Eley Cartridges - Advice Wanted

[hp01mp]

Hi All,

 

A little advice on cartridges would be much appreciated.

 

My gun is a Beretta o/u Silver Pigeon and having tried many different types of shell by far the best has been Eley Grand Prix in a 30g 6. I've used both the plastic and paper case cartridges and they both seem to suit me and my gun very well.

 

However...,

 

I do seem to be having far more wounding than I would like, even on pigeon. I used to shoot 32g 5 Hull High Pheasant which didn't wound - it was pretty much always a clean miss or a clean kill. But I don't want to shoot anything punchier than 30g's as 32g's do seem to knock both me and my gun around more than I would like. My uncle attributes an early retirement from shooting (65ish) to a dodgy shoulder caused by punchy cartridges and I don't want to make the same mistake!

 

I thought I'd solved the problem with Hull 3 Crowns 32g 5 as they shoot really smoothly and are actually softer on the shoulder even than Hull High Pheasant 30g's. Alas, Hull have now in their wisdom discontinued the line! :(

 

Eley Grand Prix aren't made in 32g with the exception of paper cases (pretty much the most expensive cartridge on the market) and Grand Prix High Velocity. The latter appears to be bismuth(?) but thanks to Eley's total lack of a decent website I don't know whether this is the case... does anyone know?

 

Alternatively, does anyone know how effective Eley Grand Prix 30g 5's are? I've read quite a lot of stuff that suggests that 30g 5's produce poor patterns.

 

Thanks to anyone who has been prepared to read this extremely long post and offer some advice! I'd like to be sure before I buy another slab.

 

Many thanks!

[fuzzypigeon]

you will always have the odd wounded bird fella.... personally i stick 30/32 gram 6 through mine at the high stuff and when the pigeons are playing ball and decoying well i'll throw 28g of 7.5 black gold at them, i shoot with full choke all the time in my auto and this suits me i will wound the odd one but have more clean kills then wounded birds, as for eley the only eley carts i have used was the hb pigeon or whatever they are called 30gram 6.5 and i liked them but not as much as black gold.

 

so in reality my reply has not really helped with your question

Edited November 10, 2012 by fuzzypigeon

[P~MX]

personally I decoy & root shoot pigeons with 28grm 7.5's with a 3/8 choke, for me it's all about knowin my killin range and when not to take on a shot I can't kill cleanly

[Vince Green]

Actually, although I really hate to restart the old debate, try using a smaller shot. Pigeons have a really tiny body under all those feathers, much less than half the size of a pheasant or a rabbit . The pattern for 5s or 6s IMO means a lot of single rather than multiple hits. Don't take my word for it. Expend a few cartridges on a few sheets of old wall paper and look at the holes, then make a piece of cardboard with a pigeon body size hole in it and see how many places in the pattern a pigeon could be and only get one pellet (or none!).

 

Have hull really discontinued the cartridges? sounds a bit drastic! but I love Hull Cartridges and always have. However, I think a bit of pattern testing will strengthen your confidence about whats happening at the other end

[Guest cookoff013]

Hi All,

 

A little advice on cartridges would be much appreciated.

 

My gun is a Beretta o/u Silver Pigeon and having tried many different types of shell by far the best has been Eley Grand Prix in a 30g 6. I've used both the plastic and paper case cartridges and they both seem to suit me and my gun very well.

 

However...,

 

I do seem to be having far more wounding than I would like, even on pigeon. I used to shoot 32g 5 Hull High Pheasant which didn't wound - it was pretty much always a clean miss or a clean kill. But I don't want to shoot anything punchier than 30g's as 32g's do seem to knock both me and my gun around more than I would like. My uncle attributes an early retirement from shooting (65ish) to a dodgy shoulder caused by punchy cartridges and I don't want to make the same mistake!

 

I thought I'd solved the problem with Hull 3 Crowns 32g 5 as they shoot really smoothly and are actually softer on the shoulder even than Hull High Pheasant 30g's. Alas, Hull have now in their wisdom discontinued the line! :(

 

Eley Grand Prix aren't made in 32g with the exception of paper cases (pretty much the most expensive cartridge on the market) and Grand Prix High Velocity. The latter appears to be bismuth(?) but thanks to Eley's total lack of a decent website I don't know whether this is the case... does anyone know?

 

Alternatively, does anyone know how effective Eley Grand Prix 30g 5's are? I've read quite a lot of stuff that suggests that 30g 5's produce poor patterns.

 

Thanks to anyone who has been prepared to read this extremely long post and offer some advice! I'd like to be sure before I buy another slab.

 

Many thanks!

99% of the shells you have tried will kill birds. even the dreaded 7.5s.

the 32g of #5s kill well, because they are exceptional for the circumstances of "pigeon"

shame those hull cartridges are not available. they sound nice.

i cant believe you are discussing poor patterns and performance and you havent even tried them....

 

its not the best senario but use 7s as a minimum. i dont like 7s but they have a good following here. i prefer 6s or even 5s.

shoot 1oz loads, it shouldnt affect your shoulder.

 

alternates should be 24g #6 or something similar.... the shells do exist.

 

i do have a personal preference of 28g of #5, but i love slow loads. even that shot crawling out the barrel will pattern GREAT, and perform well beyond your and my skills.

 

as for choke, alittle can hold things together, and enough can do wonders.

[Guest cookoff013]

Actually, although I really hate to restart the old debate, try using a smaller shot. Pigeons have a really tiny body under all those feathers, much less than half the size of a pheasant or a rabbit . The pattern for 5s or 6s IMO means a lot of single rather than multiple hits. Don't take my word for it. Expend a few cartridges on a few sheets of old wall paper and look at the holes, then make a piece of cardboard with a pigeon body size hole in it and see how many places in the pattern a pigeon could be and only get one pellet (or none!).

 

Have hull really discontinued the cartridges? sounds a bit drastic! but I love Hull Cartridges and always have. However, I think a bit of pattern testing will strengthen your confidence about whats happening at the other end

 

hull have chopped a few loads out this year. there was too much cross over. as to the debate between all the shotsizes,

patterns, speed, shotsizes, are all open to debate, but with the right load in any shotsize will do the job. i`ve homeloaded and patterned a few loads, one load in particlular was 32g #4. and there is nothing that would have escaped that. the pattern was "beyond" resonable density, and i dont think even a **** could get through the pattern. i got x full pattern from a 1/4 choke. a perfect pizza circle completely obliterated.

[bruno22rf]

It might pay you to pace out the distance that you are taking your shots-if you need 32g of 5 shot you are doing something wrong.At normal ranges 28/30g of 7.5's will kill every time.

[Floating Chamber]

Invest in a slab of Lyalvale 'Pigeon Special' 30gram No. 6. (2.6mm)

[webber]

Have a look at the FIOCCHI game cartridges here http://www.norgascartridges.co.uk

 

webber

[aister]

i have done really well with hull high pheasant 32 gram 5's (lighter recoil than the black golds i usually use). i have had some good kills on duck this season and the last.

hull still have three crowns on their web site, its under traditional game loads.

[soother223]

i would just see what shell patterns best in your shooter...

i have a Berretta semi auto & it likes hi flyers & clear pigeons, however my mates ultralight likes eley impax!

if i get days where i start getting the odd wounded bird i just give a little more lead.. the way i see it is that if you hit the rear end of a bird there's not much in the way of vitals there, however if you give a little too much you get head & neck & those birds go down!! so i'd rather give too much than not enough!

[hp01mp]

Thanks for all the advice on this post chaps.

 

Regarding the Hull 3 Crowns, I wasn't quite accurate when I said that they'd discontinued the line, rather they've discontinued the 32g/5 combination and now don't go higher than 30g, which is a real pity as it's such a smooth shooting cartridge that it actually feels softer on the shoulder to me than their High Pheasant 30g's! I don't know where the likes of Purdey and H&H are going to get their 65mm super smooth 32g carts (that won't knock you over if you're shooting a light sbs) now, as I understand these were all repackaged 3 Crowns.

 

The 30g 6 Grand Prixs still seem to throw the best patterns from my gun, but I just want that little bit of extra reach to cleanly kill the occasional high pheasant (very occasional sadly!) with the least possible additional recoil.

 

A high quality 31g 5.5 cartridge would be perfect.... if only! I know William Powell do something like this but apparently they're still quite rough on the shoulder.

[Liam-1990]

Just bought a slab of Gamebore clear pigeon 30g 6s only used a few so far but taking them decoying sunday so will know better then.

But first impression is good worth a try.

[Dangerous Brian]

A high quality 31g 5.5 cartridge would be perfect.... if only! I know William Powell do something like this but apparently they're still quite rough on the shoulder.

 

If you are after a size 5.5 then have a look at some of the Italian offerings (Fiocchi etc). Their size 6 is equivalent to our 5.5. Watch out for the European (and Spanish I think) sizes as I think these are a full size up on ours. Someone who knows a bit more about it will probably be along in a bit and will no doubt fill in the blanks. As for 31g? No idea who else would do those comercially.

 

Allways liked Eley Grand Prix. I grew up on the paper cased ones and they smelled fantastic! Still like the plastic cased ones but I think they are a bit punchier. My Dad liked 30g of fives and I don't mind either fives or sixes. Both pattern quality and killing power for either plastic or paper versions is sadly more than adequate for my capabilities so I am more than happy to use them all day long. Also, Grand Prix in 24g sixes for the 20 bore are nice to use and are great on pigeons. I have a box of 32g VIP (also for 20 bore) that will probably sting a bit on the shoulder.

[aga man]

just to throw in another choice. try these hard hitting consistant and reasonable price. and not too punchy even through the side by side.

[stu nesling]

rc do a 31g load of italian 6's(which are 5.5's) cant think what they are called at the moment.

[motty]

rc do a 31g load of italian 6's(which are 5.5's) cant think what they are called at the moment.

Titano

[Catweazle]

What about Lyalvale Express Supreme Game 30g No6 ? They're quite soft on the shoulder, and they pattern well in my gun.

[dodeer]

The new Hull High Pheasant Extreme use continential shot sizes so a 6 is a 5.5, and 5 is a 4.5.

[Alycidon]

Eley Grand Prix High Pheasant, same as std GP but with a taller metal head like the Hull.

 

30gr of 5s, almost everything dead in the air, whats not is dead where it comes to ground, very rare to loose one.

 

 

 

I had years with the Hull High Pheasant then when I wanted another batch they were quite a bit dearer than Eley so we had 5 years worth of Eley, very similar performance to the Hull.

 

A

[Big Al]

GB 32g 6s (Spanish loads by Maxam - same parent company as Eley) are equivalent to 5.5 and are a great low price alternative.

 

[GingerCat]

Pattern test some carts. Personally I use 30/32 g clear pigeon through cylinder and quarter choke. Kills just fine in my gun. Love 5 special game but only for pheasants and rabbits. Depends on what your shooting and how it patterns. U wont know till u shoot some paper and get some confidence in what it can deliver

[Amazed]

just to throw in another choice. try these hard hitting consistant and reasonable price. and not too punchy even through the side by side.

 

I have just got some of theses to try out not a bad price really I will be using a sbs hope ther kind on my shoulder

[aga man]

I have just got some of theses to try out not a bad price really I will be using a sbs hope ther kind on my shoulder

you won't be dis apointed mate i was using these shells in the early 90's and still use them now. my sxs is full choke in left barrel and i get clean kills on crows at 60 yds easy

[Alycidon]

In a light SBS I would look more toward 28gr loads, much nicer to shoot especially if you are putting a few through quickly. Heavier SBS then 30s will be fine.

 

A