[discobob]

13 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

Roll on total chaos and no Manufacturing Industry in the UK due to energy costs.  

Sky News Australia had an item about Tasmania - apparently they are having major issues with Energy due to their strategy with companies being unable to do their manufacturing...

Apparently they have gone from being very Energy positive and self sufficient to being energy poor

Edited August 15, 2023 by discobob

[243deer]

6 hours ago, Duckandswing said:

I can carry some Jerry cans with me. I can’t carry a charging pack for my truck. So until they put charging points pretty much everywhere it’ll never work for me.

Just stick a 12kva generator in the back that runs on the same fuel as your truck and you will be able to generate your own electricity in remote places ............

What no one likes saying (and those influencers that do get gagged) is that we need a gradual reduction in world population by 90% .........

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, 243deer said:

What no one likes saying (and those influencers that do get gagged) is that we need a gradual reduction in world population by 90% .........

/\. This (well perhaps not 90%) - but yes - that is the real elephant in the room.

[ditchman]

14 hours ago, 243deer said:

Just stick a 12kva generator in the back that runs on the same fuel as your truck and you will be able to generate your own electricity in remote places ............

What no one likes saying (and those influencers that do get gagged) is that we need a gradual reduction in world population by 90% .........

most people are going to die of stupidity or wokeitus...........no vaccines for that .......................yet

[Stonepark]

15 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

/\. This (well perhaps not 90%) - but yes - that is the real elephant in the room.

Nope.... another stupid green woke WEF theory propagated by the elites to get rid of the masses (those who have less than a million £).

The problem they (and others) don't realise is without the masses they would not be in the position they are.

[derbyduck]

Mabe

Edited August 16, 2023 by derbyduck

[Scully]

I’m not too familiar with heat source pumps to be honest, and can only go off what two people I know have told me. 
The first couple moved back to the UK from France, where they had one installed. They told me it didn’t function when the temp’ got below freezing. I have no idea how long ago this was.
The other is a bloke who had one fitted last year. He’s having nothing but trouble with it apparently, finding it hard to regulate the temperature and constantly having to recall those who fitted it. 
However, I do know an awful lot about insulation, and I can tell you it doesn’t matter what type of mechanism you use to heat your property, nor how cheap it is, if the insulation isn’t up to the job of retaining the heat generated. 
Retro fitting a tradis type insulation system will improve a properties capacity to retain heat, ( anything which improves a traditional build will help to retain heat ) but only if that system includes a ‘lid’. In other words a tradis type ceiling or roof. 
Cold bridging occurs at structural points such as door and window reveals, particularly around lintels, which is where specialist tapes such as Tescon ( Vana ) play their part. 
Forget rock wool, it is next to useless, and loses heat like it’s going out of fashion. Blown Warmcel or Isoflok into tradis type panels are what we used in tradis and passiv , and it is a marvellous system, but you’re talking a major undertaking. 
It’s NOT about generating heat, it’s all about RETAINING heat. 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Scully
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[TRINITY]

Recently got a small electric car as a second vehicle and for my wife to run around in. The range is 200+ miles which is more than enough for the journeys we use it for. It's lovely to drive and great in an urban environment. Plus we have a drive and home charger and I have worked the running cost at 2p per mile. Personally I really like them ,but they have their place and I can understand why others would have issues. 

I would say they are part of the future but not the total solution. 

[amateur]

Just now, TRINITY said:

Recently got a small electric car as a second vehicle and for my wife to run around in. The range is 200+ miles which is more than enough for the journeys we use it for. It's lovely to drive and great in an urban environment. Plus we have a drive and home charger and I have worked the running cost at 2p per mile. Personally I really like them ,but they have their place and I can understand why others would have issues. 

I would say they are part of the future but not the total solution. 

I got one too, under protest, pre-ULEZ (thanks Khan, you 🤬), but am pleasantly surprised with how well it drives and how little it costs to run.

Admittedly, I haven't needed to make use of any public charging points.

[TRINITY]

13 hours ago, amateur said:

I got one too, under protest, pre-ULEZ (thanks Khan, you 🤬), but am pleasantly surprised with how well it drives and how little it costs to run.

 

Yes I was a bit of a sceptic myself till I got in one for a drive. After that there was no going back ,in my opinion the actual driving experience is far better than any conventional vehicle I have driven, and I have had many in my time.