Vince Green Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Its probably been done before but as muntjac are not a native species are they classed as vermin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynny Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Depends on who you ask lol, there is no closed season on muntjac , coz they breed all year round and as soon as they give birth they are ready to mate again!!! A doe could be pregnant most of the time if she's healthy I see them as deer and should be treated with respect as all quarry should, Atb Flynny Edited December 30, 2015 by flynny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Take the big fat female's and the ones with horns on, you should be okay Taking other female's could leave youngsters orphaned. I know it didn't answer the question but, it is important if you shoot ethically. Edited December 30, 2015 by Dougy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Its probably been done before but as muntjac are not a native species are they classed as vermin? No, must be treated under the conditions of the deer act. Though some would in advisedly term them as vermin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Take the big fat female's and the ones with horns on, you should be okay Taking other female's could leave youngsters orphaned. You must have better eyesight and reflexes than me....lol True can be pregnant at 7 months old and then regularly after, the general welfare thought is that if a buck is with a doe, shoot the buck as there will probably be a newborn follower somewhere near which would be orphaned? BUT, some just shoot on sight regardless? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynny Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Take the big fat female's and the ones with horns on, you should be okay Taking other female's could leave youngsters orphaned. I know it didn't answer the question but, it is important if you shoot ethically. You must have better eyesight and reflexes than me....lolTrue can be pregnant at 7 months old and then regularly after, the general welfare thought is that if a buck is with a doe, shoot the buck as there will probably be a newborn follower somewhere near which would be orphaned? BUT, some just shoot on sight regardless? Correct , Atb Flynny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 I was thinking more in terms of the conditions on your FAC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulboy1957 Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 They conditioned and named (together with CWD for a .222)on my certificate,so I would say they are not covered by the "vermin" part. Best ask BASC or feo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Deer needed on your ticket if you intend to stay legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Courtesy stalking directory; 8 Oct 2003 : Column WA60VerminLord Selsdon asked Her Majesty's Government:Which mammals and other animals are classified as "vermin".[HL4559]Lord Whitty: There is no definition of the term "vermin" in UK law. In such a situation the Oxford Dictionary definition should be applied.The Oxford Dictionary defines "vermin" as "Animals of a noxious or objectionable kind. Originally applied to reptiles, stealthy, or slinky animals, and various wild beasts; now, excluding in US and Australia, almost entirely restricted to those animals or birds which prey upon preserved game . . ." So they cant be vermin and are defo deer Edited December 31, 2015 by oowee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpaulc Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 They are named specifically under the caliber recommendations for 'deer' (the allowed to use forms of .22 centrefire for CWD asnd muntjac bit) so I'd saw definitely deer to keep it legal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craftycarper Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Doesn't come in as all legal quarry on .222 or above then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Muntjacs are deer and require a deer condition that include AOLQ as its legal to shoot muntjac with the 222. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) Doesn't come in as all legal quarry on .222 or above then ? All legal quarry is all legal quarry. If you have that condition on your ticket for 22 cf you can shoot small deer in England and Wales ie., CWD and Muntjac. Also Roe in Scotland. Edited December 31, 2015 by Fisheruk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 They are definitely deer - please don't listen to <some> of the morons on other shooting forums... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontastic Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) When out shooting pigeons/corvids we are are often advised to read the general licence and to make sure we understand it, thus keeping us on the right side of the law. When I did my dsc1 all laws and rules regarding deer were covered, I'm not suggesting everyone goes and does a dsc1 but I am suggesting anyone interested in shooting deer takes a look at the section in the dsc1 manual regarding law as it explains everything you need to know and it only takes about 30 minutes to go through. If anyone local to me wants to read it I am happy to lend them mine for a day or two. The bds is also a good place to go for information on stalking. Edited December 31, 2015 by toontastic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 All legal quarry is all legal quarry. If you have that condition on your ticket for 22 cf you can shoot small deer in England and Wales ie., CWD and Muntjac. Also Roe in Scotland. Not so I'm afraid, they are deer and your ticket must be conditioned for them as WW says. The Best Practice Guides from the Deer Initiative are well worth a trawl? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Not so I'm afraid, they are deer and your ticket must be conditioned for them as WW says. The Best Practice Guides from the Deer Initiative are well worth a trawl? So are you suggesting that deer are not legal quarry. It would be a very stupid chief constable who decided to prosecute, in a court of law, someone who shot a deer (within the terms of the deer act) who's fac he had conditioned for fox and any other legal quarry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5x55SE Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 So are you suggesting that deer are not legal quarry. It would be a very stupid chief constable who decided to prosecute, in a court of law, someone who shot a deer (within the terms of the deer act) who's fac he had conditioned for fox and any other legal quarry. WHY !!!!! Any calibre .240 and above has Deer etc below. 240 in England will have CWD and/or Muntjac because if a .22 CF just had Deer AOLQ it would mean you could shoot ALL six species with a .22 CF . My 6.5x55 has Deer AOLQ my .223 has CWD and Muntjac AOLQ my .17HMR Vermin and AOLQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) That is the problem when AOLQ is stated on your ticket and you therefore assume that you can shoot anything you like, caliber specific of course. In many ways it works but in some it confuses. It would certainly be better for shooters to stay within the law, and not be ignorant of it. If in doubt check with those that know,not with those that assume. I am not 100% sure in your position, but I know I am OK because I have Deer condition on my ticket. Edited December 31, 2015 by Dougy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 if a .22 CF just had Deer AOLQ it would mean you could shoot ALL six species with a .22 CF . I may be wrong as I just shoot Roe, but wouldn't it be illegal to shoot for example a Red deer with a .22cf, and therefore in breach of the AOLQ condition? Or similarly if shooting a Roe in England with a .223 conditioned as AOLQ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 The problem often comes with the Forces for some Vermin AOLQ on a 22lr mean you can't shoot foxes. The force believes 22lr is unsuitable for fox many disagree that in the right situation a 22lr is ideal for foxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikee Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Muntjac certainly aren't vermin, they are a fantastic sporting assett, if they had set breeding times like the other deer they would have a closed season its just that they breed year round so a closed season is pointless, if you are worried about shooting does incase you leave orphaned calves and your landowner isn't anal about having them all cleared up, just shoot the bucks, you'll have a steady stream of meat for the freezer, the bucks are always on the move looking for new does.so new ones will be moving in after the does you didnt shoot. As for caliber .22cf is legal but I personally prefer the .308 the big heavy bullet has generally exited before its fully expanded and makes far less mess that .22-250 or .243 just my thought Mikee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 WHY !!!!! Any calibre .240 and above has Deer etc below. 240 in England will have CWD and/or Muntjac because if a .22 CF just had Deer AOLQ it would mean you could shoot ALL six species with a .22 CF . My 6.5x55 has Deer AOLQ my .223 has CWD and Muntjac AOLQ my .17HMR Vermin and AOLQ Remember that you only get the conditions you request for the quarry species you detail on your application. As an example, my pal does not shoot deer, therefore, his 243 which he has for fox is not conditioned specifically for deer, his conditions are fox and AOLQ. As a further example, my condition reads the firearms and ammunition may be used for shooting deer/fox/vermin and AOLQ. My firearms range from .17hmr upwards. Which in a sence is the same conditioning as yours but a more simplyfied version. Having AOLQ does not exempt one from any laws, such as the deer act, prohibiting certain calibers on specific species. AOLQ (any other lawful quarry) is exactly what it states on the tin, lawful. Shooting a large deer with a .22c/f is not lawful, therefore would not be covered by the AOLQ condition any more than my HMR would be should I shoot a small, medium or large deer with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5x55SE Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 I may be wrong as I just shoot Roe, but wouldn't it be illegal to shoot for example a Red deer with a .22cf, and therefore in breach of the AOLQ condition? Or similarly if shooting a Roe in England with a .223 conditioned as AOLQ? Correct that was my point that I did not put across correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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