Two Tier Kier setting out the pain that is coming.......................

[Mungler]

6 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

What an awful start. I didn't vote for them and didn't expect much, but I'd had enough of the tories and their broken promises and thought let's give Labour a clean sheet and a chance. 

So far, off the top of my head. Robbed pensioners of the winter fuel payment, party sleeze with Lord Ali and dodgy payments, two tier justice and to the best of my knowledge, the highest tax and borrowing ever. 

What an absolute train wreck. God only knows where this country will be in 5 years time. 

I read the other day that in the 90s, the UKs wealth per person was on a par with the USA. We're currently 20k pounds a year less wealthy per person. If correct that is an incredible decline and I fear for our youth who have no chance in life. 

I echo all of that.

We all hoped that 5 years in the wilderness would sort the Conservatives out and that we’d get Blair 2.0 and light touch lefties in the meantime - but no.

[JohnfromUK]

 

1 minute ago, Mungler said:

we’d get Blair 2.0 and light touch lefties in the meantime - but no.

Starmer has a history of sympathy and involvement with the further left side of his party.  In his younger days he wrote for publications on the far left.

As a past lawyer, he says what he thinks will win over his 'jury' (now the electorate), but that doesn't have to be connected to what he thinks himself - it's just a means to win over the audience, be it jury or electorate.

Same as his criticism of other politicians taking 'freebies' and portraying himself as so clean and innocent of such evils - until we find out he has been at least as bad as others, possibly more so.

It has been said of politicians that "If their lips are moving, they are lying".  The present crop, led from the front by Starmer, are confirming that old joke.

[oowee]

11 hours ago, armsid said:

Oowee if Labour were so good at running the country then why didBrown sell our gold reserves for less than scrap value?

Bad move i reckon. 

Have we bought it back again? I saw recently a london vault for BoE with £30bn of gold and that was one of 7. Not all for UK mind. 

12 hours ago, ShootingEgg said:

I didn't ask for % 

But if that spins it your way then crack on.

The Tories inherited a much worse situation hense the cuts.. 

 

🤣Spin, what ever you say 🤣 How do you want to account for it with inflation.

[Flashman]

Looking at both Sterling and Gilts today, it’s safe to say the Labour crashed the economy. 

That’s the trouble with enabling liars - it comes back to bite us. 

I guess the question is, “how much damage can Labour cause in one five-year Parliament?”  They won’t get in next time round. 

[ShootingEgg]

9 hours ago, oowee said:

Bad move i reckon. 

Have we bought it back again? I saw recently a london vault for BoE with £30bn of gold and that was one of 7. Not all for UK mind. 

🤣Spin, what ever you say 🤣 How do you want to account for it with inflation.

So you are saying that at the time we didn't need to cut and that the Tories could have just carried on.

Socialist puppet to the WEF starmer has screwed EVERYONE over. The small print will cripple this country and we will just become another Venezuela..

[oowee]

45 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

So you are saying that at the time we didn't need to cut and that the Tories could have just carried on.

Socialist puppet to the WEF starmer has screwed EVERYONE over. The small print will cripple this country and we will just become another Venezuela..

Lets hope not. 🙂 

We were up a creek with the Tories with no idea where we were going. The economy is a ball of chalk kicked in the nether regions by covid and then urinated on by the Brexiteers. it's clear that Labour are far far from perfect but they do have a plan. It's a lot more than we had drifting down the pan. Fingers crossed. 

[ShootingEgg]

28 minutes ago, oowee said:

it's clear that Labour are far far from perfect but they do have a plan

To screw everyone and spend money that's not there.

Do exactly what the WEF tell them, kill farming in the UK. And raise taxes and unemployment.. staff in some small businesses will be laid off and will suffer with the raise in NI and minimum wage. 

 

 

[welsh1]

38 minutes ago, oowee said:

it's clear that Labour are far far from perfect but they do have a plan.

Kill off the pensioners, destroy agriculture and decimate small businesses 

What a plan.

[old man]

On 31/10/2024 at 20:32, ShootingEgg said:

I didn't ask for % 

But if that spins it your way then crack on.

The Tories inherited a much worse situation hense the cuts.. 

 

Thinking we all need a reality check, they are, irrespective of colour absolute *****.

[oldypigeonpopper]

On 01/11/2024 at 10:26, Flashman said:

Looking at both Sterling and Gilts today, it’s safe to say the Labour crashed the economy. 

That’s the trouble with enabling liars - it comes back to bite us. 

I guess the question is, “how much damage can Labour cause in one five-year Parliament?”  They won’t get in next time round. 

Hello, Not forgetting Liz Truss crashing the economy , Looks like Labour will put the last nail in the UK coffin, I have had my time, my sons are an age where they may have a decent retirement, I fear it will be the Younger Generation who are going to feel the economic pain living in the UK 

[ShootingEgg]

20 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, Not forgetting Liz Truss crashing the economy , Looks like Labour will put the last nail in the UK coffin, I have had my time, my sons are an age where they may have a decent retirement, I fear it will be the Younger Generation who are going to feel the economic pain living in the UK 

This budget is far worse than that mini **** up. Just not seen the fall out as fast

[Mungler]

2 hours ago, ShootingEgg said:

This budget is far worse than that mini **** up. Just not seen the fall out as fast

This.

The Truss and Kwatang budget was actually the right direction and promoted growth and enterprise. In years to come we will see this. However, they didn’t play the game or their cards in the right order and got stitched up. 

It’s a weird socialist and public sector mentality that now pervades everything - anti wealth or rather wealth is there to be redistributed.

So why bother to aspire to acquire wealth? Why risk your house and have sleepless nights to crack on in business to lose it at every stage to the government who will then redistribute it up a wall. Every but every public sector project is an economic disaster and failure has no consequence - I bankrupt my business and I lose my house, bankrupt a council and you still get paid and a generous final salary pension. There is zero accountability in the public sector and no consequence to wasting other people’s hard earned money. It’s appalling. 

If you want growth (and believe me, growth is everything) then you need enterprise and incentive. We now have the absolute reverse. There is no point doing anything adventurous or risking capital in the UK and so we will see investment plummet and go elsewhere. 

It’s all so obvious. Ask anyone in actual business and outside of the public sector. 

[Newbie to this]

Can't help but think it is being done deliberately to make the UK government's inevitable push to rejoin the EU, look palatable.

[amateur]

2 hours ago, Mungler said:

This.

The Truss and Kwatang budget was actually the right direction and promoted growth and enterprise. In years to come we will see this. However, they didn’t play the game or their cards in the right order and got stitched up. 

It’s a weird socialist and public sector mentality that now pervades everything - anti wealth or rather wealth is there to be redistributed.

So why bother to aspire to acquire wealth? Why risk your house and have sleepless nights to crack on in business to lose it at every stage to the government who will then redistribute it up a wall. Every but every public sector project is an economic disaster and failure has no consequence - I bankrupt my business and I lose my house, bankrupt a council and you still get paid and a generous final salary pension. There is zero accountability in the public sector and no consequence to wasting other people’s hard earned money. It’s appalling. 

If you want growth (and believe me, growth is everything) then you need enterprise and incentive. We now have the absolute reverse. There is no point doing anything adventurous or risking capital in the UK and so we will see investment plummet and go elsewhere. 

It’s all so obvious. Ask anyone in actual business and outside of the public sector. 

Spot on 👍🏻

[holloway]

My pension has now begun to drop like a stone and it started the day after the budget 🙁thanks Sir Kier .

[12gauge82]

7 hours ago, Mungler said:

This.

The Truss and Kwatang budget was actually the right direction and promoted growth and enterprise. In years to come we will see this. However, they didn’t play the game or their cards in the right order and got stitched up. 

It’s a weird socialist and public sector mentality that now pervades everything - anti wealth or rather wealth is there to be redistributed.

So why bother to aspire to acquire wealth? Why risk your house and have sleepless nights to crack on in business to lose it at every stage to the government who will then redistribute it up a wall. Every but every public sector project is an economic disaster and failure has no consequence - I bankrupt my business and I lose my house, bankrupt a council and you still get paid and a generous final salary pension. There is zero accountability in the public sector and no consequence to wasting other people’s hard earned money. It’s appalling. 

If you want growth (and believe me, growth is everything) then you need enterprise and incentive. We now have the absolute reverse. There is no point doing anything adventurous or risking capital in the UK and so we will see investment plummet and go elsewhere. 

It’s all so obvious. Ask anyone in actual business and outside of the public sector. 

Absolutely correct. But I caveat that with the fact big business has been getting away with murder and something needs doing about it. The west taxation laws are out of date. Mass uncontrolled migration has allowed them to underpay the going rate and avoid giving apprenticeships and training. While the working masses have seen a substantial drop in their real world pay. Big businesses owners have seen incredible growth in their pay. 

[zipdog]

2 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Absolutely correct. But I caveat that with the fact big business has been getting away with murder and something needs doing about it. The west taxation laws are out of date. Mass uncontrolled migration has allowed them to underpay the going rate and avoid giving apprenticeships and training. While the working masses have seen a substantial drop in their real world pay. Big businesses owners have seen incredible growth in their pay. 

👍👍

[Mice!]

17 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

Can't help but think it is being done deliberately to make the UK government's inevitable push to rejoin the EU, look palatable.

Absolutely,  it's like they think we'll not notice. 

10 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Absolutely correct. But I caveat that with the fact big business has been getting away with murder and something needs doing about it. The west taxation laws are out of date. Mass uncontrolled migration has allowed them to underpay the going rate and avoid giving apprenticeships and training. While the working masses have seen a substantial drop in their real world pay. Big businesses owners have seen incredible growth in their pay. 

I work at a BIG company and they are taking on huge numbers of Apprentices, but smaller companies won't want the expenses and time involved if they can just employ cheap labour, I've worked at places where they do just that, but in the long term it means there will be a skills shortage in the future. 

[armsid]

I served an apprenticeship in Coventry and after we joined the EU common market as was companies started to employ trained people from Europe at a lower pay firms moved abroad so the renowned Cov Tech. closed down as no apprentices were being trained this is why we have a skills shortfall

[12gauge82]

4 hours ago, Mice! said:

Absolutely,  it's like they think we'll not notice. 

I work at a BIG company and they are taking on huge numbers of Apprentices, but smaller companies won't want the expenses and time involved if they can just employ cheap labour, I've worked at places where they do just that, but in the long term it means there will be a skills shortage in the future. 

Is that as a result of Brexit or were they already doing that?

The fact is, since we joined the EU, allowed mass migration of low skilled workers, allow the EU to move the UK jobs sector to low skilled, low pay services sector. Big business has done very well at the expense of the working class of this country. 

[Newbie to this]

Yep, mass immigration is the root cause of most of our problems in the UK. It has made everyone poorer except those in big business and government. Which is the reason it won't change, not without root change in our political system....

[rbrowning2]

On 01/11/2024 at 19:36, oowee said:

Lets hope not. 🙂 

We were up a creek with the Tories with no idea where we were going. The economy is a ball of chalk kicked in the nether regions by covid and then urinated on by the Brexiteers. it's clear that Labour are far far from perfect but they do have a plan. It's a lot more than we had drifting down the pan. Fingers crossed. 

We are now up the creek without a paddle, this budget will hit jobs, pay, inflation, interest rates and unlikely to deliver on growth.

Cannot wait for the next one.

[Mice!]

4 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

that as a result of Brexit or were they already doing that?

Nothing to do with Brexit,  cheap immigrant labour will never get a job here, there's still a training school for the Apprentices, and the numbers have been ramped up, you're looking at 100s not a few like other companies 

But they will be the exception not the norm.

[Mungler]

Interesting turmoil in the bond markets. Apparently those who lend governments money are getting worried at the European tax and spend models (as adopted by Reeves) which have seen country debt levels rise to frightening levels and haven’t delivered growth or any increase in tax take (being the money the governments all banked on to repay governmental excessive borrowing).

Who knew that taxing the productive to give it away in settling public sector pay rises and to spaff up a wall through the public sector wouldn’t deliver growth but will see the money frittered away.

If unfactored government borrowing costs are not brought under control (and the traditional approach is to start repaying the debt) then something will snap and that’s a crash. Europe is absolutely in the doldrums - France is about to have a downgrade of its credit rating which in itself will ramp up borrowing costs, Italy has returned to double basket case status following Covid and Germany is in recession). Europe is done for.

Edited November 3 by Mungler

[TIGHTCHOKE]

What a balls up..................