To magnet or not to magnet? That is the question.

[kitchrat]

JDog's recent post sparked some debate on the benefit or not of magnets. Both opinions have merit but no "rules" of pigeon shooting are cut and dried.

Anyway, I was in a position to do some research. Two fields of newly drilled beans, pigeons all over them on Friday, fairly busy road to farm development between them, nice woods near one end. Not much cover. I set up on Saturday in a ditch mid-point down one side of the field with the woods, set down so that only less than the top couple of feet of my hide was visible, gentle wind behind, woods to my right and front (other side of field). Shots should keep them moving on both fields. Set up a magnet with real birds and 25 half shell, flocked plastics. I'm there before the pigeons and when they do come, in groups of 10's or 20's, they show interest in my pattern but lack commitment and mainly drift away at 50 or 60 yards out. Not flaring away, just, "Thanks but no thanks". (Some come the "wrong way ",ie downwind from behind, from distant woods) Managed to bag a couple of less wary birds and add a second magnet. No change.

Took one magnet in, used the birds on a flapper and a floater. No change.

Too many doves in flocks of 5, 10 and 12 about, they decoy well, of course, and sometimes bring in "embedded" woodies, who decoy well but by the time you have confirmed their identity, they can also see you raise the gun and flare away. Makes you uncertain of "to shoot or not to shoot."

Got a couple more and put them out, heads up on cocktail sticks. No change.

Slowly added a few more real birds and reduced the plastics. No change, still drifting away.

Reduced the hide to next to nothing, almost lying down in the muddy ditch water. No change.

Stopped the magnet, took one arm off to make the other arm into a floater, and at last, behaviour changed!!  They showed NO interest in my field and went to the other field, 100's flooding in from a distance. A shot lifted them but they just moved down to the far end.

Walked them off and restarted my magnet and we are back to square one, looking then drifting away but the number of visits was dwindling. I have to pack up to go roosting and as I do so, they pour back to the other field.

I didn't shoot well on all the half chances as I got wound up. Finished with 35 (maybe 80 shots?) but it should have been 50+, if they had decoyed well it was a 100+ day.

Anyway, the magnet did get me a lot of difficult, half chance shooting, which was very frustrating but a lot less frustrating than no shooting at all and watching them pour onto the other field, which would have happened without it. I'm not sure, but half suspect, that most of the pigeons know what a magnet is and steer away in good time.

The roosting was also frustrating, lots of birds over the wood but almost all too high or in the wrong place Shot 5 more.

The next two farms are now drilling beans,oats and wheat, so I guess there will be too many options for the pigeons. Two other farmers are complaining about flocks on their OSR but it's always here today, gone tomorrow. Frustrating times!!

Cheers!

[Fellside]

I didn’t read the post about benefits (or otherwise) of magnets. I can only say that I use one sparingly. I usually find a couple of flappers with intermittent timers do the trick. In fact, if I take my eye off the ball for a sandwich or whatever, they will land beside the flappers, so they definitely don’t frighten them. Enjoyed your write up. I can relate to the frustration of those half chances and birds not decoying. We’ve all had days like that - but we’ll done for getting a few. 

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, i tried a magnet a few years ago with out much success but most likely my choice of placement, looking at this now i would consider a decent flapper and 2 bouncers a viable alternative, if you are realy dedicated there is a lot of gear to carry about which is not for me these days, i gave my magnet to a young man starting out so now will look for a flapper 

[Wilts#Dave]

Personally never found taking the magnet in to draw more pigeons, though as you describe some days the shooting it offers you is challenging to say the least. There’s not always a reason you can find as to why some days the same setup will pull every bird in confidently and others it just won’t! 
I do firmly believe the magnet/rotary will offer you more shooting over the majority of days than not using one. 
However on the right day in the right place most setups will ‘work’ ! 
Glad to hear you’ve got some to go at though, you’ll be having a bumper day before you know it. 

[yickdaz]

Sounds like it was one of those days where they just don't want to commit no matter what you do with or without gadgets I've had countless days like that,  the magnet has got me shooting when they won't decoy even it only brings them on the edge of range  for a shot I would have had next to nothing without it  20 or 30 on a difficult day is better than nothing 

[bunny_blaster]

I’ve had many days where the pigeons just don’t want to know no matter what I do, I’ve read that air pressure can have a role to play in this but how true it is I don’t know. I do find the position of the magnet is vital though and quite often moving it around the pattern has changed how the birds commit. Also if it’s a heavily shot area they can get use to them. I have some rape which I’ve been shooting every other week if not 3 weeks to let the birds settle back in. They have committed well until another shooter decided to show up out of the wood work and hammer them twice a week since. I watched him at the weekend and the birds are so spooky they don’t go anywhere near his set up. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

9 minutes ago, bunny_blaster said:

I’ve had many days where the pigeons just don’t want to know no matter what I do, I’ve read that air pressure can have a role to play in this but how true it is I don’t know. I do find the position of the magnet is vital though and quite often moving it around the pattern has changed how the birds commit. Also if it’s a heavily shot area they can get use to them. I have some rape which I’ve been shooting every other week if not 3 weeks to let the birds settle back in. They have committed well until another shooter decided to show up out of the wood work and hammer them twice a week since. I watched him at the weekend and the birds are so spooky they don’t go anywhere near his set up. 

Hopefully he will give up then.

[marsh man]

I am not sure what year the rotary / magnet was first put in use , maybe late 70s , early 80s ? , well we are now in 2024 so they could now have been in use for a good 50 years and have became a normal piece of kit for just about everyone who go Pigeon decoying , we all had good days in the early years but as the years roll on we have to admit they no longer have the pulling power that they once did , nearly every year this subject crop up and we can all put the reasons why they don't work one day and yet the next day they work just fine , as already said that in most cases you could get more shooting with it out than you would with it been unused in the hide , I say more shooting rather than more decoying as nowadays they seem less likely to comit to the decoys with the rotary going around in circles  that is placed not far from the decoy pattern , in the Summer months I now leave it at home and just stick to static decoys and a couple on floaters , how refreshing it is to see a Pigeon that come into the decoys without flaring off when it is all but in range .

We now know that the GL is amended and updated from time to time and I wander how long it will be before they stop the use of any battery operated devices , might not ever happen but with all the various threats on shooting it could well happen and could happen more or less overnight .   MM

[muncher]

I always start with a magnet and move it or take it down if they’re not having it. I often set it behind me if they are not committing. So they come into range before moving off. 

[marsh man]

24 minutes ago, muncher said:

I always start with a magnet and move it or take it down if they’re not having it. I often set it behind me if they are not committing. So they come into range before moving off. 

Very few decoyers do it the other way round by keeping it in the hide and then putting it out later if you think you need some pulling power , my mate do exactly the same as you by placing it behind him and then if they do flair when 50 / 60 yds out then with it being 20 yds behind him then a shot is still on .

I dare say that over the years just about every different method known to man have been tried , from using short arms , long arms , one short and one long , in , out , right and left and so on and so on and so on and here we are still asking if it is worth putting out , in all fairness , we just don't know the real answer .     MM

[Manymissedpigeon]

Evening all, just a pennerth  from up north. I find a magnet with foam wings on full body decoys and remote speed control nearly useless on osr ( apart from an extra bird scarer to save farmer’s gas guns) Now a magnet works wonderfully for me on laid barley/wheat in early summer and pretty good on peas once they’ve started vineing but again, no use on drillings. Dead birds on timed flappers ( preferably high speed ones) or medium speed on the flapper when the timer goes ‘pop’ even though I carry spares! For drillings I find a couple of peckers and a couple dozen shells work best with the odd occasion where a flapper ‘can sometimes’ pull birds that are intent on visiting another field. 
You’re really lucky ‘kitchrat’ with beans going in as my three farms that drill beans aren’t due to start till at the best, the end of this month, weather permitting as the ground here in Yorkshire is still drying out and simply clogs up the modern drill. Birds are visiting some rape fields but still have crops half full of ivy berries with very small amounts of rape leaves in them plus hardly any signs of the massive winter flocks of birds we used to see.

One other thing of note is the absence of crows on intensive cattle feeders around beef farms that I shoot on! Although the farmers ( some anyway) think it’s down to me and a pal shooting them from time to time, it’s not frightened them off in previous years!

Anyway, if we see every pigeon that comes near enough, if we shoot at every pigeon we see AND, if we hit every pigeon we shoot at, then some of us would nearly always have a good day! But pouring coffee, answering the phone and chatting on the radio to a mate in the next field saves the lives of hundreds of pigeons a year. And that’s only ME.

[marsh man]

48 minutes ago, Manymissedpigeon said:

Evening all, just a pennerth  from up north. I find a magnet with foam wings on full body decoys and remote speed control nearly useless on osr ( apart from an extra bird scarer to save farmer’s gas guns) Now a magnet works wonderfully for me on laid barley/wheat in early summer and pretty good on peas once they’ve started vineing but again, no use on drillings. Dead birds on timed flappers ( preferably high speed ones) or medium speed on the flapper when the timer goes ‘pop’ even though I carry spares! For drillings I find a couple of peckers and a couple dozen shells work best with the odd occasion where a flapper ‘can sometimes’ pull birds that are intent on visiting another field. 
You’re really lucky ‘kitchrat’ with beans going in as my three farms that drill beans aren’t due to start till at the best, the end of this month, weather permitting as the ground here in Yorkshire is still drying out and simply clogs up the modern drill. Birds are visiting some rape fields but still have crops half full of ivy berries with very small amounts of rape leaves in them plus hardly any signs of the massive winter flocks of birds we used to see.

One other thing of note is the absence of crows on intensive cattle feeders around beef farms that I shoot on! Although the farmers ( some anyway) think it’s down to me and a pal shooting them from time to time, it’s not frightened them off in previous years!

Anyway, if we see every pigeon that comes near enough, if we shoot at every pigeon we see AND, if we hit every pigeon we shoot at, then some of us would nearly always have a good day! But pouring coffee, answering the phone and chatting on the radio to a mate in the next field saves the lives of hundreds of pigeons a year. And that’s only ME.

For some unknown reason we haven't got the number of Pigeons that we used to have in the past , no shortage of them around these parts but no longer the mega numbers that we used to see from time to time .

One ole farmer used to say to me that every Pigeon I shoot you can expect two will be going to it's funeral 

[yickdaz]

16 hours ago, marsh man said:

I am not sure what year the rotary / magnet was first put in use , maybe late 70s , early 80s ? , well we are now in 2024 so they could now have been in use for a good 50 years and have became a normal piece of kit for just about everyone who go Pigeon decoying , we all had good days in the early years but as the years roll on we have to admit they no longer have the pulling power that they once did , nearly every year this subject crop up and we can all put the reasons why they don't work one day and yet the next day they work just fine , as already said that in most cases you could get more shooting with it out than you would with it been unused in the hide , I say more shooting rather than more decoying as nowadays they seem less likely to comit to the decoys with the rotary going around in circles  that is placed not far from the decoy pattern , in the Summer months I now leave it at home and just stick to static decoys and a couple on floaters , how refreshing it is to see a Pigeon that come into the decoys without flaring off when it is all but in range .

We now know that the GL is amended and updated from time to time and I wander how long it will be before they stop the use of any battery operated devices , might not ever happen but with all the various threats on shooting it could well happen and could happen more or less overnight .   MM

Where magnets around in the 70s and 80s ? Obviously manual flappers were first time I saw a rotary was about 1998 and that was a home made one I started shooting in the mid 80s never heard about them or saw one 

[old'un]

5 hours ago, yickdaz said:

Where magnets around in the 70s and 80s ? Obviously manual flappers were first time I saw a rotary was about 1998 and that was a home made one I started shooting in the mid 80s never heard about them or saw one 

For me the magnet works and would not be without one, you do get the odd occasion when they seem spooked by it but thankfully that does not happen often..

Defiantly not around in the late 60 and cannot remember ever seeing one in the 70s, I made my first one, think it was late 80s early 90s, cant remember where I got the idea from but seem to remember reading about them in some magazine and being an engineer it was not to difficult to make once I had got the motor from the local scrap yard, in fact I gave it away some time ago to someone on here.

[kitchrat]

Update on my research;

Today I am on well-chewed rape, it's dead windy so I don't use the magnet as on the downwind leg the dead bird looks so stupid, tail all blown up etc.. I have the flocked shells, a flapper, a floater and some Silly Socks to add a bit of movement in the wind.

All looks OK?

However, the returning pigeons give me the same old "Yes I was interested , thanks but no thanks" and drift away early.

I don't think they could see my hide, crows were going overhead ok...

So what's going wrong? Can't believe they are seeing the peg holes in the decoys!!??

Moved onto another bean field, a bit better there, once I had a dozen real birds as decoys but they still were not suicidal!

Cheers, Kitchrat

[old'un]

1 hour ago, kitchrat said:

Update on my research;

Today I am on well-chewed rape, it's dead windy so I don't use the magnet as on the downwind leg the dead bird looks so stupid, tail all blown up etc.. I have the flocked shells, a flapper, a floater and some Silly Socks to add a bit of movement in the wind.

All looks OK?

However, the returning pigeons give me the same old "Yes I was interested , thanks but no thanks" and drift away early.

I don't think they could see my hide, crows were going overhead ok...

So what's going wrong? Can't believe they are seeing the peg holes in the decoys!!??

Moved onto another bean field, a bit better there, once I had a dozen real birds as decoys but they still were not suicidal!

Cheers, Kitchrat

have you tried using less decoys, perhaps 10 max and if possible only dead birds.

Is that a road behind your hide?

[marsh man]

2 hours ago, old'un said:

For me the magnet works and would not be without one, you do get the odd occasion when they seem spooked by it but thankfully that does not happen often..

Defiantly not around in the late 60 and cannot remember ever seeing one in the 70s, I made my first one, think it was late 80s early 90s, cant remember where I got the idea from but seem to remember reading about them in some magazine and being an engineer it was not to difficult to make once I had got the motor from the local scrap yard, in fact I gave it away some time ago to someone on here.

I am pretty sure a lot of the early magnets took off in the 80s with the car scrap yards doing well by selling the wiper motors , my first one was already several years old when a mate of mine brought his to try it out , this one had two setting's on the motor for different speeds , the arms were made out of high tensile thin steel rod and it was forever more snapping off from where it married into the motor , although when it became mine I was always getting the farm boys to put a spot of weld on the arm, the motor never ever let me down , I then bought a job lot of Pigeon gear off a member on here and gave my old one to Alan ( Lakeside 1000 ) who used to be a member and the last time I saw him , it was still working well so it must have been a very good wiper motor .

I believe Phil Beasley was the first to make them for the general public around the 90s but I guess there were several already in use .   MM

[kitchrat]

21 hours ago, old'un said:

have you tried using less decoys, perhaps 10 max and if possible only dead birds.

Is that a road behind your hide?

Yes, I've thought about less but am always up against flocks of 100+ real birds pulling newcomers in, so feel more is better. Of course real birds are better but usually I have to carry across muddy fields. Also, I like to get my victims into the food chain ASAP.

Yes, that's a road!

[JDog]

You are doing pretty well of late.  Better than most.

I always use a rotary on rape, standing corn and bean stubble and never on drillings.

[martinj]

39 minutes ago, kitchrat said:

Yes, I've thought about less but am always up against flocks of 100+ real birds pulling newcomers in, so feel more is better. Of course real birds are better but usually I have to carry across muddy fields. Also, I like to get my victims into the food chain ASAP.

Yes, that's a road!

I notice that you are using different makes of deeks which are quite different in appearance, does anyone think that this could be a problem?

To be honest it bothers me to the point where I have painted all of my shells more or less the same colour using a dead pigeon as a comparison to get the colours right. Probably a bit anal but it stops that nagging doubt when I'm out there and nothing is happening

Also, if fewer decoys don't work how about using more? I know Old-Un will agree where's my tin hat?

[mellors]

I would say there seeing you. 

Also your more than likely in the wrong place. 

I would never set up that near a road. 

8 or 10 decoys and a flapper is all i ever use. Then change them as you pick them.

Works for me. 

 

 

[old'un]

1 hour ago, martinj said:

 

Also, if fewer decoys don't work how about using more? I know Old-Un will agree where's my tin hat?

 

its a plan ….do you have a number in mind?

2 hours ago, JDog said:

You are doing pretty well of late.  Better than most.

 

he is...considering they are not decoying.

[the hitman]

My opinion is that you should stick with one type of decoy- sillo’s work well for me and I would not mix them with shells as it just looks wrong and might be the problem.

Always a magnet on winter rape in the first instance- it works 8/10 times for me.

You can have a very poor hide if you can sit very still with your face hidden  when bird are approaching.

finally I would not be shooting that close to a road.

 

 

 

Edited February 7 by the hitman

[kitchrat]

10 hours ago, the hitman said:

My opinion is that you should stick with one type of decoy- sillo’s work well for me and I would not mix them with shells as it just looks wrong and might be the problem.

Always a magnet on winter rape in the first instance- it works 8/10 times for me.

You can have a very poor hide if you can sit very still with your face hidden  when bird are approaching.

finally I would not be shooting that close to a road.

 

 

 

People have raised a variety of points. Believe me, I have tried most of them! Fewer decs, the different types sometimes in different areas so as not to mix them, sometimes mixed, usually no silly socks unless windy, no magnet, flapper, over-sized shell decs, floaters, the results are usually very similar.

Silly socks look silly when it's not windy.

I don't think they were seeing me, even rooks and crows were drifting right overhead.

I'm surprised to see respected shooters like JDog say "I always use a rotary on rape, standing corn and bean stubble and never on drillings.", using words like always and never. I think in pigeon shooting there are NO hard and fast rules, except "there are no rules"!

Finally, the road is/was no problem, the pigeons liked that side of the field because of some nice trees at hang out in and a little valley they like to drift along. The crop is quite damaged just there. Of course, once I shoot a few times, the other side of the field looks greener, as usual with winter rape. Then, once a few dozen get settled, it soon becomes 100. Shots don't always keep them off. Then the farmer says "you're in the wrong place"!!

[JDog]

14 minutes ago, kitchrat said:

People have raised a variety of points. Believe me, I have tried most of them! Fewer decs, the different types sometimes in different areas so as not to mix them, sometimes mixed, usually no silly socks unless windy, no magnet, flapper, over-sized shell decs, floaters, the results are usually very similar.

Silly socks look silly when it's not windy.

I don't think they were seeing me, even rooks and crows were drifting right overhead.

I'm surprised to see respected shooters like JDog say "I always use a rotary on rape, standing corn and bean stubble and never on drillings.", using words like always and never. I think in pigeon shooting there are NO hard and fast rules, except "there are no rules"!

Finally, the road is/was no problem, the pigeons liked that side of the field because of some nice trees at hang out in and a little valley they like to drift along. The crop is quite damaged just there. Of course, once I shoot a few times, the other side of the field looks greener, as usual with winter rape. Then, once a few dozen get settled, it soon becomes 100. Shots don't always keep them off. Then the farmer says "you're in the wrong place"!!

They are my hard and fast rules.