Centrepin Posted September 9, 2023 Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 First review, of the Army's new rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted September 9, 2023 Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 Sticking with 5.56mm, what a complete shchtfest.... this was the chance to move to a more suitable ballistic platform and then evaluate for a few years before the main army SA80's get replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted September 9, 2023 Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 So we are finally moving to an M4 variant. About time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 9, 2023 Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 I like the AR platform, it just needs a round with proper knockdown power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu64 Posted September 9, 2023 Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 well I for one wouldn't want to be hit by a 5.56 round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted September 9, 2023 Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 All so that Thatcher's cronies could get rich. The Enfield site sold to her cronies for, I believe, a sixth of what they then sold it on for as building land once closed and it re-located to Nottingham and the British Army saddled with the SA80. I used to always tell of Jamaica at this point. The Jamaica Regiment got given the SA80 for free but the Jamaica Constabulary who could also have had it for free went an paid cash money for the M16. In fact AFAIK nobody who actually had to pay for it chose the SA80. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted September 9, 2023 Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 (edited) Should this not be in off topic? In my head none of this has anything to do with shooting on a sporting shooting forum. Edited September 9, 2023 by London Best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted September 9, 2023 Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, London Best said: Should this not be in off topic? In my head none of this has anything to do with shooting on a sporting shooting forum. Well not since the same Mrs Thatcher banned civilian ownership of self-loading rifles in the UK it doesn't. Although it'd be nice to see a .22LR version of this same as Bremmer did with the M16 or Unique in France with the FAMARS. Edited September 9, 2023 by enfieldspares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted September 9, 2023 Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 i allways liked the 7.62 nato ball....ticked all the boxes for power and range...body armour is getting better and better..so would make sense going back to 7.62 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted September 9, 2023 Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 It surely doesn't matter what the forces are supplied with when the all powerful woke army will make them scared to fire because of the inevitable blame and enquiries that will follow for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisdom Posted September 9, 2023 Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 51 minutes ago, ditchman said: i allways liked the 7.62 nato ball....ticked all the boxes for power and range...body armour is getting better and better..so would make sense going back to 7.62 Yes the 7.62 slr was a very capable rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted September 9, 2023 Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 10 minutes ago, wisdom said: Yes the 7.62 slr was a very capable rifle. Except the barrel used to bend when it got caught in a HAS doors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted September 9, 2023 Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 53 minutes ago, Brodie said: It surely doesn't matter what the forces are supplied with when the all powerful woke army will make them scared to fire because of the inevitable blame and enquiries that will follow for years. it was said tome a little while ago "we are nothing but armed social workers" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet11-87 Posted September 9, 2023 Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 5.56 is apsolutly fine and a best choice the UK are never gona switch outside of NATO standardisation the US keep looking into it but theyve got the size and money to back it like the recently addopted and then almost instantly unadopted .277 fury. So its a toss up between 5.56 and 7.62 and between the 2 you can carry double the ammount of .5.56 pound for pound, afords the use of lighter built weapons and the average recruit is going to find it easier to make accurate, fast and consistent hits on target with a 5.56. old SLR sweats incoming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrepin Posted September 9, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 3 hours ago, Scully said: I like the AR platform, it just needs a round with proper knockdown power. The thinking behind "knockdown" power is not to kill but to wound. A kill is one man out of a battle. A wound is 3 or 4 men plus. 1 wounded, 2 to carry and maybe 1 to tend. You then have possibly frightened untrained soldiers crying for mummy from the screams of the wounded, puts them off the fight. I think that in a battle for every 5000 rounds fired, 1 man is killed. If it was genuinely knockdown power then the .303 fired from a Mk 4 Lee Enfield was both more accurate and more efficient than the SLR of 7.62. 5.56 tends to tumble inside the body causing huge exit wounds, it can also enter for example in the buttocks and out of the knee. (That was the first bullet wound I saw). But, yes I agree 5.56 doesn't have knockdown power on a human. 2 hours ago, London Best said: Should this not be in off topic? In my head none of this has anything to do with shooting on a sporting shooting forum. It depends on your point of view, is it not the Army's new rifle and therefore a "gun"? I'm sure a moderator will evaluate your opinion and move if needed. 35 minutes ago, Sweet11-87 said: 5.56 is apsolutly fine and a best choice the UK are never gona switch outside of NATO standardisation the US keep looking into it but theyve got the size and money to back it like the recently addopted and then almost instantly unadopted .277 fury. So its a toss up between 5.56 and 7.62 and between the 2 you can carry double the ammount of .5.56 pound for pound, afords the use of lighter built weapons and the average recruit is going to find it easier to make accurate, fast and consistent hits on target with a 5.56. old SLR sweats incoming. Not everyone loved the SLR, by choice I would have used a Bren, in fact I spent a long time as a gimpy man, never was much of a shot with a SLR even having had one fitted correctly to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgemonkey Posted September 9, 2023 Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 Not seeing a bayonet lug though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted September 9, 2023 Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 SS109 is the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 9, 2023 Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 55 minutes ago, Centrepin said: The thinking behind "knockdown" power is not to kill but to wound. A kill is one man out of a battle. A wound is 3 or 4 men plus. 1 wounded, 2 to carry and maybe 1 to tend. You then have possibly frightened untrained soldiers crying for mummy from the screams of the wounded, puts them off the fight. I think that in a battle for every 5000 rounds fired, 1 man is killed. If it was genuinely knockdown power then the .303 fired from a Mk 4 Lee Enfield was both more accurate and more efficient than the SLR of 7.62. 5.56 tends to tumble inside the body causing huge exit wounds, it can also enter for example in the buttocks and out of the knee. (That was the first bullet wound I saw). But, yes I agree 5.56 doesn't have knockdown power on a human. It depends on your point of view, is it not the Army's new rifle and therefore a "gun"? I'm sure a moderator will evaluate your opinion and move if needed. Not everyone loved the SLR, by choice I would have used a Bren, in fact I spent a long time as a gimpy man, never was much of a shot with a SLR even having had one fitted correctly to me. Well not really. I’m meaning knockdown as out of the fight entirely, as in manstopper. There are many instances of .223 ammo and 9mm parabellum doing neither knocking down nor stopping, especially when faced with drugged up adversaries. I agree about the .303, or any .30 cal’ firearm actually, even the 7.62. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrepin Posted September 9, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 Which is why Army and i suspect law keeping forces instruction is given to keep firing untill the treat is unable to respond. I'm not sure about now, but in the early 70s the accepted way to clear a stuck in the barrel 9mm military round was to hold at arms length and fire again. I most certainly wouldn't want to try that with 7.62 or .303😁 1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: SS109 is the answer. Isn't SS109, 5.56 or as near as damm it 223? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 9, 2023 Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, Centrepin said: Which is why Army and i suspect law keeping forces instruction is given to keep firing untill the treat is unable to respond. I once read a report of a female US police officer emptying two double stacked 9mm magazines down a street in the direction of an armed criminal. I’m not saying the round wouldn’t have done the job eventually, but you still have to hit them. She didn’t. Not once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.357shooter Posted September 9, 2023 Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Centrepin said: Which is why Army and i suspect law keeping forces instruction is given to keep firing untill the treat is unable to respond. I'm not sure about now, but in the early 70s the accepted way to clear a stuck in the barrel 9mm military round was to hold at arms length and fire again. I most certainly wouldn't want to try that with 7.62 or .303😁 Isn't SS109, 5.56 or as near as damm it 223? could even be the threat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrepin Posted September 9, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 1 hour ago, .357shooter said: could even be the threat. 🤣🤣even that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted September 9, 2023 Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 4 hours ago, Centrepin said: Which is why Army and i suspect law keeping forces instruction is given to keep firing untill the treat is unable to respond. I'm not sure about now, but in the early 70s the accepted way to clear a stuck in the barrel 9mm military round was to hold at arms length and fire again. I most certainly wouldn't want to try that with 7.62 or .303😁 Isn't SS109, 5.56 or as near as damm it 223? Yes, a cracking round! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr grumpy Posted September 9, 2023 Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 A sergeant once told me,so it must be true.that we kept 7.62 for so long, because it matched the Russian ak 47.🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted September 9, 2023 Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, Mr grumpy said: A sergeant once told me,so it must be true.that we kept 7.62 for so long, because it matched the Russian ak 47.🤔 Lots of thick sergeants around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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