Japanese chefs knives

[Scully]

Any recommendations for the above? I know there are some quality cooks on here and as my son is quietly becoming one, wanted to buy him a good quality knife. TIA. 

[JKD]

The choice of any chef's knives is endless,,,, but for a bit of guidance.......

https://www.foodandwine.com/lifestyle/kitchen/japanese-knife-guide

[GingerCat]

There's many a YouTube video and a few channels dedicated to them. I appreciate a good kitchen knife and have a fair selection sadly not of the Japanese style,  depends on how much you want to pay really and what it will be used for. 

[enfieldspares]

I prefer French knives and a trip over the Channel to a big hypermarket will have a large range of all qualities. Mine are branded as "le Couteau du Chef" so a generic but French made in Thiers knife with stainless blade and black plastic handle held on with three  aluminium rivets and came from Leclerc supermarket at St. Ouen near Paris but most will have such. I doubt any was over 20 Euro. I have had then nine years and they have never let me down and are still very very sharp as they are easy to sharpen if ever needed to do so.

All genuine French as many knives with French or Japanese or German or whatever sounding names aren't! For UK mail order my son when he did his catering course bought from Russum's.

https://www.russums-shop.co.uk/

https://www.russums-shop.co.uk/c/q/knives/all-knives

https://www.couteauxduchef.com/919-couteaux-francais

Edited January 3 by enfieldspares

[markm]

Global. They have their critics but they are the ‘Rolex’ of the knife world for a reason…

[moondoggy]

For a budding chef I would look at German knives like Wusthoff as they are more forgiving on care and sharpening.

Japanese knives are usually much harder and consequently have very brittle edges and require a great deal of skill to sharpen, usually to 15 degrees. Most German knives are 20 degrees due to the softer, more forgiving steel.

I have both Japanese and German knives and feel much more relaxed using the German knives.

My Japanese knives are Yaxell Ran and were much more expensive.

Also worth a look are British company Robert Welch. They use German steel but with Japanese geometry. I have their extra deep Santoku knife and it is my go to knife for vegetable prep work.

[islandgun]

Most importantly for me is fit and comfort. It's hard to work properly with uncomfortable tools

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Have a look here;

https://www.sakutoknives.co.uk/products/samurai-5?currency=GBP&variant=42512315515125&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google Shopping&stkn=4d0dc7017c60&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8be3iIvDgwMVSYBQBh0a9w5LEAQYAiABEgIOefD_BwE

[Svenandolaf]

8 hours ago, moondoggy said:

For a budding chef I would look at German knives like Wusthoff as they are more forgiving on care and sharpening.

Japanese knives are usually much harder and consequently have very brittle edges and require a great deal of skill to sharpen, usually to 15 degrees. Most German knives are 20 degrees due to the softer, more forgiving steel.

I have both Japanese and German knives and feel much more relaxed using the German knives.

My Japanese knives are Yaxell Ran and were much more expensive.

Also worth a look are British company Robert Welch. They use German steel but with Japanese geometry. I have their extra deep Santoku knife and it is my go to knife for vegetable prep work.

What do you recommend to sharpen them with? I have just got some Robert Welsh and Sabatier knives 

[bruno22rf]

I think the sabatier 5 knife block is good value but make sure it's the "professional" badged version. Bought mine for £60 on offer in Asda but you can get then around the £80 mark normally. Very good quality for the price and pigging sharp (cut my finger twice first time I used them)

[JohnfromUK]

A knife (like a shotgun) is a very personal thing - and what one person loves - another may fine unsuited.  Personally, I would give a 'go and find yourself a knife you really like up to £xx and I'll get it for you' offer.

For example, I don't particularly like the Japanese types (not owned one but didn't like the shape/balance when handled), preferring German or French in a rather conventional shape/style, but it is a very personal choice.

[Scully]

Thanks all, plenty to go at there. 👍

[JohnfromUK]

Just one (slightly off topic, but very relevant point) further point that goes with quality knives. 

Cutting surface/board.  If you have a nice knife, you MUST use (and only use) a decent cutting surface.  Anything steel, glass, ceramic, granite will spoil a properly sharp knife.  Those huge antique heirloom stoneware ceramic dishes - or those trendy 1970s stainless meat carving dishes that catch all the juices - spoil the knives on contact - and unless you are very careful, contact will happen.

Get a good wood, or nylon/plastic knife friendly board - and olny ever use the knife on it.  I read that even some bamboo boards have other added binders/fillers that are bad for knives.

[JKD]

34 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Just one (slightly off topic, but very relevant point) further point that goes with quality knives. 

Cutting surface/board.  If you have a nice knife, you MUST use (and only use) a decent cutting surface.  Anything steel, glass, ceramic, granite will spoil a properly sharp knife.  Those huge antique heirloom stoneware ceramic dishes - or those trendy 1970s stainless meat carving dishes that catch all the juices - spoil the knives on contact - and unless you are very careful, contact will happen.

Get a good wood, or nylon/plastic knife friendly board - and olny ever use the knife on it.  I read that even some bamboo boards have other added binders/fillers that are bad for knives.

Great bit of advice 👍 often overlooked item the chopping board.

[ditchman]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

Just one (slightly off topic, but very relevant point) further point that goes with quality knives. 

Cutting surface/board.  If you have a nice knife, you MUST use (and only use) a decent cutting surface.  Anything steel, glass, ceramic, granite will spoil a properly sharp knife.  Those huge antique heirloom stoneware ceramic dishes - or those trendy 1970s stainless meat carving dishes that catch all the juices - spoil the knives on contact - and unless you are very careful, contact will happen.

Get a good wood, or nylon/plastic knife friendly board - and olny ever use the knife on it.  I read that even some bamboo boards have other added binders/fillers that are bad for knives.

i believe bamboo naturally contains a high content of silica

[TIGHTCHOKE]

11 minutes ago, ditchman said:

i believe bamboo naturally contains a high content of silica

Certainly some bamboo contains silica, I believe it is extracted and given as a supplement for hair, skin and bone health

[London Best]

My wife always ruins every one of a set of Sabatier before she requests that I sharpen them.

[bigroomboy]

4 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

Just one (slightly off topic, but very relevant point) further point that goes with quality knives. 

Cutting surface/board.  If you have a nice knife, you MUST use (and only use) a decent cutting surface.  Anything steel, glass, ceramic, granite will spoil a properly sharp knife.  Those huge antique heirloom stoneware ceramic dishes - or those trendy 1970s stainless meat carving dishes that catch all the juices - spoil the knives on contact - and unless you are very careful, contact will happen.

Get a good wood, or nylon/plastic knife friendly board - and olny ever use the knife on it.  I read that even some bamboo boards have other added binders/fillers that are bad for knives.

Can somebody inform my father in law if this. I spend hours sharpening his completely blunt and ruined global knifes only to watch him immediately ruin the edge on any combination of ceramic or steel surfaces. Far more important than the knife is how to use it and how to sharpen it.

Having said that I like global knives. Easy to sharpen and stay sharp well. A choice or European or Japanese styles but expensive.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Yes I like the old original Globals, not keen on their later stuff.

I guess the type of steel was changed.

 

I buy to use and give as presents the cheap thin chopping boards that nobody gets precious about.

Being plastic they do not blunt the knives and are quick and easy to clean.

[islandgun]

17 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Yes I like the old original Globals, not keen on their later stuff.

I guess the type of steel was changed.

 

I buy to use and give as presents the cheap thin chopping boards that nobody gets precious about.

Being plastic they do not blunt the knives and are quick and easy to clean.

The thin plastic boards are great , much easier to transfer the chopped item into a pan, i have sliced through a few but they are cheap so bin them and use the next one

[JohnfromUK]

22 minutes ago, bigroomboy said:

Can somebody inform my father in law if this.

My father was VERY fussy about his knives, carving etc., but he had also grown up in a family with large stoneware meat dishes on which roast meats were served and carved.  he had been taught (by his father) to carve without letting the knife touch whatever the meat was standing on. 

Most people now carve 'downwards' towards the carving board, but my father's technique involved the meat (assuming a rolled type of cut standing 'on end' and held with a fork at 45 degrees into the side.  This meant cutting towards the (left) hand holding the fork and his forks all had hand guards.  It was apparently how Victorians and Edwardians used to carve in their ceramic dishes.  Modern carving forks don't seem to have these.  Photos show the carvers he used (red meat above and 'game' below) and the forks with the guards folded out.  The game carving knife is rather bent now.

[bigroomboy]

6 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

My father was VERY fussy about his knives, carving etc., but he had also grown up in a family with large stoneware meat dishes on which roast meats were served and carved.  he had been taught (by his father) to carve without letting the knife touch whatever the meat was standing on. 

Most people now carve 'downwards' towards the carving board, but my father's technique involved the meat (assuming a rolled type of cut standing 'on end' and held with a fork at 45 degrees into the side.  This meant cutting towards the (left) hand holding the fork and his forks all had hand guards.  It was apparently how Victorians and Edwardians used to carve in their ceramic dishes.  Modern carving forks don't seem to have these.  Photos show the carvers he used (red meat above and 'game' below) and the forks with the guards folded out.  The game carving knife is rather bent now.

Interesting John, thank you for sharing.

[moondoggy]

On 04/01/2024 at 07:31, Svenandolaf said:

What do you recommend to sharpen them with? I have just got some Robert Welsh and Sabatier knives 

If you have the skills and the time a good set of Waterstones and a strop are what the experts use.

I use an I.O.Shen knife wizard which has the required 15 degree geometry. I also use a steel on my Robert Welch every time I use it (never on the Japanese knives).

Your problem is that you have knives with two different edge geometries, I.e. the Sabatier are 20 degree and 15 on the Robert Welch. There are electric sharpeners like the Chef’s Choice 1520 Diamond Hone Angle Select Electric Sharpener, but you will need to splash out around £160 on one. I also have a Tormek whetstone sharpener, but they are stupid money if you are only sharpening knives.

As an aside, I really recommend to following book, 

Zwilling J.A. Henkels Complete Book of Knife Skills: The Essential Guide to Use, Techniques & Care

It is a cracking book on how to use and care for knives.

[Mungler]

I have a ridiculous quantity of knives and am still on a journey to find the perfect set.

As has been mentioned above, knives are very personal and we all have our everyday favourite(s) don’t we; mine happens to be a €10 utility knife I bought in a hyper market in Menorca whilst staying in a self catering villa.

My top tips:

1. Stay away from anything that won’t go in a dishwasher or take some practical / rough treatment. I do chuckle at the thought of taking the shaolin monk hand made wooden handled knife down from pride of place on the mantle piece when wanting to chop a bit of cheese and slice a tomato and to then hand wash / dry it and run it through some daft time consuming lansky system to put an edge back on it. That’s not the real world and who has the time for that sort of caper? So, get something with a metal or fibrox handle.

2. Pay the money and get to keep the edge. Conversely get cheap and easy to use / sharpen. Amongst my knives I have a gaggle of the likes of the Viktorinox fibrox knives - cheap, go in the dish washer and tactile but be ready to sharpen them often. Again sharpening isn’t a problem because they are cheap enough to quickly drag through an ‘any sharp’ type of sharpener and if you lose fractions of the blade at a time it’s no big deal on a £20 / £30 knife. Indeed it will still take you years to knock into the profile of the blade / create a heel on the knife blade.

3. If the OP’s son is looking at pro stuff that’s up to the task in all respects then he should look at the F Dicke Red range (they’re on Amazon). Indeed anything out of the F Dicke range that goes in a dishwasher will do. German knife, tough blade and goes in the dishwasher.

4. as for knife sharpening, this is where I started and often return to:

https://sharpeningmadeeasy.com
 

again and I can’t emphasise this enough; anyone who has more than one knife and who uses their knives with any regularity will not have the time or inclination to laboriously lansky / spiderco each and every time. An automated solution of sorts is required. Ditto for hand washing - it’s not the real world.

 

 

Edited January 6 by Mungler

[Scully]

Thanks all. He has a very good glulam chopping board. 
I agree regarding the sharpening. I have dozens of knives and they all get a quick whiz through a fabulous sharpener I bought as part of a gralloching kit many moons ago.
A couple of swipes through that and a nifty few strokes on a steel and they’re good to go again. 
Life is too short for laborious sharpening regimes.