Conor O'Gorman Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 (edited) Should we try to get woodpigeon on to the quarry list, while retaining the species on the general licences for bird pest control? https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/news/woodpigeons-pest-or-a-quarry-species-147210/ Edited February 8 by Conor O'Gorman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 The simple answer is they should be shot all year round, it doesn't matter how you dress it up they are a pest simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 I can see the shooting of the humble Wood Pigeon will always be a Grey area , and the care free days of Pigeon shooting are hanging on a thread , as soon as one problem is now sorted then another one is ready to take it's place . MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 (edited) 29 minutes ago, 8 shot said: The simple answer is they should be shot all year round, it doesn't matter how you dress it up they are a pest simple as that. My understanding is that if they were on the quarry list then they could be shot all year round in any quantities ( including one for the pot ) as both a legal quarry and a pest species. You cannot currently shoot one ( or many ) for the pot. Edited February 8 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jall25 Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 At the moment i believe many members of the public - maybe not aligned with shooting - accept the need to control pest species I wonder if they were put on the list as a quarry if many would then think it was just something else to shoot as so many term it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 16 minutes ago, jall25 said: At the moment i believe many members of the public - maybe not aligned with shooting - accept the need to control pest species I wonder if they were put on the list as a quarry if many would then think it was just something else to shoot as so many term it ? They will still be a pest species, just one you can shoot all year round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 46 minutes ago, Scully said: My understanding is that if they were on the quarry list then they could be shot all year round in any quantities ( including one for the pot ) Does that mean in theory that all the Game dealers buying pigeons at the moment are breaking the law ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 2 minutes ago, 8 shot said: Does that mean in theory that all the Game dealers buying pigeons at the moment are breaking the law ? No, not even in theory. Why would it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 1 hour ago, Scully said: You cannot currently shoot one ( or many ) for the pot. But you can sell them for the pot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 2 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said: Should we try to get woodpigeon on to the quarry list, while retaining the species on the general licences for bird pest control? https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/news/woodpigeons-pest-or-a-quarry-species-147210/ I have been shouting at this to BASC for years and not a blind bit of notice taken! Any species that is or was on the general licence should be registered as game and therefore the general licence only needs to cover the breeding season. This is the only way to secure control of those species, given the continual erosion of the GL's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 5 minutes ago, 8 shot said: But you can sell them for the pot? Yes. I’m not really sure what point it is you’re trying to make. It is the GL which governs the circumstances under which a certain species can be shot, not what you can do with it afterwards. 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger687 Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 3 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said: Should we try to get woodpigeon on to the quarry list, while retaining the species on the general licences for bird pest control? https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/news/woodpigeons-pest-or-a-quarry-species-147210/ Yes, along with Brent Geese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted February 8 Author Report Share Posted February 8 3 hours ago, 8 shot said: The simple answer is they should be shot all year round, it doesn't matter how you dress it up they are a pest simple as that. As I understand it bird species listed on 'huntable' quarry lists require close seasons during breeding and/or spring migration periods under EU laws; and regardless of Brexit there are similar requirements under Bern Convention which UK is a signatory to - so having a bird species on the quarry list with no appropriate close season would not be lawful currently.However, as per the Shooting Times article linked in the OP, Canada goose is an example of a species with open and close seasons and is also on general licences for all year round control (nests, young, adults).The ins and out of all this was in fact all outlined in detail in a Law Commission review of wildlife law for England and Wales before Brexit - but then we had Brexit.As things stand there has not been a holistic review of wildlife law since 1981 for England and Wales. Reviews have since taken place in NI and Scotland.How long the woodpigeon open/close season should be would be a discussion point in the event of a quarry species review. 2 hours ago, Stonepark said: I have been shouting at this to BASC for years and not a blind bit of notice taken! Any species that is or was on the general licence should be registered as game and therefore the general licence only needs to cover the breeding season. This is the only way to secure control of those species, given the continual erosion of the GL's. It is all about timing. There was an opportunity for England in 2019. There will be new opportunities ahead across the UK. 1 hour ago, Smudger687 said: Yes, along with Brent Geese. I agree, there is a good case for their return to the quarry list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 My two penneth. Yes, to an all year GL and quarry species status used in tandem…… if we had a magic wand. Its risky move however, as with all political discussions. Who knows where we could end up?In the worst case, possibly quarry status and a limited season only. Currently we don’t have a big enough problem to find a solution for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 (edited) Pigeon pie. There was a thread on what should be protected as a traditional activity. Surely the taking of a pigeon for the pot (or pie) was that most traditional and long standing of countryside "foraging" activity? I would agree with the OP's proposal. However if BASC had its way it'd be academic anyway...for shooting bismuth cartridges at £2 a pop now transforms a pigeon pie to being a luxury food more expensive than a smoked salmon sandwich. So it's all rather pointless given BASC's lead ban call. Edited February 9 by enfieldspares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted February 9 Author Report Share Posted February 9 Thanks all for the comments and advice so far. As an aside, I am rather surprised how few PW members have engaged in this thread so far, given that this is a pigeon shooting forum after all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down South Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 59 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said: Thanks all for the comments and advice so far. As an aside, I am rather surprised how few PW members have engaged in this thread so far, given that this is a pigeon shooting forum after all! 409 views so far! Not being disrespectful but perhaps members seeing your name on a new topic expect to see the discussion degenerate into a slagging match involving the usual suspects. Members have their views and are still allowed to voice them. That said; any legislation that benefits live quarry shooting has to be welcomed providing the general licenses don’t get more complicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said: Thanks all for the comments and advice so far. As an aside, I am rather surprised how few PW members have engaged in this thread so far, given that this is a pigeon shooting forum after all! They are both a Pest and a fantastic sporting quarry way better than any Game Bird, Grouse excepted. Edited February 9 by Weihrauch17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterHenry Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 Personally, I'd be in favour - I can't really see a downside. Maybe if I'd have been asked 10 years ago I'd have said leave things be - but after all the fuss and performance over the last few years? There's not really any downside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellors Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 10 hours ago, Down South said: 409 views so far! Not being disrespectful but perhaps members seeing your name on a new topic expect to see the discussion degenerate into a slagging match involving the usual suspects. Members have their views and are still allowed to voice them. That said; any legislation that benefits live quarry shooting has to be welcomed providing the general licenses don’t get more complicated. Agreed. Although why has he raised this now ???. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 11 hours ago, Down South said: 409 views so far! Not being disrespectful but perhaps members seeing your name on a new topic expect to see the discussion degenerate into a slagging match involving the usual suspects. Members have their views and are still allowed to voice them. I have read ALL of the posts from the Doctor across PW. He doesn't enter in to debate, he attempts to shout people down who dare to offer a different opinion. He then offers to speak on the phone. So I now read through and don't bother to engage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 4 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: I have read ALL of the posts from the Doctor across PW. He doesn't enter in to debate, he attempts to shout people down who dare to offer a different opinion. He then offers to speak on the phone. So I now read through and don't bother to engage. your not wrong there and with pigeon shooting having multi billion pound industries behind it this idea whiffs of ulterior motive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted February 10 Author Report Share Posted February 10 (edited) 14 hours ago, PeterHenry said: Personally, I'd be in favour - I can't really see a downside. Maybe if I'd have been asked 10 years ago I'd have said leave things be - but after all the fuss and performance over the last few years? There's not really any downside. I know what you mean. Indeed ten years ago BASC ran a campaign to simplify the general licences - this was in the context of the 'shoo before you shoot' English Nature consultation if I recall correctly which was the start of the complications creeping in. We wanted a return to a single page of A4 with the species listed and methods allowed. Of course things have gone in the completely opposite direction - first England, then Scotland, then Wales and most recently NI has fallen foul of the lawyers. Also if I recall correctly there was a proposal in 2014 to add greylag goose to English general licence which caused some controversy in the shooting community and ultimately the proposal was dropped. However, Canada goose, also a quarry species, went onto general licences - whether around then or before I can't remember. Magpie is no longer on any general licence in Wales. Could it get onto the quarry list in Wales if there was a review? Probably not now but worth trying. But if there had been a review of wildlife law 20 years ago for England and Wales perhaps a lot of this could have been sorted out. Mind you it might have got worse! In any case here we are still largely reliant on legislation from 1981. Edited February 10 by Conor O'Gorman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 On 08/02/2024 at 18:57, 8 shot said: But you can sell them for the pot? Yes perfectly legal as long you didn't shoot them with the sole intention of selling them or eating them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 10 minutes ago, Vince Green said: Yes perfectly legal as long you didn't shoot them with the sole intention of selling them or eating them Can I ask where you’ve got this info’ from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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