Trump and Zelensky Oval Office meeting

[steve1066]

10 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

I think you raise some very good points. Your last paragraph is interesting as you've eluded to the future for our military. I genuinely don't think there's been a more dangerous time as far as conflict goes. War used to be man on man and there would be lulls in the battle of relative safety. 

With drone warfare, thermal vision and AI on the horizon, not to mention near peers catching up and the West falling apart by the destruction of national pride and a great number of people with allegiance to other countries rather than their own, it's a dangerous time for our boys and girls. 

Exactly, and yes not forgetting the girls who serve too.

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, So if Ukraine give/sell the USA all these millions of tons on rare minerals ? What then ? , Will that stop Putin ? , Will Trump let him keep the vast eastern areas now taken by force,  Ukraine will need Billions of $ to rebuild the Country ? Maybe Trump will want Russia to pay ? or Not, Who !!!!, Was it all worth the 1000s of people killed on both sides after Putin invaded ??

[clangerman]

11 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Your question is so ridiculous it doesn't merit a response but I will try. 

You can have an opinion about an unjust war without having to go and fight for it, by your logic, as a Putin supporter why haven't you gone and fought for Russia, you could join the N Korean group and launch one of their ww1 style raids? 

What about if your 90, are you excused from taking arms up then for believing Russias invasion is wrong or do they also have to fight? 

And finally, for all you know people may already have seen action out there, they might be unlikely to share it on here for a large number of reasons, but your question is crass. 

I have more sense than to fight for anyone but my own country so can’t be a putin supporter and lucky I’m not 90 freezing while you cheer Zelensky wasting our pensioners heating allowance on his war before challenging other peoples allegiance to their country you should try supporting our own! 

[steve1066]

1 hour ago, johnphilip said:

An interesting take on the situation at the moment 

 This is someone's view. Make of it what you will .

I know the events in the White House was like watching a car crash in slow motion,  but I came across this comment, on a post i was following.
Makes you think differently about what we may have witnessed .....
Many of you probably watched what took place between Donald Trump and Zelensky tonight.
Whether you're a Democrat or a Republican, you might be thinking to yourself, Oh my God, Donald Trump just screwed up.

However, as a lifelong practitioner of martial arts, strategy, and philosophy, let me explain the difference between what you believe you witnessed and what actually happened.
Donald Trump has been under constant political persecution since the beginning of his first term.
Over time, he has learned to be patient and calculated.

Tonight, Zelensky was invited to the Oval Office. However, both Trump and JD Vance knew exactly what Zelensky was going to do—he would use this opportunity, in front of the American people, to make a power play, Both Trump and Vance anticipated this.

When Zelensky began appealing to the emotions of the American people, JD Vance stepped in, accusing him of disrespecting Donald Trump.
This was brilliant strategy. It’s important to understand that Zelensky is trying to gain access to NATO.
Trump knew this but could not allow it to happen.
If Ukraine joins NATO, the U.S. would be bound by NATO’s collective defense agreement—an attack on one is an attack on all.

Now consider the larger implications: Ukraine and Russia despise each other.
If Ukraine were to become a NATO member, any future skirmish between them would obligate the U.S. to enter into direct conflict with Russia, this would mean World War III.
And if that happened, China would have to choose a side—they would almost certainly align with Russia.

So what you witnessed tonight was a setup.
Trump and JD Vance knew that the only way to achieve peace was to strategically align, at least on the surface, with Russia.
Why? Because Russia would never sign a peace treaty if Ukraine were admitted into NATO.
This is why Trump dismantled Zelenskyy’s argument. And when Zelensky, seeing his play failing, tried to backtrack and offer a treaty, Trump refused.

Zelenskyy’s real intent was clear—he would not agree to peace unless security guarantees were in place.
But what was he actually saying?
That NATO must accept Ukraine.
However, Russia would never agree to peace, knowing that NATO, their historical adversary, would surround them.

Zelensky, Putin, and Trump all knew this.
Zelensky, thinking he had Democrats' support, believed he could make this bold move on live television.
But Trump and Vance saw right through it and outmaneuvered him.
They knew that, in the short term, Democrats and the media would try to use this moment against them.
But they also knew they had two years before midterms to prove their strategy was the right one.
So they held their ground—brilliantly so.

Now, Zelensky will have no choice but to back down and accept Trump's terms.
But here’s the genius part—Trump is actually protecting Ukraine without dragging the U.S. into war.
By negotiating a mineral deal, Trump ensures that Americans will be involved in Ukraine’s mining industry. This prevents Russia from launching an invasion, because attacking Ukraine would mean endangering American lives—something that would force the U.S. to respond.

Trump played both sides like a master chess player. In the end, Zelensky will have no choice but to concede, because without U.S. support, Ukraine cannot win a prolonged war against Russia.
And once U.S. companies have mining operations in Ukraine, Putin will be unable to attack without triggering massive international consequences.
Don’t underestimate Donald Trump.
In this game of chess, he’s 10 moves ahead of everyone.

Credit:benson

 

Very interesting if true, I hope so!

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, This was not Ukraines War , Russia Invaded Ukraine, Putin wants back what was the old Russian Empire , USA only cares for the Minerals they do not have, Where does that leave Ukraine Citizens , 1000s dead, 1000s of Homes destroyed, Vast areas of  Ukraine will never recover, Let see what the USA do when Ukraine signs over the Mineral Deal ??

[old man]

14 hours ago, steve1066 said:

I have just watched the Oval Office YouTube, you must be really proud of Trump and Vance, if that is how you do business in regards to possible world wars, then we are definitely better off without America and Europe will have to deal with Russia themselves. 

Agreed.

I haven't watched it but feel from what has been aired news wise that Trump and Vance are as dangerous as Putin?

[johnphilip]

38 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, This was not Ukraines War , Russia Invaded Ukraine, Putin wants back what was the old Russian Empire , USA only cares for the Minerals they do not have, Where does that leave Ukraine Citizens , 1000s dead, 1000s of Homes destroyed, Vast areas of  Ukraine will never recover, Let see what the USA do when Ukraine signs over the Mineral Deal ??

We can't  undo what has happened  , we can only live in hope. For a better future , how that comes about is talks , has to be give and take .

Tis better a man. Works in a field that dies on one. That long post I just posted,  hope it may be the solution. Lots of people hate. Trump even if he found a cure for cancer they would still hate him .

But this has. Not got to be about him , it's got to be about a solution. 

To me I am more concerned about what is happening to my country,  how our present government  is helping in its decline.  I have never  hated a leader like we have now. 

 

[yickdaz]

2 hours ago, steve1066 said:

Very interesting if true, I hope so!

Great post, but putting US soldiers on the ground to aid security for minerals work that supposedly will take place could be a perfect moment for someone to upset the applecart and some dodgy dealing, like a strike by terrorists on those US soldiers blame it on Russia then you have a very tense situation between Russia and the US 

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, yickdaz said:

Great post, but putting US soldiers on the ground to aid security for minerals work that supposedly will take place

There is no way Russia will sign up to something that puts US armed forces in Ukraine.

[johnphilip]

19 minutes ago, yickdaz said:

Great post, but putting US soldiers on the ground to aid security for minerals work that supposedly will take place could be a perfect moment for someone to upset the applecart and some dodgy dealing, like a strike by terrorists on those US soldiers blame it on Russia then you have a very tense situation between Russia and the US 

I don't think it would involve  troops on the ground . 

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

USA only cares for the Minerals they do not have

The US has plenty of minerals, or the means to buy them from elsewhere, this is about putting back money into US coffers to offset the cost of their aid.

 

3 hours ago, islandgun said:

Or Zelenski played trump in a masterclass of double bluff..

Zelenskys sorry letter discounts him winning that bluff.
The fact is, he met with the democrats before the White house meeting, the word is they told him not to accept Trumps deal, Trump and Vance would have known this, and prepared accordingly.

2 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

This was not Ukraines War

Well, it is now.
Ask yourself this, a few weeks after the invasion, there was the possibility of a truce, a way to bring peace back.
A phone call from Biden, and Boris flies to the rescue to promise Zelensky whatever he needed to continue fighting, to keep people dying. Why ?
Macron suggested a one month ceasefire yesterday, to stop the killing while the peace efforts continue, most EU countries, the UK and Ukraine, rejected it. Why ?
When Biden was in power, he never once tried, in any way shape or form to negotiate ANY peaceful solution to the conflict. Why ?
Nothing that Trump has done in the 2 months hes been in power, to end this killing, COULDNT have been done by Biden. In fact Biden could have stopped the invasion before it even started, IF he had wanted to.
Instead, he basically told Russia they could invade, and the US/NATO wouldnt get involved. Why ?

So tell me, who is the warmonger, and who is the peacemaker ?

[NoBodyImportant]

23 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Just to play devils advocate here, Britains colonial escapades around the same time of the genocides against first nations people make for some very grim reading.
Our recent 'adventures ' in Afghan and Iraq are also a worthy mention for body count alone.

 

 

 

A fun piece of British history from last weekend.  I went to the celebration of Fort Dobbs.   The British erected this block house to protect the western Carolina colony from natives during the French and Indian war.  Shawnee Indians were raiding British trade outpost in Virginia.  Well a ban of Cherokee from Carolina ( British allies) were accidentally attacked in Virginia (mistaken for Shawnee) By a group of British and colonialist. The Cherokee went to the British governor in Carolina to demand money for the 40 dead Cherokee.  British Governor told them no,  Carlolina was not going to pay money for an attack up in Virginia.  So the Cherokee went on a kill whitey hunt in Carolina.   25 british and 25 colonial militia  were left in the block house to defend 1000 muskets that the British had planned to train colonists to fight the French and Indians. They held off for a week before the Indians left.  So every year on feb 27th they have period actors dress up.  They have bread bakers, black smiths, armors, farmers to look and talk to.  

3 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, So if Ukraine give/sell the USA all these millions of tons on rare minerals ? What then ? , Will that stop Putin ? , Will Trump let him keep the vast eastern areas now taken by force,  Ukraine will need Billions of $ to rebuild the Country ? Maybe Trump will want Russia to pay ? or Not, Who !!!!, Was it all worth the 1000s of people killed on both sides after Putin invaded ??

All of the rare earth minerals are in Donetsk and Luhansk.  Those are what Russia currently holds. 

[steve1066]

1 hour ago, yickdaz said:

Great post, but putting US soldiers on the ground to aid security for minerals work that supposedly will take place could be a perfect moment for someone to upset the applecart and some dodgy dealing, like a strike by terrorists on those US soldiers blame it on Russia then you have a very tense situation between Russia and the US 

Very true yickdaz

[NoBodyImportant]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

There is no way Russia will sign up to something that puts US armed forces in Ukraine.

If you watch all of the tank killing videos from Reddit a suspicious amount of Ukrainian fighters that were firing the missiles at armored targets had a Texas/Alabama accent.   Seriously,  most of the Ak M4 firefights  you watch and hear Ukrainian language .  But an uncomfortable amount of times you see a shoulder fired missile you hear a very American accent saying something in perfect English.  It’s very suspicious to say the least.  

[islandgun]

4 hours ago, Rewulf said:

 

 

Zelenskys sorry letter discounts him winning that bluff.
 

 

Its all part of the plan😁

[steve1066]

5 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said:

If you watch all of the tank killing videos from Reddit a suspicious amount of Ukrainian fighters that were firing the missiles at armored targets had a Texas/Alabama accent.   Seriously,  most of the Ak M4 firefights  you watch and hear Ukrainian language .  But an uncomfortable amount of times you see a shoulder fired missile you hear a very American accent saying something in perfect English.  It’s very suspicious to say the least.  

I guess you will hear all sorts of different languages and accents, there are thousands of volunteers from around the world fighting on behalf of the Ukraine

Just a reminder Americans do not speak perfect English😂

[Mice!]

Well I've just skipped 8 pages of he said she said.

That right there is the biggest issue, we have more and more illegal immigrants turning up daily, yet those in power are more concerned what's going on in the Ukraine, funny how it wasn't an issue when it was Ukraine killing Ukraine. 

Trump is putting Americans first, exactly what a President or PM should do. 

[johnphilip]

38 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Well I've just skipped 8 pages of he said she said.

That right there is the biggest issue, we have more and more illegal immigrants turning up daily, yet those in power are more concerned what's going on in the Ukraine, funny how it wasn't an issue when it was Ukraine killing Ukraine. 

Trump is putting Americans first, exactly what a President or PM should do. 

Yep sums it up perfectly. 

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Mice! said:

funny how it wasn't an issue when it was Ukraine killing Ukraine

Exactly.

[ordnance]

On 03/03/2025 at 21:22, Stonepark said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/10/azov-far-right-fighters-ukraine-neo-nazis

One group, good reason for Russia to invade killing tens of thousands of Ukrainians 🙄

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, ordnance said:

One group, good reason for Russia to invade killing tens of thousands of Ukrainians 🙄

Not the reason, but here's a fun fact..

In 2018 US Congress banned supplying arms to the neo nazi Ukrainian militias. You know, those ones they say don't exist ?

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/380483-congress-bans-arms-to-controversial-ukrainian-militia-linked-to-neo-nazis/

Guess what ? The Biden administration repealed it.

[Penelope]

14 hours ago, islandgun said:

Its all part of the plan😁

Oi, get your own script, that's my line 🤣🤣😉

12 hours ago, Mice! said:

Well I've just skipped 8 pages of he said she said.

That right there is the biggest issue, we have more and more illegal immigrants turning up daily, yet those in power are more concerned what's going on in the Ukraine, funny how it wasn't an issue when it was Ukraine killing Ukraine. 

Trump is putting Americans first, exactly what a President or PM should do. 

1,300 dinghy invaders yesterday alone.

7 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Guess what ? The Biden administration repealed it.

Had to protect Hunter's grift.

[old man]

13 hours ago, Mice! said:

Well I've just skipped 8 pages of he said she said.

That right there is the biggest issue, we have more and more illegal immigrants turning up daily, yet those in power are more concerned what's going on in the Ukraine, funny how it wasn't an issue when it was Ukraine killing Ukraine. 

Trump is putting Americans first, exactly what a President or PM should do. 

Could never happen here, the population count less than a few minutes of publicity trying to bull dung on the world stage?

 

 

 

[B686]

17 hours ago, Mice! said:

Well I've just skipped 8 pages of he said she said.

That right there is the biggest issue, we have more and more illegal immigrants turning up daily, yet those in power are more concerned what's going on in the Ukraine, funny how it wasn't an issue when it was Ukraine killing Ukraine. 

Trump is putting Americans first, exactly what a President or PM should do. 

Seeing that creepy creeps face puts me off my food. He is the most noncey creepy looking ****** out there ! 
Wish he would just disappear never to be seen again.

[Raja Clavata]

On 05/03/2025 at 19:38, Mice! said:

Well I've just skipped 8 pages of he said she said.

That right there is the biggest issue, we have more and more illegal immigrants turning up daily, yet those in power are more concerned what's going on in the Ukraine, funny how it wasn't an issue when it was Ukraine killing Ukraine. 

Trump is putting Americans first, exactly what a President or PM should do. 

Seems like you skipped 8 pages and related an entirely different topic back to the only one that seems to matter to some.

If y’all seriously can’t see the distinction between defending Ukraine’s border vs our illegal immigrant issue nor why it was less relevant when Ukrainians were killing Ukrainians then might we also reasonably assume you, like Trump, also don’t know the difference between rare and raw earth materials as well as transgenic and transgender?