kyska Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 Notts have never checked, I've moved house, moved cabinets. No response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godzilla Posted August 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 I should maybe have said when I started this thread that they came out the two previous times I've fitted a cabinet to look over it, hence the call to inform them. I'm happy enough to be left alone but just wanted to make sure I was well inside the law, It just seemed odd that from experience the system had got lax in this day and age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 It just seemed odd that from experience the system had got lax in this day and age. Why do you think it's lax? You've been issued a certificate to posess firearms, it's in your conditions to ensure they are safe and reasonably unobtainable by non certificate holders. Why do you feel the need to be checked? I'm happy they leave me alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeon Shredder. Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 In Manchester, they inspect the cabinet, check it is secured to the wall properly (with the correct size bolts) and that it can't be levered from underneath. May l ask what is the correct sized bolt for attaching a cabinet to the wall / floor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godzilla Posted August 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 Because I was under the impression, given by our previous FLO/FEO that they had to look over and ok security. As I said I wanted to be within the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 Because I was under the impression, given by our previous FLO/FEO that they had to look over and ok security. As I said I wanted to be within the law. It's not law that a second party check that you keep your firearms safely, they are your responsibility, that's written into the conditions on your authority to posess the firearms. I'm not digging at you, quite the opposite, we don't need any more intrusion from the authorities, if you are legal and in compliance with the conditions on your certificate there is nothing to comment. It's the whole reason I will not ring the police to say I'm shooting for example, I'm not anti police by any stretch, but I feel we should be left alone to go about our legal, responsible business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB525 Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 May l ask what is the correct sized bolt for attaching a cabinet to the wall / floor? Minimum 10mm diameter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 Why do you think it's lax? You've been issued a certificate to posess firearms, it's in your conditions to ensure they are safe and reasonably unobtainable by non certificate holders. Why do you feel the need to be checked? I'm happy they leave me alone. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 May l ask what is the correct sized bolt for attaching a cabinet to the wall / floor? I don't honestly know, but a good friend was advised to fit larger Rawl-bolts. I know, because he came round and got then bolts off me. They were either M10 or M12. I used M12 bolts for my own benefit. I didn't realise that there was a standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 Essex police all over this, I called them to let them know I had purchased and installed a bigger cabinet- few days later my FEO was here. Maybe that's why you have to wait for a year to get a grant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 I don't honestly know, but a good friend was advised to fit larger Rawl-bolts. I know, because he came round and got then bolts off me. They were either M10 or M12. I used M12 bolts for my own benefit. I didn't realise that there was a standard. There is no standard and no need for a cabinet. Security is all that is required. My cabinet is not even bolted to the wall. Its bolted to the one next to it and that to the next one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 I believe that GMP cite Home Office guidance about construction of cabinets and how they are secured. That guidance does exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 (edited) The whole situation of every force and every feo making it up as they go along is one of how it is and a total nonsense. Although it is stated about how you have to have a cabinet, it is only guidance.There is no fixed need for a cabinet that is mandatory. Security is all that is required. When you read through the answers to this thread it's surprising that a lot of people have the confidence to own or use firearms. Blind compliance with random made up rules without question can be a very bad thing. It has always surprised me about the pernickerty rules and yet you just walk out of the house with the tool in your hand. Over the years I have had many renewals and none of the visiting inspectors have asked any questions about the method or anything technical about the security in fact the last two inspections haven't even checked the storage or what guns I have in storage. I could have lost one and not been able to account for it for the past ten years and no one would be any the wiser if it hadn't turned up somewhere. PS I haven't lost any. Edited August 15, 2017 by fortune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveboy Posted August 16, 2017 Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 The way the FEO pulled on my cabinet I coud have used double sided tape and it would have passed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted August 16, 2017 Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 Because I was under the impression, given by our previous FLO/FEO that they had to look over and ok security. As I said I wanted to be within the law. Shotgun security checks by the FEO are not required by law. It is crystal clear that the it is the certificate holder who must ensure that their guns are secured against unauthorised access. The police do not have to check your security. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 16, 2017 Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 I am firmly of the opinion that once you have been vetted and granted a certificate, unless your circumstances change renewal should be automatic! And as there would be little or no admin work to do, it should be at minimal or no cost to the certificate holder. The police can now monitor individuals on an ongoing basis 24/7 so why these unnecessary duplicated checks on renewal?.....The only thing I can see that may be required is updated photographs......the police whine about the cost of processing certificate renewals and claim the cost of the work is not covered by the cost paid by the applicant!........and constantly lobby for a large increase (supported by some ignorant politicians!) but it is they who are causing the cost of renewal, by insisting on duplicating work already done for the original application! During the life of a certificate, If you commit a crime or are found to be medically (or otherwise) unsuitable to hold a certificate, the police will know instantly....and they can (and do!) act immediately in the interests of public safety...... So why do we have to suffer this officious bull **** ? The answer is it's a lucrative income stream that provides jobs within the regional chief constables empire......what happened to ten year certificates? The police won't agree to them because it would effectively cut their firearm departmental income by 50%..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novice Posted August 16, 2017 Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 I believe that GMP cite Home Office guidance about construction of cabinets and how they are secured. That guidance does exist. Correct. I got pulled up for using m8 rather than m10. To be fair it is in the guidance and while some would have pushed back, I was happy enough to address it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB525 Posted August 16, 2017 Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 Correct. I got pulled up for using m8 rather than m10. To be fair it is in the guidance and while some would have pushed back, I was happy enough to address it. My FEO said my m8 resin anchors were "about 10mm" and was fine. I'll use m10 next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted August 16, 2017 Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 Did you install it any differently to the old one they did inspect? I don't get why everyone wants the FEO to come round. The less I see of mine the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB1 Posted August 16, 2017 Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 I don't agree with "complacent", but you do have a valid point. I'm sure he meant 'compliant' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB1 Posted August 16, 2017 Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 I am firmly of the opinion that once you have been vetted and granted a certificate, unless your circumstances change renewal should be automatic! And as there would be little or no admin work to do, it should be at minimal or no cost to the certificate holder. The police can now monitor individuals on an ongoing basis 24/7 so why these unnecessary duplicated checks on renewal?.....The only thing I can see that may be required is updated photographs......the police whine about the cost of processing certificate renewals and claim the cost of the work is not covered by the cost paid by the applicant!........and constantly lobby for a large increase (supported by some ignorant politicians!) but it is they who are causing the cost of renewal, by insisting on duplicating work already done for the original application! During the life of a certificate, If you commit a crime or are found to be medically (or otherwise) unsuitable to hold a certificate, the police will know instantly....and they can (and do!) act immediately in the interests of public safety...... So why do we have to suffer this officious bull **** ? The answer is it's a lucrative income stream that provides jobs within the regional chief constables empire......what happened to ten year certificates? The police won't agree to them because it would effectively cut their firearm departmental income by 50%..... How would they know that "instantly" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB525 Posted August 16, 2017 Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) I am firmly of the opinion that once you have been vetted and granted a certificate, unless your circumstances change renewal should be automatic! And as there would be little or no admin work to do, it should be at minimal or no cost to the certificate holder. The police can now monitor individuals on an ongoing basis 24/7 so why these unnecessary duplicated checks on renewal?.....The only thing I can see that may be required is updated photographs......the police whine about the cost of processing certificate renewals and claim the cost of the work is not covered by the cost paid by the applicant!........and constantly lobby for a large increase (supported by some ignorant politicians!) but it is they who are causing the cost of renewal, by insisting on duplicating work already done for the original application! During the life of a certificate, If you commit a crime or are found to be medically (or otherwise) unsuitable to hold a certificate, the police will know instantly....and they can (and do!) act immediately in the interests of public safety...... So why do we have to suffer this officious bull **** ? The answer is it's a lucrative income stream that provides jobs within the regional chief constables empire......what happened to ten year certificates? The police won't agree to them because it would effectively cut their firearm departmental income by 50%..... How would they know that "instantly" In fairness, is reported a laptop stolen from my car at a temporary address on the Sunday. Monday morning, I had my FEO asking why is moved and bit told them and asking where my gun was. They even asked for proof that I'd lodged it with an rfd Edited August 16, 2017 by BrowningB525 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 16, 2017 Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 I am firmly of the opinion that once you have been vetted and granted a certificate, unless your circumstances change renewal should be automatic! And as there would be little or no admin work to do, it should be at minimal or no cost to the certificate holder. The police can now monitor individuals on an ongoing basis 24/7 so why these unnecessary duplicated checks on renewal?.....The only thing I can see that may be required is updated photographs......the police whine about the cost of processing certificate renewals and claim the cost of the work is not covered by the cost paid by the applicant!........and constantly lobby for a large increase (supported by some ignorant politicians!) but it is they who are causing the cost of renewal, by insisting on duplicating work already done for the original application! During the life of a certificate, If you commit a crime or are found to be medically (or otherwise) unsuitable to hold a certificate, the police will know instantly....and they can (and do!) act immediately in the interests of public safety...... So why do we have to suffer this officious bull **** ? The answer is it's a lucrative income stream that provides jobs within the regional chief constables empire......what happened to ten year certificates? The police won't agree to them because it would effectively cut their firearm departmental income by 50%..... How would they know that "instantly" How can the police tell instantly whether your car is taxed, insured, Mot'd?..........by computer! ..........you will be on the police computer as a SGC/FAC holder, you will be registered on the police computer if you are reported for anything or charged or found guilty of anything, you are (or soon will be) on your GP's computer as the holder of guns and they are required to flag up to the police if you become medically unfit to hold guns........computers work 24/7.....it is naive to think that such information/cross reference checks are not available at the touch of a button! Why do the police require Certificate holders to make declaration on renewal...they already know! Or can easily check the information you provide....That is why we must declare past convictions including motoring offences....they already know! but if we don't declare them they can use that as a reason for refusal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hod Posted August 16, 2017 Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) I'm in Scotland (Midlothian, just outside Edinburgh). Almost all FEOs are actual officers, some twisted logic meant Police Scotland sacked almost all the civilian FEOs to save money (no, me neither). I got a letter specifically stating any new cabinet had to be checked by an FEO prior to use. Frustratingly there seems to be a fair delay between notification and someone coming out - for what is realistically a 30 second job of looking at my cabinet and trying to pull it off the wall. I've no objection to the check, in fact I'm all for it, although it is yet another thing for the Police to do - and accordingly it either takes them a while or they don't do it. I'm well aware not everyone will be as conscientious or sensible as most of the cert holders I know are. Edited August 16, 2017 by hod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 Licensing cannot 'instantly' know if an otherwise mentally stable patient becomes unstable, I'm afraid. A chain of events is necessary before licensing even becomes aware; which comprises of the patient actually informing their GP that they are unwell ; the GP then informing licensing ( if the patient is indeed flagged as owning firearms ) and then licensing acting upon the said information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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