loriusgarrulus Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 I have no problem with someone having a different viewpoint from mine. What I don't like is folks insulting someone else personally because they don't agree with them. Instead they could promote their own point of view in a civilised way and say why they think the others views are wrong.. Its a thankless task for the Mods to have to go through a big thread and decide which bits to delete and which to leave locking it is often the only time viable option for them which is a shame. It still leaves the thread up for folks to see what went wrong and hopefully learn from it. Sadly some use the learning to repeat the same things again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon69 Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 I have no problem with someone having a different viewpoint from mine. What I don't like is folks insulting someone else personally because they don't agree with them. Instead they could promote their own point of view in a civilised way and say why they think the others views are wrong.. Its a thankless task for the Mods to have to go through a big thread and decide which bits to delete and which to leave locking it is often the only time viable option for them which is a shame. It still leaves the thread up for folks to see what went wrong and hopefully learn from it. Sadly some use the learning to repeat the same things again. This ^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 And why would they 'argue back'? Seriously? There is no 'arguing' about on a discussion forum, you can have a discussion with differing viewpoints without having personal attacks on any of the participants. I own an internet forum, and if I see someone having a 'go' at someone else, I just delete him/her immediately. No discussion. I treat a discussion forum as it was my lounge; if someone is rude, he gets the boot in my lounge. You can have a nice, animated discussion on any topic by being constructive, polite, respectful while still being funny and a bit of a pain in the side if necessary. It requires more time and intelligence than trolling tho. I agree, in fact I'd say I like pretty much everything you've trolled us with cept maybe the odd watch face. I don't get people being accused of trollism because they deviate from a core subject, nor do I fall for it when someone uses the term merely because the so called troller is rubbing them up the wrong way. Overt rudeness or aggression should just result in a quiet deletion, no argument, perhaps just a quick pm letting the offender know how long he's suspended for ( I profoundly disagree with banning people forever unless absolutely necessary). As others have said already some subjects just attract the wrong atmosphere, homosexuality, female status, race, immigration, etc, and although I refuse to accept that all vehement opposition to immigration is racist, there is no question a lot of racism hides behind nationalism and bigotry hides behind pure ignorance and denial of facts. The world we live in evolves constantly, a few years ago going on AirgunBBS forum would have required a very sturdy constitution if you wozn't AngloSaxon , their MOD's did little, some joined in, one to my eternal pleasure has to be said, was himself ejected by the owner eventually - good riddance in case he's reading this. Today the same forum is a rather different place, at least partly because the lies of the Iraq war and subsequent exposures of the allies war crimes have proved the ME wasn't perhaps deserving of the magnitude of hate and vitriol it suffered at the time. I have not yet been cautioned or banned here but wherever I have I personally consider it a badge of honour, I got deleted off a Beretta owners page on FB after a single post was it justified ? Yes if stating the bl e e ding truth is a crime. MOD's are invariably good honest people doing a thankless time consuming job without pay but some use it to score personal points which is a little cowardly. I have personally found PigeonWatch a comfortable place to be given my non Anglowhatchmacallit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobba Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 In the context of contributing to debates, meetings etc I have, over time, received various pieces of advice, two of which I try to keep in mind. Long before the Internet, forums, trolls etc my grand daddy's advice was "if you can't think of anything nice to say then don't say anything at all". At work I was once advised " If you have to resort to personal comments / insults in order to try to win the arguement then your limitations are clear to all" That said, I am only human and I have to admit to occasional lapses ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjh Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 playing the troll card for certain PW members is just an admission they have lost the debate happens regularly, as stated earlier I have refrained from taking part recently in these discussions as it only acts to irritate the usual suspects, I enjoy the forum so just read the threads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B25Modelman Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 There were one or two PW members who left unnecessary comments on the RIP GM Topic and they were not trolls. It was good to see it locked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon69 Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 There were one or two PW members who left unnecessary comments on the RIP GM Topic and they were not trolls. It was good to see it locked. It may have been "good" to lock that thread, to stop any more unnecessary comments, but its a shame it had to be locked, because of them, in the first place. (if that makes sense?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 One of these threads come round every few months or so and your concerns are nothing new. Like all places on the net this place has its fair share of trolls,tards,narrow minded and worst of all imo hypocrites but its not worth getting hot enough about as it really isnt real life. Its actually pretty funny to see threads come round where folks slate the likes of big bad FB for some comments when we have seen some shockers on here but in reality this place is decent enough if you take it for what it is,although you have to disregard some opinions when it comes to the likes of showing dead pic of animals,on a shooting forum too. As long as all are treated fairly by the mods and all members get the same shake of the stick then you cant ask for much more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 One of these threads come round every few months or so and your concerns are nothing new. Like all places on the net this place has its fair share of trolls,tards,narrow minded and worst of all imo hypocrites but its not worth getting hot enough about as it really isnt real life. Its actually pretty funny to see threads come round where folks slate the likes of big bad FB for some comments when we have seen some shockers on here but in reality this place is decent enough if you take it for what it is,although you have to disregard some opinions when it comes to the likes of showing dead pic of animals,on a shooting forum too. As long as all are treated fairly by the mods and all members get the same shake of the stick then you cant ask for much more. +1 Forums are like going to the pub. If you listen to and weigh in on every single conversation at every single table in the joint you're going to come up against some idiots (and they're probably thinking why an idiot has just turned up in their conversation). There's not much point in shouting, screaming and throwing tables around, just go somewhere else and let the bar staff sort it out how they want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFC Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 My opinion is that it is ok to have differing views but the moment that a personal insult is used then the argument is lost. I'm a member on other forums which I contribute to but virtually all of my interaction on those is to do with the focus of the forum. I'll reiterate that I think that this forum has its priorities wrong. The 'off topic' section is one of the first sections whilst the 'on topic' threads are all lower down the page. I don't know if it's possible to shuffle the order but I would like to see the 'off topic' section have a much lower priority, even below 'Country Sports'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 My opinion is that it is ok to have differing views but the moment that a personal insult is used then the argument is lost. I'm a member on other forums which I contribute to but virtually all of my interaction on those is to do with the focus of the forum. I'll reiterate that I think that this forum has its priorities wrong. The 'off topic' section is one of the first sections whilst the 'on topic' threads are all lower down the page. I don't know if it's possible to shuffle the order but I would like to see the 'off topic' section have a much lower priority, even below 'Country Sports'. Im on a few more and can say if you took the the first ten lounge threads from 2 of them,on here every one would be locked and you would hardly have a member left unbanned so everyone knows what they are getting so rarely whinge and that can produce some great long term threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 I feel that many threads on here are prematurely locked. Some people are far too sensitive. Shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 One of these threads come round every few months or so and your concerns are nothing new. Like all places on the net this place has its fair share of trolls,tards,narrow minded and worst of all imo hypocrites but its not worth getting hot enough about as it really isnt real life. Its actually pretty funny to see threads come round where folks slate the likes of big bad FB for some comments when we have seen some shockers on here but in reality this place is decent enough if you take it for what it is,although you have to disregard some opinions when it comes to the likes of showing dead pic of animals,on a shooting forum too. As long as all are treated fairly by the mods and all members get the same shake of the stick then you cant ask for much more. May I first say thank you for brightening up my day significantly already by teaching me a new word which I shall henceforth use with gay abandon. Unfortunately though I have to disagree in part, this and other forums ARE very much real life, more so than meeting people face to face, this is where peoples true selves come through, people will always say what they feel under the cover of anonymity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 playing the troll card for certain PW members is just an admission they have lost the debate happens regularly, as stated earlier I have refrained from taking part recently in these discussions as it only acts to irritate the usual suspects, I enjoy the forum so just read the threads just recently someone stopped posting because they were picked on for coming across as a know-it-all, yet some of his post made me smile and I took it with a pinch of salt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 The world is a different place these days,and so public forums need to be different too. There are plenty of people around (Yes on here too) who engage keyboard (or mouth ) without engaging brain and a bit of tact first. The problem is, you cant just have offensive material spouted without a little policing,it has potential legal ramifications. Closed forums are another matter,yet still a possible legal minefield. To me the trolling starts with ,what is usually a sensible political discussion. And its usually the people who rarely post about anything else, who step in with an argument (in my mind ) specifically designed to cause discourse,or, to get someone to counter it with an offensive comment,so allowing them to claim the moral 'victory' Its rare to see a 'gun ' thread get locked,and topical non political threads too,unless a really crass remark about homophobia ect. Dont forget ,antis,sabs and other enemies of the sports we love,who have free access to PW ,will pick and choose what comments work best for them and use them accordingly- against YOU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Agree with most of the comments and in all the time I've been on here I've only been cross once and in hindsight it wasn't worth getting bent out of shape over. More importantly I've met a fair few in the flesh from here when buying or selling and I can honestly say they've been some of the nicest most genuine people I've had the pleasure to meet, the problem is its easy to get carried away or misinterpret what was trying to be said on an internet forum and PW is definitely one of the better ones. I now enjoy a debate with someone who holds a different opinion to myself and sometimes learn a lot from it, if you get annoyed the best thing to do is take a deep breath and ignore it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie-fox Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 The trolls get banned in due time, The liers get cought out and no one listens to them.. All in all a great forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 (edited) I have real trouble understanding what (who) a troll is. Pray tell was Adge Cutler or Fisherman Mike a troll or someone with strong opinions and whom was always right and refused to listen to the opinions of others? Edited December 28, 2016 by Whitebridges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 I have real trouble understanding what (who) a troll is. Pray tell was Adge Cutler or Fisherman Mike a troll or someone with strong opinions and whom was always right and refused to listen to the opinions of others? No. He was just nuts. As far as I am aware (and this might be wrong) he didn't target specific people to rubbish their views/opinions purely because it was they that said it. A troll would target someone because of who they are, not exactly what they believe as such. Two people could receive very different responses from a troll - even if they believed exactly the same thing - it's just that he really dislikes one of them on a personal level, so wants to attack him AND the opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 I have real trouble understanding what (who) a troll is. Pray tell was Adge Cutler or Fisherman Mike a troll or someone with strong opinions and whom was always right and refused to listen to the opinions of others? No. He was just nuts. As far as I am aware (and this might be wrong) he didn't target specific people to rubbish their views/opinions purely because it was they that said it. A troll would target someone because of who they are, not exactly what they believe as such. Two people could receive very different responses from a troll - even if they believed exactly the same thing - it's just that he really dislikes one of them on a personal level, so wants to attack him AND the opinion. Yes, but he was an example of someone who would start a thread on a contentious subject without making any point purely in order to incite disharmony. Strike a match and sit back to watch the fireworks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Yes, but he was an example of someone who would start a thread on a contentious subject without making any point purely in order to incite disharmony. Strike a match and sit back to watch the fireworks. true. He did create and cultivate an environment perfect for trolling. Does that make him a troll farmer? His next username perhaps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 No. He was just nuts. As far as I am aware (and this might be wrong) he didn't target specific people to rubbish their views/opinions purely because it was they that said it. A troll would target someone because of who they are, not exactly what they believe as such. Two people could receive very different responses from a troll - even if they believed exactly the same thing - it's just that he really dislikes one of them on a personal level, so wants to attack him AND the opinion. I see. I'm wiser,thank you. He was a bit of a basket case but not a vindictive type. So,from what you've said a troll is someone who is vindictive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 its the wierdos like ditchman you need to watch out for....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 I see. I'm wiser,thank you. He was a bit of a basket case but not a vindictive type. So,from what you've said a troll is someone who is vindictive? Yeah. And actually, compared to some of the recesses of the internet, PW doesn't have anyone nearly as bad as they could be. Some trolling gets carried across forums and social media; someone could get trolled from forum, to facebook, over twitter etc. purely out of spite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Think I remarked about him on more than one occasion about him being a bit like Marmite, must admit he liked an argument but I never seen a post from him were he was rude or insulting, and some of his post did make me smile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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