Legal Highs

[Duckandswing]

As a gun owner I wouldn't consider taking any illegal drug. Get caught and you'll lose your licence of that I have no doubt.

 

As a person I wouldn't take a legal high, they seem to be killing people.

 

Alcohol in moderation simply because I can't handle hangovers anymore, especially with two young children bouncing on my head.

[Vince Green]

I find it interesting that as a shooting community we are absolutely outraged when the public feel that guns should be banned for the one person that goes rogue and shoots members of the public: yet it seems a few on here have read the Daily Mail saying marajuana/cocaine/etc user goes burglarising so all users must be addicts hard criminals.

No, but all users are criminals................. Unlike with booze and fags

 

Its there such a thing as 'good' substance abuse?. Maybe because of my background, I have known a lot of people whose lives have been wrecked by booze and I am much more anti booze than drugs.

[LondonLuke]

No, but all users are criminals................. Unlike with booze and fags

 

Its there such a thing as 'good' substance abuse?. Maybe because of my background, I have known a lot of people whose lives have been wrecked by booze and I am much more anti booze than drugs.

 

Agreed they all perhaps indulge in something that the police would caution you for - but equally they are not all handbag snatching to feed a habit

 

Personally drugs are not for me but I do find it amazing how as a community who hates it when someone goes off on a shooting spree that we are so quick to typecast drug users.

[Twistedsanity]

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/joshi-herrmann-csj-legal-highs-ban-466

[srspower]

legal highs are the equivalent of moonshine during prohibition, potentially dangerous copies of the real thing. Same goes for Crystal meth in the US it came about because of the difficulty in accessing cocaine. If we tax, regulate and educate people then they should be free to take drugs if they like. At least then we can ensure such substances are as safe as they can be and we would stop people taking totally unknown and untested legal highs which are far worse. We'd also get rid of all the related organised crime. No brainer really.

[littlerob]

And in personal opinion all SGC and FAC holders should go under random drug testing . I hardley drink what so ever bee lucky if I drank 2 pints over 3 months, people on here slating alcohol aswell is bad yes it is if your in charge of a gun at the time of drink and a motor, but then there's no law saying you can't have a alcohol drink as as to a degree alchool is legal where on the other hand drugs are not

[grrclark]

To Evo and Harnser, when i asked the question about risk I was merely seeking to establish if you believed that someone who smoked cannabis was a higher risk than someone who drinks alcohol.

 

If it is simply the legal status of cannabis that would possibly alarm the feo then equally the same should hold true for speeding, I wasn't being flippant.

 

If someone on the forum lost their ticket for getting a tug for driving too quickly I believe that most would think that wrong, but if someone lost their ticket for smoking a joint I get the feeling that many who have contributed to this thread would celebrate.

 

There is also the repeating theme of people saying you don't have to drink or take drugs to enjoy yourself, I agree as it happens, but what about the person that has severe arthritis and finds that a little cannabis gives them a greater quality of life.

 

I have RA and take several pain killers everyday to avoid constant discomfort, those painkillers mean i risk a rotted stomach lining which means I have to take other drugs to counter act that and also risk getting liver poisoning.

 

I could take cannabis either through a vaping machine or in edible form that would mean i could stop those, absolutely no side effects, entirely natural, far cheaper and far more effective, but i would be a criminal, risk losing my ticket and all the attendant pitfalls that having a criminal record would bring.

 

My point in this rambling is that it is entirely inappropriate to simply bundle all things together in a single basket called drugs and apply either emotional or extreme arguments to demonise it all.

 

Exactly the same as some nutter going on a shooting spree shouldn't mean the rest of us are bundled together in the shooting is bad and evil basket.

 

The same holds true for most things.

 

We are far too quick to demonise what we don't understand and far too quick to leap to extreme assumption.

 

KW highlighted through painful personal experience that there is a massive issue with drugs in this country, I agree that there is, but the answer very much like the problem is complex and this blunt and simplistic approach that we choose to adopt is simply wrong.

 

As individuals we are not in a position to make some sort of executive change, but we absolutely can stop perpetuating ignorance. Change comes through enlightenment and understanding, but we need to challenge accepted wisdom otherwise we will stand still and go backwards.

Edited May 30, 2015 by grrclark

[welsh1]

As ever grrclark a thoughtful well written post.

[Twistedsanity]

Drugs are little more than a sticking plaster used by those people in power who are in charge of and responsible for shaping society to cover up the fact that they messed up and got it all so badly wrong, rather than admit that society as a man made construct favours only the elite few they choose to blame drugs for all and any of society's ills and problems.

If society worked as we would like it to and we as a society were all happy in our daily lives there would be no such thing as drug or alcohol abuse. The law of this country states clearly that to engender a crime is a crime in itself and empirical evidence proves that regulating or banning a substance causes an illegal black market To appear , so the act of regulating and banning any substance is in fact a criminal act in itself under our own legal system. If they are going to ban stuff then alcohol and tobacco should be top of the list as confirmed by the governments chief advisor on drug policy whom they sacked for voicing the truth about drugs and harm a few years back

[Lloyd90]

99.9% of those that like a drink, do so responsibly and with no ill effect to themselves or others, 99.9% of those that take DRUGS end up as smack heads with all the ills the title brings.

 

KW

What lovely stats you've got there I'm sure you haven't just made those up off the top of your head lol!

 

If you actually bothered to look into the things you spout off about you'd be surprised!

[keg]

Drugs are little more than a sticking plaster used by those people in power who are in charge of and responsible for shaping society to cover up the fact that they messed up and got it all so badly wrong, rather than admit that society as a man made construct favours only the elite few they choose to blame drugs for all and any of society's ills and problems.

If society worked as we would like it to and we as a society were all happy in our daily lives there would be no such thing as drug or alcohol abuse. The law of this country states clearly that to engender a crime is a crime in itself and empirical evidence proves that regulating or banning a substance causes an illegal black market To appear , so the act of regulating and banning any substance is in fact a criminal act in itself under our own legal system. If they are going to ban stuff then alcohol and tobacco should be top of the list as confirmed by the governments chief advisor on drug policy whom they sacked for voicing the truth about drugs and harm a few years back

Can't agree with your first point.

[kdubya]

What lovely stats you've got there I'm sure you haven't just made those up off the top of your head lol!

 

If you actually bothered to look into the things you spout off about you'd be surprised!

The numbers may be a tad sensational as was my intent, the message behind them is 100% right so keep your head on and keep believing that denial will make what is idiotic, self harming,ah hem and illegal OK by you, perhaps its you who wants to look deeper, or is your handle simply a reflection?

 

KW

Edited May 30, 2015 by kdubya

[Dougy]

So please forgive my ignorance here as I have had very little dealing with illegal drugs, or anyone connected, my own choice. All these stories about smoking weed,dope cannabis call it what you like, creating paranoia with the users is this fact or just a bit of a story.

 

I see it nearly every day of "Jeremy Kyle"

[Gordon R]

I have never taken drugs in my life, but have had business contact with more than a fair number. I have seen first hand how lives are wrecked, but still some say it doesn't do any harm.

 

Of those who think that they are harmless, how many would be happy if they found their child taking them? If there are any at all, I feel sorry for them, but even more sorry for their children.

[Danger-Mouse]

Danger-Mouse - carry on digging a bigger hole in your truly flawed logic.

 

 

 

I see "guarantee" has gone.

 

Come on then Gorden. I`ve taken the time to set out my opinion. Let`s hear your logic on why the costs to crime and health would not be outweighed by the taxable revenue created by legalising marijuana. Or are you one of those posters who just throws out a few words with nothing to back it up?

[Scully]

And in personal opinion all SGC and FAC holders should go under random drug testing . I hardley drink what so ever bee lucky if I drank 2 pints over 3 months, people on here slating alcohol aswell is bad yes it is if your in charge of a gun at the time of drink and a motor, but then there's no law saying you can't have a alcohol drink as as to a degree alchool is legal where on the other hand drugs are not

Why just SGC/FAC holders? What singles them out for special attention? Why not Police Officers? Teachers? Drivers? Anyone?

 

The numbers may be a tad sensational as was my intent, the message behind them is 100% right so keep your head on and keep believing that denial will make what is idiotic, self harming,ah hem and illegal OK by you, perhaps its you who wants to look deeper, or is your handle simply a reflection?

 

KW

 

The terms 'idiotic' and 'self harming' can most definitely and equally be applied to cigarettes and alcohol. In moderation then possibly not, but this equally applies to drugs; the only difference being one is illegal while others are not.

I find it amusing how some people consider it acceptable to tar all with the same brush while finding it unacceptable when the same techniques are used to denigrate ones political leanings.

As grrclark has so eloquently stated, when debate is stifled through stereotypical harassment (all UKIP are racists comes to mind) then we as a people are ultimately the losers.

[Gordon R]

Danger-Mouse - you made the bold claim that you could guarantee results. Now you can no longer guarantee. It just demonstrates the depth of your logic.

 

I will leave you to throw out a few careless words, without anything to back it up. You have cornered that market.

 

As for setting out my logic on the costs. No-one, but no-one knows the cost, so it is silly to make any claim.

 

Vince Green has made a very valid point that no-one seems keen to address. Criminals don't just retire. Perhaps you could put forward your view on which other harmless pastimes drug dealers could indulge in, if drugs were legalised.

[Scully]

I have never taken drugs in my life, but have had business contact with more than a fair number. I have seen first hand how lives are wrecked, but still some say it doesn't do any harm.

 

Of those who think that they are harmless, how many would be happy if they found their child taking them? If there are any at all, I feel sorry for them, but even more sorry for their children.

I have smoked a forgotten number of cigarettes and drunk a forgotten amount of alcohol and smoked a fair bit of weed. I don't smoke anything now and rarely drink alcohol.

My OH and me gave up smoking because even though I know it is perfectly legal I know it can eventually kill you ( I know literally dozens of people who have been killed by cigarette smoking ) and I can't advise my kids to not do it if I do it myself, as even I'm not that big a hypocrite.

I rarely drink not because I've seen what it does to people on many occasions, but because I can't handle the hangovers anymore.

Both are perfectly legal but I must confess I'm not particularly happy when my 18 year old daughter brings home a bottle of Vodka for a party she's going to, and neither would I be happy if she started smoking, but beyond that I'd be powerless as both are legal. She has never been encouraged to drink by either of us, but it's a legal high, so what can any parent do?

I personally think many drugs are extremely dangerous, but some have great benefit to others. It is this blanket ban of some under the claim 'all drugs are dangerous' that I find so annoying, when what people mean are 'all illegal drugs are dangerous'. It simply isn't as black and white as that and it doesn't alter the fact that alcohol and cigarettes can be two of the most dangerous in existence.

I have seen countless lives destroyed through alcohol and/or cigarettes.

Addiction to any drug, regardless of the legalities, is one of the most soul destroying, pitiful things a person can behold or do to themselves, but for some reason (revenue?) some are socially acceptable but others not. Why?

[The Mighty Prawn]

A classic PW thread here....

 

IM RIGHT IM RIGHT IM RIGHT, FINGERS IN EARS, CANT HEAR YOU BECAUSE IM SO RIGHT!

 

Pathetic, some of you have your heads so far in the sand I'm amazed you can still breath

 

According to half the close minded drones here one look at a spliff and it's the express train to crackhead prostitution and living by the bins.

[evo]

correct me if I,m wrong please,,

 

as I understood, getting our shooting certs we agreed to be HONEST and LAW ABIDING so in otherwords law abiding trustworthy people, so after reading some posts on this thread it is clear to me and others that some on here have NOT been totally honest with their firearms dept and FEO,s

 

so those who take drugs and by that I mean illegal drugs are NOT law abiding, so in my eyes there licence should be revoked,,

 

the other thing that has amazed me is how everyone who smokes ILLEGAL cannabis uses a medical condition as an excuse to use it,,but what about the people with the same conditions who LAWFULLY just get on with their lives ?

 

cannabis does not lead to being a heroin user, but as stated it can be a ladder to experimenting with drugs,

[keg]

 

Come on then Gorden. I`ve taken the time to set out my opinion. Let`s hear your logic on why the costs to crime and health would not be outweighed by the taxable revenue created by legalising marijuana. Or are you one of those posters who just throws out a few words with nothing to back it up?

Because the users that steal and mug to feed their habit would still do the same if it was legal or not. The same users that go on to stronger stuff will still do the same.

 

I don't know what the answer is myself.

[grrclark]

I have smoked a forgotten number of cigarettes and drunk a forgotten amount of alcohol and smoked a fair bit of weed. I don't smoke anything now and rarely drink alcohol.

My OH and me gave up smoking because even though I know it is perfectly legal I know it can eventually kill you ( I know literally dozens of people who have been killed by cigarette smoking ) and I can't advise my kids to not do it if I do it myself, as even I'm not that big a hypocrite.

I rarely drink not because I've seen what it does to people on many occasions, but because I can't handle the hangovers anymore.

Both are perfectly legal but I must confess I'm not particularly happy when my 18 year old daughter brings home a bottle of Vodka for a party she's going to, and neither would I be happy if she started smoking, but beyond that I'd be powerless as both are legal. She has never been encouraged to drink by either of us, but it's a legal high, so what can any parent do?

I personally think many drugs are extremely dangerous, but some have great benefit to others. It is this blanket ban of some under the claim 'all drugs are dangerous' that I find so annoying, when what people mean are 'all illegal drugs are dangerous'. It simply isn't as black and white as that and it doesn't alter the fact that alcohol and cigarettes can be two of the most dangerous in existence.

I have seen countless lives destroyed through alcohol and/or cigarettes.

Addiction to any drug, regardless of the legalities, is one of the most soul destroying, pitiful things a person can behold or do to themselves, but for some reason (revenue?) some are socially acceptable but others not. Why?

Good post.

[Gordon R]

The Mighty Prawn - if someone doesn't have any time for drugs, just why does that make them a closed minded drone? Now that, I do find pathetic.

 

PS - no need to shout. You seem limited enough in lower case.

 

Further PS - I omitted to say - good post, Scully.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Gordon R

[Danger-Mouse]

Danger-Mouse - you made the bold claim that you could guarantee results. Now you can no longer guarantee. It just demonstrates the depth of your logic.

 

I will leave you to throw out a few careless words, without anything to back it up. You have cornered that market.

 

As for setting out my logic on the costs. No-one, but no-one knows the cost, so it is silly to make any claim.

 

Vince Green has made a very valid point that no-one seems keen to address. Criminals don't just retire. Perhaps you could put forward your view on which other harmless pastimes drug dealers could indulge in, if drugs were legalised.

 

That`s what I thought. You can`t actually make any reasoned argumnent, all you can do is snipe and try and make yourself look clever.

 

Whilst I didn`t agree with many of KW`s points at least he set out his argument and made it a debate.

 

You, nothing but hot air.

[Danger-Mouse]

Because the users that steal and mug to feed their habit would still do the same if it was legal or not.

 

Again this notion that marijuana users are out there breaking into houses and mugging old ladies. They`re not. There might be the very odd case but in general those that commit crimes to feed their habits are on Class A drugs.