Pigeon behaviour differences round the country?

[yickdaz]

Whilst observation and field craft once the pigeons have been found play a huge part, I'll argue that certain areas hold a lot more pigeons than others and it's not just a matter of putting in the miles to achieve those big bags regularly (though that is clearly what it takes to maximise the potential bag in your area).

The biggest factor seems to be just how long that heavy flightline lasts, most good ton plus days will have a spell where things go crazy and you shoot a lot in a small period of time but this rarely lasts and is the difference between a good day and the huge 300+ you read of regularly by some.

It's this that I don't believe can be predicted, and in some areas the numbers just won't allow those bags/constant flightlines that don't dry up no matter how right you get everything?!

more or less what I said in an earlier post, I totally agree it all depends on a steady flow of birds coming to the decoys or within range of you, we shoot a lot of 20,30, 40, 50 bags throughout the year and they were the maxium we could take off the field we both can shoot so say a bag of 30 no more than 40 shots fired so its not down to poor shooting why we don,t shoot the bigger bags, its just that the birds stop flighting after shooting 30, or 40 period we get the 100 plus reason being they kept on coming and the flightlines didn't dry up, but having a lot of land to look at and a lot of birds in the area/region helps somewhat then the rest is down to you

[motty]

WHAT MOTTY, agreeing with a point I have wasted hours on this forun trying to make? I'll wake up in a minute!!!

Seroiusly, one of my equally frustated Essex pigeon shooters brought a day in Wiltshire the other week - different world. A magnet and a few dead birds on an estate where the pigoens are not shot often and the crops are managed to suit - 5 of them shoot over 800!!!

He'd have me knocking on his door asking for guidance!!

Sorry, i'm not agreeing with what you have said in the past. I have shot several times in Essex and i know a few folk there who also struggle on oilseed rape at this time of year - that includes Peter Theobald. I'm not sure why the pigeons co-operate better where PC is located, but that's just the way it is.

Still, the best bag i have shot on rape (before March) is 83. I have shot several 100+ bags on rape through March and beyond.

Absolutely correct .

 

Reconnaissance is the name of the game.

 

My golden rule is "go to where the pigeons are, not where you want them to be"

That 'rule' is correct, but that doesn't matter if the pigeons won't commit to decoys and are in one huge flock.

[DEADLY PLUMBER]

All winter me and the people I shoot with on a estate in Kent full of rape have struggled To get numbers over 8 but in the last 2 weeks a lot of pigeons have turned up and seem keen to feed we have had bags of 58, 22, 25, 32 in the last 2 weeks, I do not have any clue why this is ? I do hope it continues though but I doubt it will

You might be finding the birds are heading into spring mode.

Now the weather is getting a bit warmer. Round my way

they are cooing and starting to pair up on mild days.

The flocks are starting to break up a bit.

But if it goes cold it will be back to winter mode.

They will have to feed mostly on rape still as their is

not much else about at the moment.

[turbo33]

Absolutely correct .

 

Reconnaissance is the name of the game.

 

My golden rule is "go to where the pigeons are, not where you want them to be"

 

Sometimes BB, but I could take you to three of my farms, and show you many hundreds, of pigeons, possibly close on thousands, and no amount of "observation" , recon or otherwise would get them committing to your decoys. And round here certainly, it would matter not if you had 50 thawed birds and watched from 200 yards...... absolutely no chance. Now come the summer, if they re around, forget real birds,you wouldn't even have to bother re painting your decoys!!

[kitchrat]

Sorry, i'm not agreeing with what you have said in the past. I have shot several times in Essex and i know a few folk there who also struggle on oilseed rape at this time of year - that includes Peter Theobald. I'm not sure why the pigeons co-operate better where PC is located, but that's just the way it is.

Still, the best bag i have shot on rape (before March) is 83. I have shot several 100+ bags on rape through March and beyond.

That 'rule' is correct, but that doesn't matter if the pigeons won't commit to decoys and are in one huge flock.

That's OK then, I thought you were getting less "dis-agreeable" and would loose your place on the famous Monty Python sketch!! Of course, you could have been agreeing in your spare time!!

 

Sometimes BB, but I could take you to three of my farms, and show you many hundreds, of pigeons, possibly close on thousands, and no amount of "observation" , recon or otherwise would get them committing to your decoys. And round here certainly, it would matter not if you had 50 thawed birds and watched from 200 yards...... absolutely no chance. Now come the summer, if they re around, forget real birds,you wouldn't even have to bother re painting your decoys!!

Agreed!!

[JDog]

 

Sometimes BB, but I could take you to three of my farms, and show you many hundreds, of pigeons, possibly close on thousands, and no amount of "observation" , recon or otherwise would get them committing to your decoys. And round here certainly, it would matter not if you had 50 thawed birds and watched from 200 yards...... absolutely no chance. Now come the summer, if they re around, forget real birds,you wouldn't even have to bother re painting your decoys!!

 

Having spoken to 'Supertash' this weekend and at other times I get the impression that it is not the observation that gets the pigeons to commit to decoys but it is observation which determines which flocks of birds will come back to feed.

[ditchman]

its the regular "observation" of the bead at the end of your barrel...that gets the numbers !

[silver pigeon69]

could it be down to the weather/temperature? We have had a relatively mild winter in Sussex/Kent and no real snow. Probably a lot warmer than places further north.

[pigeon controller]

could it be down to the weather/temperature? We have had a relatively mild winter in Sussex/Kent and no real snow. Probably a lot warmer than places further north.

Over the past months we've had + 10 and -2 so the have fed in both temperatures

[pigeon controller]

Having spoken to 'Supertash' this weekend and at other times I get the impression that it is not the observation that gets the pigeons to commit to decoys but it is observation which determines which flocks of birds will come back to feed.

It's not a matter of the number in the flock it's have they been feeding on the field . It's like JDog leaving a drink on the table you know he will return??.

[turbo33]

 

Having spoken to 'Supertash' this weekend and at other times I get the impression that it is not the observation that gets the pigeons to commit to decoys but it is observation which determines which flocks of birds will come back to feed.

 

Now, being able to predict the future is going way beyond my skill level

[stuy]

Interesting thread, I was out yesterday with 4 other guns to give me a hand, same scenario lots of birds , weather was a bit cold but we managed 6 between us , I thought I had it covered, but I was wrong they moved further down the valley I had been watching the field s for a week but these birds came to the field in one big lump of birds, maybe with a stff breeze it could of been better, we just have so much rape here in hereford , but I will keep turning up doing what I call the duty shoots(farmers rings!) And keep looking for the winter ton

[Catamong]

This is an interesting thread, with some good points being made by Guys who clearly know a bit about the game.

 

Winter Rape shooting can be very frustrating, at this time of the year and in my area it's now rare to get decent bags.

 

For the first time in many years I've decided to keep a shoot diary for 2015, and so far this year I've had 8 decoying sessions over Rape, best bag 92, worst bag 1.. , average per visit 34.5 birds.

 

This average is probably well below what I would expect, based on my results, (admittedly from memory), over the past few years, and I do believe that this is partly due to a general, gradual decline in the number of birds in my area over say, the last 5 years.

 

The birds cleared off when we had some really hard Winters with snow cover and they never returned in the same numbers.

 

Yes, there are good numbers around in late July and August, but I still maintain that, overall, their numbers have declined.

 

To be successful in shooting over Winter Rape you have to anticipate where the birds will head off to once they realise there is a camo-clad armed lunatic waiting on their chosen field looking to gun them down, i.e. what is their plan B..?

 

Once you've sussed out where they will head off to, you have to cover that field, and block it off, either with another shooter, banger ropes, flags etc, in the hope that they will return to your chosen field.

 

Of course, this doesn't always work, due to the size of the fields and the vast acreages involved, (my bags this year have nearly all come from a single block of 250 acres of rape).

 

I'm also a great believer in doing a thorough recce the day before to find out exactly where the birds are feeding, and I then work out precisely where I am going to site my hide, having regard to wind direction. I will then be there, ready and waiting before dawn, as, if you've done your homework, the birds could well pour in for the first hour or so.

 

I well remember i had a modest bag on Winter Rape in late Feb about 4 years ago, I shot the first bird precisely at 7.00am, and by 8.00am I had 50 on the clicker, and I packed up at 1.00pm with 107 on the clicker. Would I have had as many if I hadn't started until 9.00am, I doubt it..?

 

I have the greatest admiration for PC on this forum and his seemingly never ending ability to get decent bags every time out, but I do believe that his tactics are different to mine, possibly because:

• There are exceptional numbers of birds in his area - I well remember visiting an office in a business park outside Solihull, on several visits to this office there were vast numbers of birds flighting to and fro past the Boardroom window all day long.
• He can get out pretty much whenever he likes, if the weather's not right, he doesn't go, he sensibly stays at home or does whatever, if you don't have to work full time you will always be better able to shoot more birds.
• He has an extensive network of Farmer contacts over a vast area.
• The fields he shoots over generally appear (from his photos), to be smaller and more undulating than the vast, flat, tree-less, prairie like fields in my area, it's far easier for an expert to pick the most likely spot for the best bags.
• He favours doing a recce on the day, then walking the birds off, setting up and waiting for their return. I am amazed that, at this time of year, he can set up at 2.00pm and still get over 100 bird bags, then manage to lay them all out neatly for a photo without running out of daylight, I don't know of anybody in my area who could achieve a similar result.
• The Rape in his area is not as advanced as it is generally around here, it is a lot more sparse and consequently the deeks stick out that much better.

Any comments on the above, let's keep this one going..?

 

Cat.

[motty]

As you've posted Cat, i have had my best successes on winter rape (admittedly in March) when shooting from first light. Back in 2007 i had 138 pigeons in the bag and was packed up 11.30 one morning. I have shot a few reasonable bags by being set up later, after putting the birds off, my best i think has been 91. We all have different tactics and ways to achieve our results. I tend to do most of recon in the few days previous to a day's shooting, but i will obviously will react to what the birds are doing on the day.

[aga man]

I believe another key quality in PC's armoury is his shooting buddy DB [the unsung hero] .The bigger bags come when they are together, so there's definately teamwork in there results with no doubt a mass of knowledge between them.

 

For the record the pigeons here are always tricky during the 'winter rape' months here and as motty say's they just don't play ball.

I have only set up once on the rape this winter after many hours looking and watching and that was at the request of the farmer, i finished with a dozen pigeons.

We have plenty of birds here, it just seems the gas guns do as much good as us at the minute.

We often wonder if PC/DB could come and show us how its done

 

A very interesting thread so far

[Berettacocker]

I used to shoot the Hainault, chigwell areas which are just outside London and would shoot big bags regularly over rape and any other crop or stubble, through the year. I also shot other farms in essex where a 100 bird day was pretty rare, and an 86 was the most I ever shot on winter rape. I was convinced the pretty " easy " shooting I had near London was that the birds were " city woodies " , and not as clued up as their country cousins. So maybe PC s birds are Brummie city birds? Then again, dead birds don't pass on fear of rotaries to their friends! And he sure kills a lot of birds!

[bakerboy]

This is an interesting thread, with some good points being made by Guys who clearly know a bit about the game.

 

Winter Rape shooting can be very frustrating, at this time of the year and in my area it's now rare to get decent bags.

 

For the first time in many years I've decided to keep a shoot diary for 2015, and so far this year I've had 8 decoying sessions over Rape, best bag 92, worst bag 1.. , average per visit 34.5 birds.

 

This average is probably well below what I would expect, based on my results, (admittedly from memory), over the past few years, and I do believe that this is partly due to a general, gradual decline in the number of birds in my area over say, the last 5 years.

 

The birds cleared off when we had some really hard Winters with snow cover and they never returned in the same numbers.

 

Yes, there are good numbers around in late July and August, but I still maintain that, overall, their numbers have declined.

 

To be successful in shooting over Winter Rape you have to anticipate where the birds will head off to once they realise there is a camo-clad armed lunatic waiting on their chosen field looking to gun them down, i.e. what is their plan B..?

 

Once you've sussed out where they will head off to, you have to cover that field, and block it off, either with another shooter, banger ropes, flags etc, in the hope that they will return to your chosen field.

 

Of course, this doesn't always work, due to the size of the fields and the vast acreages involved, (my bags this year have nearly all come from a single block of 250 acres of rape).

 

I'm also a great believer in doing a thorough recce the day before to find out exactly where the birds are feeding, and I then work out precisely where I am going to site my hide, having regard to wind direction. I will then be there, ready and waiting before dawn, as, if you've done your homework, the birds could well pour in for the first hour or so.

 

I well remember i had a modest bag on Winter Rape in late Feb about 4 years ago, I shot the first bird precisely at 7.00am, and by 8.00am I had 50 on the clicker, and I packed up at 1.00pm with 107 on the clicker. Would I have had as many if I hadn't started until 9.00am, I doubt it..?

 

I have the greatest admiration for PC on this forum and his seemingly never ending ability to get decent bags every time out, but I do believe that his tactics are different to mine, possibly because:

• There are exceptional numbers of birds in his area - I well remember visiting an office in a business park outside Solihull, on several visits to this office there were vast numbers of birds flighting to and fro past the Boardroom window all day long.
• He can get out pretty much whenever he likes, if the weather's not right, he doesn't go, he sensibly stays at home or does whatever, if you don't have to work full time you will always be better able to shoot more birds.
• He has an extensive network of Farmer contacts over a vast area.
• The fields he shoots over generally appear (from his photos), to be smaller and more undulating than the vast, flat, tree-less, prairie like fields in my area, it's far easier for an expert to pick the most likely spot for the best bags.
• He favours doing a recce on the day, then walking the birds off, setting up and waiting for their return. I am amazed that, at this time of year, he can set up at 2.00pm and still get over 100 bird bags, then manage to lay them all out neatly for a photo without running out of daylight, I don't know of anybody in my area who could achieve a similar result.
• The Rape in his area is not as advanced as it is generally around here, it is a lot more sparse and consequently the deeks stick out that much better.

Any comments on the above, let's keep this one going..?

 

Cat.

This thread has been one of the best, if not the best I have seen on PW.

No one arguing, good, sensible and useful advice, sprinkled with an amount of good humour.

Long may it continue.

 

Quote from Cat,

Relating to Rape in Hertfordshire "it is a lot more sparse and consequently the deeks stick out that much better"

 

Cat; have you tried the Mega Decoys?

I purchased some recently and have yet to give them a run out.

 

They are about 3 times the size and probably visible from outer space .

I will try and get out soon and report back, has anyone else out there used the Mega decoys? your findings would be useful.

[Catamong]

Bakerboy,

 

My comments about the Rape being sparse were directed at PC's patch, not Herts where I shoot, around here it's still nearly knee high in parts, despite being being beaten down by the Frost..

 

You've obviously got to go for a patch where the birds have hammered it well, but even so that's generally around the margins, every bird that is shot and falls out in the field needs to be marked very carefully otherwise it's lost in the Rape.

 

I haven't tried the Mega Decoys, I use a mixture of FUDS, flocked shells, Flexicoys and Double H decoys, to which I add every bird that is shot up to a maximum of about 50, any more than that and the pattern gets too big and the birds start landing out at extreme range. I would be interested in your feedback on these new deeks..?

 

Cat.

[leadbreakfast]

It's not a matter of the number in the flock it's have they been feeding on the field . It's like JDog leaving a drink on the table you know he will return??.

Fancy coming over to derbyshire try and get the numbers down on some rape, it would be interesting to see what bag we could get.

[JBS]

I think some people are also forgetting the difference a good ratio makes to picking up a good bag, if you go out and shoot 4:1 and pick up 40 birds that could easily have been a 100 plus day for a better shot.

Generally we shoot two in a hide, if you pick off 3 or 4 every time a small gang comes in numbers build quickly but at 1or 2 for four shots it's a big difference

[Andylea]

As we all know pigeon can be a nightmare to decoy in winter,big flocks following each other ect ect,unfortunately a couple of years ago I lost my perm in a roost wood ( due to our wealthy pheasant shots paying big money),so I was left with a 500yard tree line with stubble either side,magnets out,shells,turbo flappers,bouncers the full works did a bit of research on decoy patterns and put it into practice,4hrs shooting 6 birds for 11 shots not a happy bunny,my dear old dad came wondering into the hide,'any good' no i said,his tip for the day was pull in all your fancy contraptions and put your decoys up in the tree,these birds are not feeding,there looking for a safe place to sit,following Saturday (14th feb ) I took his advice 53 birds in the bag for 69 shots.i think over the last ten years or so we've become obsessed with magnets ect, it pays to do your field craft and remember pigeon are not always on the feed!!!

[bakerboy]

Bakerboy,

 

My comments about the Rape being sparse were directed at PC's patch, not Herts where I shoot, around here it's still nearly knee high in parts, despite being being beaten down by the Frost..

 

You've obviously got to go for a patch where the birds have hammered it well, but even so that's generally around the margins, every bird that is shot and falls out in the field needs to be marked very carefully otherwise it's lost in the Rape.

 

I haven't tried the Mega Decoys, I use a mixture of FUDS, flocked shells, Flexicoys and Double H decoys, to which I add every bird that is shot up to a maximum of about 50, any more than that and the pattern gets too big and the birds start landing out at extreme range. I would be interested in your feedback on these new deeks..?

 

Cat.

Hi Cat

I will let you know how I get on.

[kitchrat]

This thread has been one of the best, if not the best I have seen on PW.

No one arguing, good, sensible and useful advice, sprinkled with an amount of good humour.

Long may it continue.

 

Quote from Cat,

Relating to Rape in Hertfordshire "it is a lot more sparse and consequently the deeks stick out that much better"

 

Cat; have you tried the Mega Decoys?

I purchased some recently and have yet to give them a run out.

 

They are about 3 times the size and probably visible from outer space .

I will try and get out soon and report back, has anyone else out there used the Mega decoys? your findings would be useful.

I've tried the megas and honestly can't see any difference in attractive powers but there again have had so few birds coming back to my fields that it isn't really a fair test.

A lot of the rape on my Essex farms has been badly attacked by Flea Beetle, together with pigeon attack these fields look almost bare but still seem to attract pigeons. Some, "un-beetled" fields are almost untouched.

There are far more birds on my patch than in the last two years but it's not helping my bags much. I can't flag off 100's of fields and 1000's of acres within an easy 5-minute flight.

[Blackpowder]

Well I have been roost shooting with our club for nigh on 40 years and the most noticable thing, other than there are now far fewer pigeons, is that birds are coming to roost much earlier. Once Guns would hang on until the last moment before leaving the woods, when the big flocks would swoop in with a rush of set wings. We would shoot as late as possible , visible muzzle flash with the paper biakels. Now its all over when daylight prevails and certainly none of those whooshing diving to roost birds.

 

Blackpowder

[kitchrat]

As we all know pigeon can be a nightmare to decoy in winter,big flocks following each other ect ect,unfortunately a couple of years ago I lost my perm in a roost wood ( due to our wealthy pheasant shots paying big money),so I was left with a 500yard tree line with stubble either side,magnets out,shells,turbo flappers,bouncers the full works did a bit of research on decoy patterns and put it into practice,4hrs shooting 6 birds for 11 shots not a happy bunny,my dear old dad came wondering into the hide,'any good' no i said,his tip for the day was pull in all your fancy contraptions and put your decoys up in the tree,these birds are not feeding,there looking for a safe place to sit,following Saturday (14th feb ) I took his advice 53 birds in the bag for 69 shots.i think over the last ten years or so we've become obsessed with magnets ect, it pays to do your field craft and remember pigeon are not always on the feed!!!

Good point but lofted decoys are a real pain to take down - literally! A shooter friend was trying to get his lofters down when the metal weight fell off and caught him in the face!! Several stiches required!!

Also, very hard to get them high enough to look good.