National campaign launched to tackle firearm certificate fraud

[Mungler]

43 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

But not everyone has a passport.

Well, another official piece of photo ID then - we need that to vote in person now.

A bit simpler than whatever ‘the state’ has planned for this apparent but unknown escalating problem…

[SxS]

On 25/12/2024 at 08:27, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Whilst not a "non Story", without some figures to support the statement it is all rather wishy washy.

“Wish washy” is perhaps a very generous evaluation!  People need to think about how these things might play out longer term  

There are already moves afoot to increase the costs associated with licensing and the current government is also, if the hunting announcement on Boxing Day is indicative, still quite anti-fieldsports. 
 

if I were an anti wanting to twist things to suit my own agenda, I’d be pointing to BASC’s article as an implicit admission by the largest shooting organisation that there is a problem with certificate fraud… something I think most shooters wouldn’t believe is actually the case.  A small problem can still justify vigilance, but it’s a mistake to put out articles that could quite easily be used against shooting  

That said, it always surprises me that the current licensing system seems so archaic.  No idea why we’re still on paper based certificates when it wouldn’t be difficult to have a driving license style card (that didn’t disintegrate if you carried it) with a database for checking/transferring ownership.  

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, SxS said:

There are already moves afoot to increase the costs associated with licensing

And there it is .

Your FAC/SGC  needs to cost £500 now because of all the fraud, sorry .

Create the problem  - Provide the solution.

I wonder if they'll be 10 years 🤣

[TIGHTCHOKE]

10 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

And there it is .

Your FAC/SGC  needs to cost £500 now because of all the fraud, sorry .

Create the problem  - Provide the solution.

I wonder if they'll be 10 years 🤣

No, because the Police will say that is too long between renewals and the checks that are passed on to the Doctors.

[Konor]

If FAC’s and shotgun certificates were issued for life akin to driving licences and checks carried out as often as deemed necessary it would certainly free up more police time to police rather than carrying out repetitive paper work.

[HantsRob]

The validity period of a licence seems to be a waste of time. It can be 100 years.
It will be the frequency of checks for ongoing eligibility that really counts.

 

If the Docs and Police worked efficiently in safeguarding, then either/both would be able to alert licencing if any adverse reaction occurs. That should already be happening anyway!!

[Newbie to this]

Again, we as shooters DO NOT require Police or Doctor involvement, in us going about our legal sport, the Government does, in the interests of public safety.

[Scully]

I intend to contact the NCA in the new year, and will post my findings. 
Am now REALLY going out! Why do women take so long? 😄

Edited December 30, 2024 by Scully

[TIGHTCHOKE]

6 minutes ago, Scully said:

I intend to contact the NCA in the new year, and will post my findings. 
Am now REALLY going out! Why do women take so long? 😄

So that you can post again.  

[old'un]

2 hours ago, Scully said:

I intend to contact the NCA in the new year, and will post my findings. 
Am now REALLY going out! Why do women take so long? 😄

To make you look good when she is on your arm.

 

 

Edited December 30, 2024 by old'un

[Scully]

6 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

So that you can post again.  

Good point. 🙂

4 hours ago, old'un said:

To make you look good when she is on your arm.

 

 

It wouldn’t take THAT long to make me look good! 😄

[Scully]

Have fired off an email to the NCA. 

[Scully]

….and here is their reply. It is a lengthy reply entailing what they do and various links to all manner of illegal matters and how they’re tackling them, but the gist of their reply is in the photo’ shown. 
So the source of this info’ is not available to public scrutiny it would seem, not from this source anyhow, which I find a bit baffling. 

Edited Friday at 13:54 by Scully
Spelling

[clangerman]

37 minutes ago, Scully said:

….and here is there reply. It is a lengthy reply entailing what they do and various links to all manner of illegal matters and how they’re tackling them, but the gist of their reply is in the photo’ shown. 
So the source of this info’ is not available to public scrutiny it would seem, not from this source anyhow, which I find a bit baffling. 

fobbed you of mate as while they are not obliged there is also nothing that stops them sharing the figure either apart from wanting to hide it’s prob zero but at least you tried 

[Piebob]

......but thankfully existing scrutineering measures stopped the attempts, and they were reported accordingly (but we're not going to give you the data).

 

 

[Sweet11-87]

"the national crime agency (NCA) needs the HELP of the firearms trade and certificate holders to prevent legal firearms being unknowingly transferred into unlawful possession"

...but when asked how, why and when on the subject certificate holders and the shooting governing body basically get told mind your own business. Im sorry im pro basc 99% of the time but this shouldn't be getting shared this should be challenged. Without examples, statistics and figures this is just  hearsay thats damaging shooting by suggesting we need even tighter licensing measures.

seriously if its happening we should know where and how.  more than a million tickets in the uk how many have been forged, copied  or nicked? and how can you tell a real from a fake? if you want our help give us some tools.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

On 25/12/2024 at 08:27, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Whilst not a "non Story", without some figures to support the statement it is all rather wishy washy. I would have hoped that BASC would have raised the points that have been listed by the PW Members above before they just passed the story on.Come on BASC, you can and MUST do better.

As I said much earlier.

[Conor O'Gorman]

BASC has shared the NCA awareness campaign across social media and in emails to members/subscribers. Over 150,000 people reached and I have not had a single query about this. I appreciate that several PW members seem to have concerns and my concern is that PW is increasingly being infected by the pandemic of paranoia on social media promoted by conspiracy theorists on every subject imaginable.

Here is the NCA update:

https://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/what-we-do/crime-threats/firearms/know-your-uk-firearms-documents

 

 

[jall25]

10 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

BASC has shared the NCA awareness campaign across social media and in emails to members/subscribers. Over 150,000 people reached and I have not had a single query about this. I appreciate that several PW members seem to have concerns and my concern is that PW is increasingly being infected by the pandemic of paranoia on social media promoted by conspiracy theorists on every subject imaginable.

Here is the NCA update:

https://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/what-we-do/crime-threats/firearms/know-your-uk-firearms-documents

 

 

I think you do get queries Conor but seem unwilling to give them "air" time 

Please see above sensible and fair post from Sweet 11

[Scully]

11 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

BASC has shared the NCA awareness campaign across social media and in emails to members/subscribers. Over 150,000 people reached and I have not had a single query about this. I appreciate that several PW members seem to have concerns and my concern is that PW is increasingly being infected by the pandemic of paranoia on social media promoted by conspiracy theorists on every subject imaginable.

Here is the NCA update:

https://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/what-we-do/crime-threats/firearms/know-your-uk-firearms-documents

 

 

I can’t admit to knowing 150,000 firearms owners, but I do know a lot, and since you posted the claims of the NCA I’ve done a lot of beating and shooting, and a lot of asking, and not a single person ( and they consist of shooters from the Borders region of Scotland, Durham and Newcastle, and all regions in between, has heard anything regarding stolen or forged tickets. I’ve no doubt it could have happened, but if so to what extent? Has there been a ‘surge’ or is it simply yet another government sponsored dept’ trying to push an agenda we all know exists? 
We are privy to all manner of government statistics including gun crime, knife crime, drug fuelled crime, crimes against children and all manner of serious matter, but for some reason NOT statistics regarding a ‘surge’ in certificate fraud. 🤷‍♂️

Is it paranoia to query anything and everything involving our government departments and shooting, or ridiculously naive to simply accept whatever information they churn out?

Perhaps if BASC in their next newsletter, asked those more than 150,000 people to contact them if they have been or know of anyone who has been a victim of attempted certificate fraud, we may have a better picture? Still nothing to compare it to a ‘surge’ of course however, as we don’t have the figure it surged from!  Just a thought. 

[ehb102]

12 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

BASC has shared the NCA awareness campaign across social media and in emails to members/subscribers. Over 150,000 people reached and I have not had a single query about this. I appreciate that several PW members seem to have concerns and my concern is that PW is increasingly being infected by the pandemic of paranoia on social media promoted by conspiracy theorists on every subject imaginable.

 

 

We're not conspiracy theorists, Conor, we're just calling you out on your lack of intellectual rigor, yet again. My concern is that BASC is being represented by you, and you are unable to cope with people who point out you are wrong or you have failed to consider another view point. And I have receipts on that last one. 

[old'un]

14 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

BASC has shared the NCA awareness campaign across social media and in emails to members/subscribers. Over 150,000 people reached and I have not had a single query about this. I appreciate that several PW members seem to have concerns and my concern is that PW is increasingly being infected by the pandemic of paranoia on social media promoted by conspiracy theorists on every subject imaginable.

Here is the NCA update:

https://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/what-we-do/crime-threats/firearms/know-your-uk-firearms-documents

 

 

Perhaps its because its a non event, there is no surge in the fraudulent use of firearms licences.

Or to use their words….

“This year, an increasing number of fraudulent firearms documents have been used in an attempt to unlawfully acquire legally held firearms”

Pick a Number??????????

[Down South]

3 hours ago, ehb102 said:

appreciate that several PW members seem to have concerns and my concern is that PW is increasingly being infected by the pandemic of paranoia on social media promoted by conspiracy theorists on every subject imaginable

Yes Connor, more than a few PW members have genuine concerns about this “increasing number of fraudulent firearms documents”, where is the evidence? If the NCA can’t/won’t releases details then it’s just smoke and Oakham. Another stick to beat shooters and shooting with. Also Connor, as a representative of “the voice of shooting”, not, I find your comment regarding PW members as “being infected by a pandemic of paranoia”, very arrogant and if this is the general attitude of BASC reps then it’s no wonder you get a grilling every time the association aligns the membership to a cause that further diminishes their perceived ideas of the security and future of shooting. BTW, I am not a BASC member and the association doe not speak for me!

[Dave-G]

2 hours ago, old'un said:

Perhaps its because its a non event, there is no surge in the fraudulent use of firearms licences.

Or to use their words….

“This year, an increasing number of fraudulent firearms documents have been used in an attempt to unlawfully acquire legally held firearms”

Pick a Number??????????

Perhaps sir Kier is lining up a new job for himself when Labour finally realises he's a wrongun

[clangerman]

16 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

PW is increasingly being infected by the pandemic of paranoia on social media promoted by conspiracy theorists on every subject imaginable.

 

easily cured pack your deviously worded dig at our mods and don’t come back!