scotslad Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Not too sure about that breast mn, all those arrows look perfectly capable of killing a large animal and that has passig throu bone. Ur talking about something twice as heavy s a 308 bullet and with a far bigger surface area Don't get many semi auto rifles atleast not in ur large game hunting calibres, bet some of the old great game hunters ould be turning in there graves the thought of using semi auto's If he has shoot it too far back a 308 bullt esp a large game bullet (probablysome interlock/bonded to give more penetation) would pass straight throu causing very little daage if it never hit a bone I'm nt into bow hutig and would have no desire to do it,but when look at the forces they can generate at closer ranges very comparable to most hunting calibres if not higher. The fact is he pulled the shoot which can happen with ny rfle too As everyone is so opposed to trophy hunting and posing for pictures i take it wil not see as many picuters of dead fxes or bags of pigeons laidout on here then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 As everyone is so opposed to trophy hunting and posing for pictures i take it wil not see as many picuters of dead fxes or bags of pigeons laidout on here then? I have to agree these threads do bring out some double standards, you expect that from 'outraged on fb' but not really on shooting forums Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STOTTO Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 I have to agree these threads do bring out some double standards, you expect that from 'outraged on fb' but not really on shooting forums When a dog acts outside of the remit of the pack he gets chewed on by the rest. ‘Law of the Jungle’ http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_lawofjungle.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB525 Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Here's my stance: I am currently a clay shooter. I am looking into branching out into pot hunting/some game and stalking in the future. I have had a failed attempt at culling Canada geese (I wasn't happy with the shot that presented itself so didn't fire). If/when I shoot a deer (or any other animal), I won't be posing for a picture. I have no problem with killing (for a reason, venison is tasty) however, I personally think that you should be as respectful as possible to the animal that you kill. Laying out animals in a row or some other pose isn't respectful in my humble opinion. Ironically, I wouldn't have a problem with posting a picture of a tasty venison steak or pigeon breast so I am also a hypocrite. I personally don't agree with trophy killing, but I do understand that things such as "canned hunting" can do more good than harm by ploughing money into conservation. With regard to this situation. I think using a bow (be it compound or crossbow) is inexcusable. Broadhead arrows can be effective, but reloading times are not in your favour compared to a large caliber bolt action rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 As everyone is so opposed to trophy hunting and posing for pictures i take it wil not see as many picuters of dead fxes or bags of pigeons laidout on here then? I think there is a difference, if you go out to shoot pests or hunt for food and take a photo of the result that is different from setting out purely to kill an animal just for the sake of having a pic, or head, 'the trophy' to hang on your wall. It is the intention behind it that differs, if someone sets out to shoot 100 pigeons purely so they can post a pic I would disagree with the motivation of that, likewise with foxes or rabbits or anything else. I freely admit I have never really gotten the 'posing with your bag' thing, the pic of dead foxes or rabbits with the rifle straddled across I find silly to be candid, but each to their own and there are plenty on here who enjoy seeing the results. I have no doubt that many who enjoy those kind of pics will find my thoughts about it silly too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Not too sure about that breast mn, all those arrows look perfectly capable of killing a large animal and that has passig throu bone. Ur talking about something twice as heavy s a 308 bullet and with a far bigger surface area Don't get many semi auto rifles atleast not in ur large game hunting calibres, bet some of the old great game hunters ould be turning in there graves the thought of using semi auto's If he has shoot it too far back a 308 bullt esp a large game bullet (probablysome interlock/bonded to give more penetation) would pass straight throu causing very little daage if it never hit a bone I'm nt into bow hutig and would have no desire to do it,but when look at the forces they can generate at closer ranges very comparable to most hunting calibres if not higher. The fact is he pulled the shoot which can happen with ny rfle too As everyone is so opposed to trophy hunting and posing for pictures i take it wil not see as many picuters of dead fxes or bags of pigeons laidout on here then? Decent hunting ammo does not require a bone strike to dump its energy/expand. Even a moderate hunting calibre like 308 has muzzle energy in excess of 2500ft/lbs. From the information i've been able to gather a hunting arrows energy is usually less than 100ft/lbs! Obvious the manner in which they deliver their damage is different however even a bullet which fails to expand will dump more energy and transfer more hydraulic shock than the best arrow. Arrows seem to rely almost entirely on shot placement, in that they need to actually cut a major blood vessel to be lethal. The hydraulic shock wave around a bullet will turn anything it comes into contact, or just pass nearby into jelly. Theres a good reason why firearms replaced bows on the battlefield. If someone, be they hunter or not allows 'tradition' to take precedence over efficiency when it comes to ensuring as quick and painless death as possible then they're not a 'reasonsible person' (heavily toned down for fear of moderation ) as far as i'm concerned. Edited July 30, 2015 by Breastman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrM Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) 1, so without out spelling it out there is a massive amount of hypocrsy going on and ur as basd as the anti's putting different feelings towards different animals Sorry you seem to have missed my point! It would be hypocrisy if I said I didn't approve of hunting lions and then went ahead and it did it. Just to re-iterate my point is that I am suggesting everyone has a different stance on what they find acceptable and what is not. Some think Lion hunting is fine, others don't like hurting mice. No one is right or wrong. Edited July 30, 2015 by MrM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djrwood Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Personally i think its each to his own. If shooting large game is his cup of tea, push on. I wonder how many of you on here have seen these "majestic" "endangered" species locked up in zoo's around the world? The animals in these zoo's are plucked out of their normal environment, flown to wherever and then locked up in relatively small enclosures when compared to their natural grounds. Why is this acceptable but shooting one of them not? I would absolutly love to go trophy stag hunting in scotland, and one day when my pockets are deep enough and the opportunity arises i will be doing it. Whats the difference in me shooting a stag roaming the hills in scotland, to this bloke who went in to another country and shot a local animal? Nothing other than the status simple people regard lions to have after watching Disney's Lion King a few too many times. How many beautiful bears are shot in America daily? Who cares? Not many obviously otherwise there would be a continous thread going on this forum about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 I, for one, am not into trophy hunting. I can see the appeal of carefully stalking a magnificent animal in rugged terrain, whether it be Scotland or Africa but I'd be satisfied in watching them rather than shooting them. At least with deer the meat is normally eaten. I'm finding it difficult to justify the bow usage in this case although I can appreciate the conservation money (although how much actually goes towards conservation in a notoriously corrupt country is anyone's guess) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Personally i think its each to his own. If shooting large game is his cup of tea, push on. I wonder how many of you on here have seen these "majestic" "endangered" species locked up in zoo's around the world? The animals in these zoo's are plucked out of their normal environment, flown to wherever and then locked up in relatively small enclosures when compared to their natural grounds. Why is this acceptable but shooting one of them not? I would absolutly love to go trophy stag hunting in scotland, and one day when my pockets are deep enough and the opportunity arises i will be doing it. Whats the difference in me shooting a stag roaming the hills in scotland, to this bloke who went in to another country and shot a local animal? Nothing other than the status simple people regard lions to have after watching Disney's Lion King a few too many times. How many beautiful bears are shot in America daily? Who cares? Not many obviously otherwise there would be a continous thread going on this forum about it I think the difference in this case is that the animal was poached; it was hunted ( to use the term loosely) illegally. I have nothing whatsoever against those who do this legally; ( although I think the choice of weapon was dire) it is big business attracting big money and can bring financial gain to local people in rural localities, akin to driven bird shooting in this country. However, I think the outcry on social media would be just as severe if the hunt had been legally carried out because there are people who just don't agree with this sort of thing. The trophy hunting of big game goes on on a weekly basis in parts of Africa, but rarely make the news. This one has done so merely because the lion was a celebrity and was killed illegally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djrwood Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 I think the difference in this case is that the animal was poached; it was hunted ( to use the term loosely) illegally. I have nothing whatsoever against those who do this legally; ( although I think the choice of weapon was dire) it is big business attracting big money and can bring financial gain to local people in rural localities, akin to driven bird shooting in this country. However, I think the outcry on social media would be just as severe if the hunt had been legally carried out because there are people who just don't agree with this sort of thing. The trophy hunting of big game goes on on a weekly basis in parts of Africa, but rarely make the news. This one has done so merely because the lion was a celebrity and was killed illegally. Agreed. My comments are more generally directed at the hypocrits on here and social media who are moaning about a lion being hunted rather than the legalities of this specific case. It makes my blood boil. Seem to always have a photo of a woman popping up on my feed that killed a monkey with a bow. People are calling for her blood, yet these same people pay good money to go and see these beloved monkeys locked up in cages at a zoo, that exists purely for their entertainment. Ridiculous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Animals should never be anthropomorphised by giving them names. This dentist is clearly an idiot. Having been in trouble before for shooting a bear when he shouldn't have he ought to have known better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 I honestly dinae see wot all the fuss is about, hundreds if not thousands of lions will be illegally poached every year plus all the genuinely rare/endangered animals that are illegally poached for 'herbal medicine' where is all the outcry for that!! It is far more serious problem for the species concerned esp where some are really endangered. The landowner and PH have been suspeneded from the safari club and are being investigated for poaching, it should be fairly easy to prove if they had the releant paper work CITES permission to shoot it, but there could also be some back handers/corruption or lack off brown envelopes or just the fact it has attracted so much attention that there being flung to the lions. Both of them have been very stupid to think they could get away with it. Possibly it would be hard to blame the hunter, he may well not have known, if u were going on a dodgy hunt or with cowboys would u really send them 30 odd K, no chance I see PET a's quote in the paper today stated the hunter should be 'hung' how's that for hypocrocy cannae be cruel to animals but perfectly acceptable to hang someone. Aye Mr m but when u are perfectly happy with a kill ratio of 3:1 as an average often it will be worse it is very hard to take moral high gound unless u truely believe every missed bird is a clean miss, i seriously doubt that. Ditchman depending on the bullet choice but some bullets DO need to hit bone/muscle to expand esp bullets used for larger game (not often used in uk as game not large/tough enough) otherwise u would not get the penetration, even with 'normal' soft point bullets u occasionally get bullets with very little expansion, esp if too far back There is no positives out of this mess but also no need for the mass hysteria/trial by internet, esp considering some of the other stuff that goes on in Zim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Personally i think its each to his own. If shooting large game is his cup of tea, push on. I wonder how many of you on here have seen these "majestic" "endangered" They only tend to become 'majestic' or 'magnificent' in the press once they are shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 I honestly dinae see wot all the fuss is about, hundreds if not thousands of lions will be illegally poached every year plus all the genuinely rare/endangered animals that are illegally poached for 'herbal medicine' where is all the outcry for that!! It is far more serious problem for the species concerned esp where some are really endangered. The landowner and PH have been suspeneded from the safari club and are being investigated for poaching, it should be fairly easy to prove if they had the releant paper work CITES permission to shoot it, but there could also be some back handers/corruption or lack off brown envelopes or just the fact it has attracted so much attention that there being flung to the lions. Both of them have been very stupid to think they could get away with it. Possibly it would be hard to blame the hunter, he may well not have known, if u were going on a dodgy hunt or with cowboys would u really send them 30 odd K, no chance I see PET a's quote in the paper today stated the hunter should be 'hung' how's that for hypocrocy cannae be cruel to animals but perfectly acceptable to hang someone. Aye Mr m but when u are perfectly happy with a kill ratio of 3:1 as an average often it will be worse it is very hard to take moral high gound unless u truely believe every missed bird is a clean miss, i seriously doubt that. Ditchman depending on the bullet choice but some bullets DO need to hit bone/muscle to expand esp bullets used for larger game (not often used in uk as game not large/tough enough) otherwise u would not get the penetration, even with 'normal' soft point bullets u occasionally get bullets with very little expansion, esp if too far back There is no positives out of this mess but also no need for the mass hysteria/trial by internet, esp considering some of the other stuff that goes on in Zim Yep, would have to agree with much of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 +1 on that Scully. This is the same PETA who want a memorial to some chickens that were killed in a road accident when on a lorry!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winnie&bezza Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 In the paper he's posing next to a rhino with his bow! Now surely a bow couldn't bring down a rhino??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Animals should never be anthropomorphised by giving them names. This dentist is clearly an idiot. Having been in trouble before for shooting a bear when he shouldn't have he ought to have known better. I agree with the sentiment, but does that include dogs? Edited July 30, 2015 by Blunderbuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Here's my stance: I am currently a clay shooter. I am looking into branching out into pot hunting/some game and stalking in the future. I have had a failed attempt at culling Canada geese (I wasn't happy with the shot that presented itself so didn't fire). If/when I shoot a deer (or any other animal), I won't be posing for a picture. I have no problem with killing (for a reason, venison is tasty) however, I personally think that you should be as respectful as possible to the animal that you kill. Laying out animals in a row or some other pose isn't respectful in my humble opinion. Ironically, I wouldn't have a problem with posting a picture of a tasty venison steak or pigeon breast so I am also a hypocrite. I personally don't agree with trophy killing, but I do understand that things such as "canned hunting" can do more good than harm by ploughing money into conservation. With regard to this situation. I think using a bow (be it compound or crossbow) is inexcusable. Broadhead arrows can be effective, but reloading times are not in your favour compared to a large caliber bolt action rifle. I think taking the time to lay out your bag of pigeon in a neat rows for a picture is perfectly respectful , far more so than shooting them where they cannot be picked. Either way respectful or not I guess they will not care to much , being dead . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 +1 on that Scully. This is the same PETA who want a memorial to some chickens that were killed in a road accident when on a lorry!! I'm not surprised they were killed, it's a well known fact chickens can't drive lorries. I'll bet they weren't insured either...totally reckless. I think PETA are just aliens in human form; I certainly don't think they're from planet earth. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 in expect he will be getting whats coming to him time and time again for a very long time I have to agree these threads do bring out some double standards, you expect that from 'outraged on fb' but not really on shooting forums not everyone who shoots hunts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovercoupe Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Well I think the guy has massive kahoonies for the simple fact he took a bow and arrow to kill a lion, if it took 40 hours to finish the lion then surly it could have turned and eaten the whole lot of them? If I was to shoot a lion I would need a 800mm lens and x2 converter and a decent crop afterwords! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 I must say with all that wrong in this world I find it hard to understand how much hot air has been expended on this poor old lion. In saying this it is quite clears from the dozen versions of the truth I've heard/read nobody seems to actually know exactly what went on. Let's be grown up and move onto something important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpkiller Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 If the money wasnt rolling in from people paying to hunt game then they wouldnt be helping the species survive at all. Just like if people didnt own land in this country it would probably be paved over for houses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 Interesting article on how killing lions protects lions (and other animals) in Tanzania: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/18/opinion/saving-lions-by-killing-them.html?_r=3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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